AT last a Sony VPL-HS10 Review

13-10-2002, 8:09 AM

Hi all found this review of the sony vpl-hs10
mmmmmmmmmmmm nice

well hope you all read it cuz i`m interested in this projector

i have a vpl-hs1 and will be getting ride of it for this baby but i will have to see it first

see ya all soon

Meridius

http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?w...=JAEN&wb_dis=2

13-10-2002, 2:57 PM

Can't say much for my understanding of Japanese but I'm pretty sure that link is broken - just a Japanese Excite standard message page.

Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for a review!

JohnS · 13-10-2002, 3:46 PM

Well I got the link to work after a while, seems to take forever for the page to load, maybe its doing the translating that takes time??

No VGA input, just dvi, component, svideo and composite, I was kinda hoping it would have dvi and vga.

13-10-2002, 5:15 PM

Why does it need VGA and DVI?, I have a DVI>VGA converter and Im sure you can buy them cheaply in the UK as ATI website confirms.

The review doesnt really make a lot of sense at times, poor translation.

13-10-2002, 5:22 PM

Sorry about that - patience is a virtue as they say!

I did eventually get the excite translation to work. It amazes me that Sony didn't use a DVI-I connector (surely no difference in price) - must be the same rationale for why they only put PJ-Multi connector on HS-1 (making lots of money out of accessory parts like the SIC-HS30).

Given that the PJ-Multi connections for R, G and B are shared with the component signals Y, Pr and Pb, I would hedge a bet that you could get a VGA to component and sync lead made up for little money and connect your PC to the component inputs plus the composite input (should be wired to the sync).

Alex.

13-10-2002, 5:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sunstealer
It amazes me that Sony didn't use a DVI-I connector (surely no difference in price) -Alex.

Radeon's with DVI support DVI-I. DVI-I (analog & Digital together) , DVI-D (only the Digital signal) and DVI-A (only the Analog signal) . DVI is the new interface for Digital flat panel LCD monitors and video cards. You can buy a DVI-D to VGA converter from most computer retailers.

These pictures help to explain how the Radeon which supports DVI-I (both analogue/digital signals) by way of either a DVI-D (digital signal) or DVI-A (analogue signal) connection. The Radeon VE is probably the cheapest card with a DVI-D port (£30 or so).

So the Sony HS10 does not use all the pins on your ATI Radeon DVI port because it only sends the digital signal to the Radeon. I couldnt quite work out in the review if you get a DVI-D to DVI-D cable to connect to your Radeon card.

/James

JohnS · 13-10-2002, 5:41 PM

Quote:

Why does it need VGA and DVI?

It would be nice to connect the PC via dvi for dvd and use something like the proV for sky etc.....I've not got far yet with getting decent results out of dscaler.

13-10-2002, 5:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Spicer
It would be nice to connect the PC via dvi for dvd and use something like the proV for sky etc.....I've not got far yet with getting decent results out of dscaler.

Why not just buy a VGA>DVI-D cable ?

JohnS · 13-10-2002, 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jrwood
Radeon's with DVI support DVI-I. DVI-I (analog & Digital together) , DVI-D (only the Digital signal) and DVI-A (only the Analog signal) . DVI is the new interface for Digital flat panel LCD monitors and video cards. You can buy a DVI-D to VGA converter from most computer retailers.

These pictures help to explain how the Radeon which supports DVI-I (both analogue/digital signals) by way of either a DVI-D (digital signal) or DVI-A (analogue signal) connection. The Radeon VE is probably the cheapest card with a DVI-D port (£30 or so).

So the Sony HS10 does not use all the pins on your ATI Radeon DVI port because it only sends the digital signal to the Radeon. I couldnt quite work out in the review if you get a DVI-D to DVI-D cable to connect to your Radeon card.

/James

Thats interesting, you learn something new every day.

JohnS · 13-10-2002, 5:51 PM

Quote:

Why not just buy a VGA>DVI-D cable

Cable swopping.

