[Endeavour]

I have read individual reviews and followed many related threads but am still undecided. I want to use a 2.4m 2.35:1 ratio screen (=1.8m for 16:9) at 4.5m projection distance. I would like to get an anamorphic lens but might have to start with the zoom method.

Just from what I have read it seems that, for my purposes:

HD1

• Better contrast
• More film-like
• Brighter
• Longer throw

AE1000

• Power Zoom & Focus
• Vertical stretch
• Colour control
• Cheaper
• More compact

I don't know anywhere to see them together. Has anyone demoed these projectors head to head? Are the picture quality advantage of the JVC big enough to outweigh the convenience benefits of the Panny?

[greentom1967]

I have not seen the panny, however, the picture
is absolutely stunning on my hd1

[Endeavour]

greentom would you be able to help me check something? I read on AVS forum that zooming has an effect on focus and shift. The implication for me is that if I wanted to zoom to utilise the whole 2:35:1 screen when viewing a letterbox presentation. I would have to go to the projector and refocus and realign it. Could you confirm this for me please? I have seen screens with multiple programmed stop points that might help.

AE1000 owners, does the same thing happen when zooming. Can a zoom and focus position be saved within the user custom settings?

[KelvinS1965]

Originally Posted by Endeavour

AE1000 owners, does the same thing happen when zooming. Can a zoom and focus position be saved within the user custom settings?

I haven't found a way to save the focus and zoom settings on my AE1000, but it only takes a few seconds to zoom using the remote and usually doesn't need refocusing either. I zoom onto a 2:35:1 area by not lowering the whole screen so the black bars are off the top & bottom, AKA: Poor mans CIH setup.

I've come to the conclusion that (for me) there is no point buying an anamorphic lens. This is because vertically stretching a 1080i/p HD DVD/BlueRay presentation then stretching it with a lens will cost a lot of money and result in a picture that is no longer 1:1 pixel mapped. I can't see the 'screen door' from more than a few feet away from the screen and I find the picture more than bright enough (I use a ND2 filter ATM until the bulb dims some more with use). The money I save on not buying a lens will go towards a HD disc player....I just don't know which one yet.

Also when I zoom out for 16:9 the image seems to be centred OK height wise, so I don't have to mess about adjusting the lens shift.

Of course I can't speak for the HD1...but they cost about twice what I paid for my AE1000 as I was lucky to get it from PureGadgets before the price went up.

[Endeavour]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

I haven't found a way to save the focus and zoom settings on my AE1000, but it only takes a few seconds to zoom using the remote and usually doesn't need refocusing either. I zoom onto a 2:35:1 area by not lowering the whole screen so the black bars are off the top & bottom, AKA: Poor mans CIH setup...

... I find the picture more than bright enough (I use a ND2 filter ATM until the bulb dims some more with use)

This sounds promising Kelvin. What's the screen size/throw/gain in your set-up? Do you view in blackout conditions?

[KelvinS1965]

Originally Posted by Endeavour

This sounds promising Kelvin. What's the screen size/throw/gain in your set-up? Do you view in blackout conditions?

120" screen (16:9 diagonal) lowered to show 2.35:1 so I'm not sure what diagonal it is on 2.35:1. Throw is 6 metres ATM until I sort out my DIY projector lift, then I can move it closer to allow more range to zoom out for 16:9 viewing. At 6 metres it is nearly fully zoomed 'out' ie this gives a supposedly dimmer image according to some review I read. The gain is 1.8. No curtains to the adjacent consevatory ATM so it's not fully blacked out. I did put some MDF up to cover the patio door as a test and this made the picture even better as the room was virtually a 'bat cave' bar the reflected light from the screen. Also we have light walls and cream leather sofas that reflect the light...I will repaint the walls a bit darker but I'm limited as to how dark SWMBO will agree to.

I don't like overly bright images for example I typically use my work laptop with the backlight fully down, which colleagues find strange....so maybe I'm not a good referance.