13-10-2002, 6:00 PM

Just setup dscaler

What dont you like about dscaler, works a treat even on my very old silent PC. SMP support is very good since the new 4.0x release.

13-10-2002, 6:08 PM

Quote:

Why not just buy a VGA>DVI-D cable ?

Because it won't work! Surely you cannot connect analogue VGA signals via a DVI-D interface precisely because, unlike a DVI-I or DVI-A interface, it lacks the appropriate pins for analogue R,G,B, and horizontal and vertical sync (the extra five pins missing on DVI-D but present on DVI-I).

I have a Radeon 8500 and it does come with a DVI-I to DVI-I or DVI-D cable.

The problem with the new Sony projector is that they only saw fit to provide a DVI-D connector therefore, you have to connect your analogue VGA sources such as a PC via the PJ-Multi connector which means buying an SIC-HS30 cable. That was the point being made by the reviewer in the Japanese article (although this may not be that clear in the translation).

Alex.

JohnS · 13-10-2002, 6:12 PM

Quote:

What dont you like about dscaler, works a treat even on my very old silent PC. SMP support is very good since the new 4.0x release.

Not that I dont like it but, in quick comparison so far between it and the proV I cant see a much difference in PQ but smoothness in pans is far superior on the proV. Its most likly my settings but I haven't had time to trawl the help files to move on with it. With my ae100 I dont see a massive benefit with a HTPC over the proV but I reckon I will with one of the higher res pj's like the HS10.

13-10-2002, 6:26 PM

Well dscaler will allow you have scale up to any HTPC resolution, does the ProV scale up to 1388x768?? ... would be very surprised for that money.

So to connect up the HS10 you would need a Radeon with a DVI-D to DVI-D cable like this for example http://www.cable4pc.com/dvi-836.htm or http://www.networkcable.com/pages/cbls/dvi.html etc

13-10-2002, 6:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sunstealer
The problem with the new Sony projector is that they only saw fit to provide a DVI-D connector therefore, you have to connect your analogue VGA sources such as a PC via the PJ-Multi connector which means buying an SIC-HS30 cable. That was the point being made by the reviewer in the Japanese article (although this may not be that clear in the translation).

Alex.

Looks like a 3rd party cable like the ones above are needed if you have a radeon card as ATI ship DVI-I DVI-I cable.

http://www.ati.com/support/connector...nnections.html

DVI-D to DVI-D is needed

13-10-2002, 8:18 PM

Exactly jrwood, there is no such thing as a VGA to DVI-D connector as DVI-D does not have the pins for analogue transmission and therefore Sony are going to annoy a lot of people who don't have digital video cards in their PC when all they had to do was include a DVI-I connector and solder on five extra pins (all the connectors are available on the PJ-Multi) at a cost of a few pennies.

Surely a DVI-I cable will plug into a DVI-D device just fine (the connectors are cross compatible) - that's the whole point of the cable. The DVI-D just lacks the pins for analogue transmission but the plugs and sockets still work fine with DVI-I devices and carry the digital information just fine which is really why Sony could have been more helpful and put a DVI-I socket on the projector and saved everyone a lot of cash on SIC-HS30 cables as the connector would then carry both digital and analogue signals. I can't believe Sony really need the money.

Cheaper alternatives are: try using the component inputs and a sync source such as the composite video in (not guaranteed because you don't know if Sony wire up the sync from the composite when the device is switched to component in) or make your own PJ-Multi breakout box as I did - see this post.

Alex.

13-10-2002, 8:42 PM

Why dont you just buy a DVI-D to DVI-D cable and plug it into your Radeon to HS10 ?.

DVI-D cables start at about £28 or so and gives a purely digital signal?, none of this digital>analogue>digital conversion. If you want more inputs than the standard component, dvi, comp, svideo then get the HS30 cable with even more inputs for £65

13-10-2002, 9:04 PM

My Radeon came with a little adapter for DVI-I to DVI-D, maybe they don't all?! It's all hypothetical anyway as I don't have an HS10!!

I think you're missing the point though which is that not everyone has a PC graphics card with DVI output. It would have been trivial for Sony to use a DVI-I socket (which will mate with DVI-D connectors as well) that would allow people to use the projector as a data projector without the need for the HS30 using a VGA to DVI-I or VGA to DVI-A cable. My point was only that this seemed to be totally unnecessary stinginess on Sony's part and I think they only did it to make people fork out a ridiculous £65 on a cable that probably costs less than £5 to manufacture.

Alex.

13-10-2002, 9:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sunstealer
My Radeon came with a little adapter for DVI-I to DVI-D, maybe they don't all?! It's all hypothetical anyway as I don't have an HS10!!

I think you're missing the point though which is that not everyone has a PC graphics card with DVI output. It would have been trivial for Sony to use a DVI-I socket (which will mate with DVI-D connectors as well) that would allow people to use the projector as a data projector without the need for the HS30 using a VGA to DVI-I or VGA to DVI-A cable. My point was only that this seemed to be totally unnecessary stinginess on Sony's part and I think they only did it to make people fork out a ridiculous £65 on a cable that probably costs less than £5 to manufacture.

Alex.

Why do you need to buy the HS30 adaptor?, unless you plan to use a VGA input?. Seems like you have DVI output on your Radeon so I would personally just buy a Lindy £25 DVI-D to DVI-D cable

. The Sony HS30 cable has quite a few inputs and its about 5 metres long, its about the right price compared to other similar commercial cables from other manufacturers.

If you dont have a DVI output on your graphics card then just pick up the new Radeon 9000 for £60 or so, or for the budget concious home cinema enthusiast the Radeon VE for £30.

13-10-2002, 9:40 PM

Sure people can always solve the problem by throwing money at it but my point was just - why didn't Sony use a DVI-I socket on the HS10 then people who wanted to input an analogue VGA signal (and there must be loads of people who might want to do this) could do it easily without having to buy the proprietary Sony cable (HS-30) by using a VGA to DVI-I or a VGA to DVI-A cable (either of which will plug into a DVI-I socket.

Personally, this is all an academic discussion - I do not have an HCPC or an HS-10 and have no plans to upgrade my VPL-HS1 in the near future as I am quite happy with my analogue sources at the moment. So the fact that I, personally, have a Radeon and a DVI-I to DVI-D cable is neither here nor there. I was just responding to John Spicer's original complaint that the HS10 has no analogue VGA signal input.

13-10-2002, 8:09 AM	#1
neo-uk Guest Posts: n/a	AT last a Sony VPL-HS10 Review Advertisement Want to Advertise? Hi all found this review of the sony vpl-hs10 mmmmmmmmmmmm nice well hope you all read it cuz i`m interested in this projector i have a vpl-hs1 and will be getting ride of it for this baby but i will have to see it first see ya all soon Meridius http://www.excite.co.jp/world/url/?w...=JAEN&wb_dis=2
	Quote

13-10-2002, 2:57 PM	#2
Guest Posts: n/a	Can't say much for my understanding of Japanese but I'm pretty sure that link is broken - just a Japanese Excite standard message page. Guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for a review!
	Quote

13-10-2002, 5:15 PM	#4
jrwood Guest Posts: n/a	Why does it need VGA and DVI?, I have a DVI>VGA converter and Im sure you can buy them cheaply in the UK as ATI website confirms. The review doesnt really make a lot of sense at times, poor translation.
	Quote

13-10-2002, 5:22 PM	#5
Guest Posts: n/a	Sorry about that - patience is a virtue as they say! I did eventually get the excite translation to work. It amazes me that Sony didn't use a DVI-I connector (surely no difference in price) - must be the same rationale for why they only put PJ-Multi connector on HS-1 (making lots of money out of accessory parts like the SIC-HS30). Given that the PJ-Multi connections for R, G and B are shared with the component signals Y, Pr and Pb, I would hedge a bet that you could get a VGA to component and sync lead made up for little money and connect your PC to the component inputs plus the composite input (should be wired to the sync). Alex.
	Quote