[Endeavour]

I was originally thinking of a lift but as the budget has come under pressure from other projects and bits of kit, I settled on the back of the room. The distance is 4.5m to where I would LIKE to put the screen. For a 2.4x1m screen this is a zoom of about 1.07x for 16:9 material. Not a lot of leeway if the joists turn out to have other ideas about where the screen will go It's way too far for my current TX200 which is a much shorter throw. Zooming for cinemascope material it goes to a more comfortable 1.25. I was going for a less gain because I have a secondary seating position at the side of the room. Despite no longer having to pander to the WAF, the kits in my lounge - so I think the coal bunker look is out. I will black out the windows but its a north facing room, so I need to keep the decor light.

The main problem is I need to keep the screen level above the only practical place to mount the centre speaker. This is about 1.3m from the ceiling. My 1m was allowing for a drop of 20cm + 5cm for the bottom border/batten. I am used to a pull-up screen, so I wasn't sure it would be comfortable watching an image starting right at the ceiling from 3.5m away - hence the ratio choice. I presume your image must be quite high when you have it rolled up for 2.35. How do you find that?

[Mr_Sukebe]

Just to add to this thread. I had a chat with a salesman earlier this week and asked about the HD1 vs the AE1000 as he sells both.
One interesting comment was that whilst the HD1 was awesome on HD material, that it was considerably worse than the AE1000 on SD material, and that he wouldn't recommend using the HD1 without also adding a GOOD scaler.
Any thoughts on that?

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Endeavour

I have read individual reviews and followed many related threads but am still undecided. I want to use a 2.4m 2.35:1 ratio screen (=1.8m for 16:9) at 4.5m projection distance. I would like to get an anamorphic lens but might have to start with the zoom method.

Just from what I have read it seems that, for my purposes:

HD1

• Better contrast
• More film-like
• Brighter
• Longer throw

AE1000

• Power Zoom & Focus
• Vertical stretch
• Colour control
• Cheaper
• More compact

I don't know anywhere to see them together. Has anyone demoed these projectors head to head? Are the picture quality advantage of the JVC big enough to outweigh the convenience benefits of the Panny?

How important is black level and image sharpness to you ?

This review comments on the HD1 in comparsion to other 1080 PJ's including the Panasonic.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/DLA-RS1/index.asp


AVI

[KelvinS1965]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe

One interesting comment was that whilst the HD1 was awesome on HD material, that it was considerably worse than the AE1000 on SD material, and that he wouldn't recommend using the HD1 without also adding a GOOD scaler.
Any thoughts on that?

I haven't seen a HD1, but I can confirm that the AE1000 with SD material is very good. You can see artifacts on such a large screen if you look for them, but I'm talking about things like edge enhancment that is encoded on the DVD as it varies from film to film. I have a limited number of HD films from BBC HD and only one that is 2.35:1 (Pirates of the Carribean). When I put that on then the image really is sharp and it is obviously better, but once I've gone back to a DVD or even the occasional TV (Freeview/sat) from HTPC I don't feel it is unwatchable. In fact I flicked between 'Hotel Babylon' on BBC One and BBC HD last night and the difference was noticeable, but the SD was perfectly watchable, just a little softer. Note that for these 16:9 programs I zoom the image smaller to fit the height on my 2.35:1 screen, but it's still about 6 foot wide. I think the fact that I chose to watch something off DVD rather than HD 'Hotel Babylon' says much about the quality of SD from the AE1000...when you consider that I like the program that is!

I spent some time last night comparing my Sony DVD at 576p to my HTPC using DVBViewer/NVidia Pure Video decoder and I have to say that it is only marginally better using the PC. Maybe a better graphics card than my ATI9600 might show a bigger difference? But this demonstrates that the upscaling by the AE1000 is still really good (although I guess my HTPC doesn't really compare to an external scaler).

I also did some more tweaking of the calibration for both sources: I've now found that using the 90% square on one of the DVE test chapters allows me to correctly set the 'Gamma High'. So I'm still learing how to get the most from this machine. I did actually sit and watch a DVD and just enjoyed the film after I'd done this tweaking...so that must be good news by my usual 'constantly fiddling' standards.