13-10-2002, 6:00 PM	#11
jrwood Guest Posts: n/a	Just setup dscaler What dont you like about dscaler, works a treat even on my very old silent PC. SMP support is very good since the new 4.0x release.
	Quote

13-10-2002, 6:26 PM	#14
jrwood Guest Posts: n/a	Well dscaler will allow you have scale up to any HTPC resolution, does the ProV scale up to 1388x768?? ... would be very surprised for that money. So to connect up the HS10 you would need a Radeon with a DVI-D to DVI-D cable like this for example http://www.cable4pc.com/dvi-836.htm or http://www.networkcable.com/pages/cbls/dvi.html etc
	Quote

13-10-2002, 8:18 PM	#16
Guest Posts: n/a	Exactly jrwood, there is no such thing as a VGA to DVI-D connector as DVI-D does not have the pins for analogue transmission and therefore Sony are going to annoy a lot of people who don't have digital video cards in their PC when all they had to do was include a DVI-I connector and solder on five extra pins (all the connectors are available on the PJ-Multi) at a cost of a few pennies. Surely a DVI-I cable will plug into a DVI-D device just fine (the connectors are cross compatible) - that's the whole point of the cable. The DVI-D just lacks the pins for analogue transmission but the plugs and sockets still work fine with DVI-I devices and carry the digital information just fine which is really why Sony could have been more helpful and put a DVI-I socket on the projector and saved everyone a lot of cash on SIC-HS30 cables as the connector would then carry both digital and analogue signals. I can't believe Sony really need the money. Cheaper alternatives are: try using the component inputs and a sync source such as the composite video in (not guaranteed because you don't know if Sony wire up the sync from the composite when the device is switched to component in) or make your own PJ-Multi breakout box as I did - see this post. Alex.
	Quote

13-10-2002, 8:42 PM	#17
jrwood Guest Posts: n/a	Why dont you just buy a DVI-D to DVI-D cable and plug it into your Radeon to HS10 ?. DVI-D cables start at about £28 or so and gives a purely digital signal?, none of this digital>analogue>digital conversion. If you want more inputs than the standard component, dvi, comp, svideo then get the HS30 cable with even more inputs for £65
	Quote

13-10-2002, 9:04 PM	#18
Guest Posts: n/a	My Radeon came with a little adapter for DVI-I to DVI-D, maybe they don't all?! It's all hypothetical anyway as I don't have an HS10!! I think you're missing the point though which is that not everyone has a PC graphics card with DVI output. It would have been trivial for Sony to use a DVI-I socket (which will mate with DVI-D connectors as well) that would allow people to use the projector as a data projector without the need for the HS30 using a VGA to DVI-I or VGA to DVI-A cable. My point was only that this seemed to be totally unnecessary stinginess on Sony's part and I think they only did it to make people fork out a ridiculous £65 on a cable that probably costs less than £5 to manufacture. Alex.
	Quote

13-10-2002, 9:40 PM	#20
Guest Posts: n/a	Sure people can always solve the problem by throwing money at it but my point was just - why didn't Sony use a DVI-I socket on the HS10 then people who wanted to input an analogue VGA signal (and there must be loads of people who might want to do this) could do it easily without having to buy the proprietary Sony cable (HS-30) by using a VGA to DVI-I or a VGA to DVI-A cable (either of which will plug into a DVI-I socket. Personally, this is all an academic discussion - I do not have an HCPC or an HS-10 and have no plans to upgrade my VPL-HS1 in the near future as I am quite happy with my analogue sources at the moment. So the fact that I, personally, have a Radeon and a DVI-I to DVI-D cable is neither here nor there. I was just responding to John Spicer's original complaint that the HS10 has no analogue VGA signal input.
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