[KelvinS1965]

Originally Posted by Endeavour

I presume your image must be quite high when you have it rolled up for 2.35. How do you find that?

The bottom of my screen (including the 5cms black border) is approx 3' 3" (100cms) from the floor, but I sit approx 3.5 metres back on a normal height sofa. The top of the picture is about the same height as the top of a standard door. I don't find I'm straining my neck and believe me that if I was it would soon be altered.

The lift thing is definately going to be done on the cheap...in fact it will have to be as cheap as most ceiling mounts. If I get it sussed I'll post back (probably in the DIY section) how I've made it and where I get the parts from. ATM I'm just using it on a sideboard at the back of the lounge...it just misses my head with a little bit of lens shift!

[greentom1967]

Endeavour,

I am almost certain you would have to realign and refocus.

I will try and let you know.

[Endeavour]

Just to add to this thread. I had a chat with a salesman earlier this week and asked about the HD1 vs the AE1000 as he sells both.
One interesting comment was that whilst the HD1 was awesome on HD material, that it was considerably worse than the AE1000 on SD material, and that he wouldn't recommend using the HD1 without also adding a GOOD scaler.

Not too much of a problem for me. Most ordinary telly is watched on a plasma not the pj. DVD is upscaled by my DVD player or HTPC and I have SkyHD and a PS3.

Who's the dealer BTW?

How important is black level and image sharpness to you ?

This review comments on the HD1 in comparsion to other 1080 PJ's including the Panasonic.

That's the $64000 question isn't it - or in this case about £2000 The real answer is probably that I would only really know if I saw it. The reviews on both machines are almost uniformly positive. Hopefully, projector central will repeat their roundup to compare the new players like JVC and Epson.

The lift thing is definately going to be done on the cheap...in fact it will have to be as cheap as most ceiling mounts.

Sounds like our set-ups won't be that dissimilar. I need to get a new equipment rack which will be tall enough to clear the sofa when the PJ sits on top. Minimises the cabling too though I still have to get a line over to the plasma which will be on the wall behind the screen. I saw a company at Smarthome last weekend called Pure Theatre who were doing lifts for £750. First I heard of them and I don't know whether the Ae1000 would fit but it seemed quite good value.

Regarding watching normal TV on the HD1;

I run everything off a computer and happily watch all types of output. Not as sharp as HD-DVD obviously, but very watchable and miles better than your typical plasma/lcd flatscreen TV (none of those little blocks around footbal players' legs for instance)

What did you see (or not see) that makes the AE1000 better at normal TV?

[KelvinS1965]

Originally Posted by Endeavour

I saw a company at Smarthome last weekend called Pure Theatre who were doing lifts for £750. First I heard of them and I don't know whether the Ae1000 would fit but it seemed quite good value.

I'm thinking about a 10th of that price I saw one somewhere on the web that was about £1700, which is only £200 less than I paid for my AE1000.

But then I always was a tight b****r.

Also just to confirm that when zooming in and out for 16:9 I incorrectly said the image is central. Last night I checked and the picture needs adjusting with the lens shift. You can also move the picture using the remote and the picture can move up/down/left/right but I'm not sure if using this effects the image quality by scaling or whether it just cuts off some of the picture. In any case the range isn't enough from memory....

[Endeavour]

Pity about the shift, that evens things out a little with the JVC. Although I could get an anamorphic lens for the price difference. This would give a permanent focus/zoom setting and have an benefit on the brightness in 2.35:1 mode.

[KelvinS1965]

I was thinking about an anamorphic lens, but I talked myself out of it for the reasons stated on page 1 of this thread.

I reckon that once my system is finally setup I'll be able to drop the screen and go. Only 2 discs in my collection are 16:9..Sin City being one of them.

[Endeavour]

I use the screen for other things besides movies like gaming and HD TV series so I would have to swap over more often. The lenses are expensive, conspicuous and give additional mounting issues. Whichever PJ I choose and think it is sensible to try without first. It won't be too difficult to reach where I intend to have it. The main problem will be keeping the cat off it - she'll be thinking "Lovely, a new one of those heated cat beds."

[Avi]

Thought this might be of interest

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828298


AVI

[Endeavour]

Originally Posted by Avi

Thought this might be of interest

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=828298


AVI

Good review. This choosing business just doesn't get any easier...

[warbie]

Agreed. If anything reviews like that push me even more towards the extremes - budget 720p or HD1. I'd find it hard to spend the best part of 3k on a 1080p lcd or sim2 when just a little more cash will get the jvc.

How long do you guys reckon it'll be before 2k gets you the jvc, or something of similar performance? A few years?

[T0M]

Originally Posted by warbie

How long do you guys reckon it'll be before 2k gets you the jvc, or something of similar performance? A few years?

The thing is their is no new 'resolution' waiting round the corner. If there were of course it wouldn't just be a whole new display technology required but also sources (playes) and material (films), that's probably quite a way off.

So perhaps manufacturers will keep their prices higher on what they feel are premium models e.g. 1080 and so they won't drop at the same kind of rate, although saying that 1080 TV's are starting to come down!

Also, with all the positvie press about the HD1 and reviews stating it value for money compared to other manufacturers I can't see JVC hacking the price down anytime soon that only happens as sales dry up or better kit is released.

I will be interested to see Sony's next model in response to the HD1, I think that will then give an indication of whether JVC are truly ahead of the game or not.

Technology eh!

[VirusKiller]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sukebe

One interesting comment was that whilst the HD1 was awesome on HD material, that it was considerably worse than the AE1000 on SD material, and that he wouldn't recommend using the HD1 without also adding a GOOD scaler.
Any thoughts on that?

Yep. The processing of SD over HDMI has at least three bugs and one functional issue that we believe JVC are in the process of preparing a firmware update to fix.

1) 480/576p 4:2:2 suffers from a chroma error.
2) 480/576i is basically completely shafted (mega-scaling issue).
3) SD/HD colour decoder mismatch issue.
4) Waaaay too much overscan on all SD inputs.

Any of these may account for the SD issues. However, SD upscaling was excellent at the HD1 launch event.

[warbie]

Originally Posted by T0M

So perhaps manufacturers will keep their prices higher on what they feel are premium models e.g. 1080 and so they won't drop at the same kind of rate, although saying that 1080 TV's are starting to come down!

At the moment we're paying a premium for 1080p. Once it becomes the norm - shouldn't take too long - I reckon prices will come shooting down.

[warbie]

double post

[Avi]

Originally Posted by warbie

At the moment we're paying a premium for 1080p. Once it becomes the norm - shouldn't take too long - I reckon prices will come shooting down.

The problem is it's not just about 1080. I've seen several 1080 PJ's and the higher resolution doesn't always buy you best PQ even with HD source. All the other factors such as black levels, video processing, contrast etc all play an equally important role IMO.

AVI

[warbie]

and for me, but I feel that resolution has more impact on the price at the moment. I know quite a few people who are saving for a 1080p lcd purely because its 1080p.

[Endeavour]

What HiFi have a comparison in the latest issue (May). The Panny gets their vote over JVC by a nose. Pearl loses out because its behind on SD material followed by PA M20 & Sim2 Domino.

[warbie]

That sounds very dubious

*crosses What HiFi off reliable sources list*

If I had the cash i'd go for the jvc, no question. However, £1900 for the ae1000 seems to be an asolute steal!

I dont think there is any question (IMO and many others it would seem) that the HD1/RS1 is the better overall machine, but you do pay for it. Everyone needs to decide for themselves if it is worth the money over the Panny, or other lower cost PJ's.

It was a no brainer to me considering the HUGE native CR advantage of the JVC plus no DI (this is a GIGANTIC advantage IMO), better D65 light output, no smoothscreen (why oh why did Panasonic put this on a 1080p ), Gennum chip, user adj convergence, etc........Not that it is perfect (what PJ at ANY price is) but it is simply in a different class overall from the Panny IMO.