[RTFM]

I had the opportunity to assess a JVC HD1 for a couple of days and found it to be a very good projector in many areas, especially contrast, black level and shadow detail.

Gary Lightfoot came over to see it yesterday and again was suitably impressed. He brought along his Isco II anamorphic lens and we stretched the image with a DVDO VP50 and the results were very good.

However, one aspect of its performance had us scratching our heads and that was certain speeds of motion, whether it was someone moving in frame or the camera panning, seemed to introduce a blurring effect where you couldn't focus properly on the subject until the motion ceased.

Whether it's related or not I don't know but we had a problem with the end credits on HD DVD movies we looked at such as Batman Begins and King Kong. The credits were very juddery and with white lettering on a black background the credits flickered.

We tried a Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player directly into the HD1 via HDMI and also via a DVDO VP50 processor and still got the same artefacts.

Switching the Film Mode on or of in the JVC menu had no effect.

Any HD1 owners experienced this and if so have you found a way to cure it ?

[greentom1967]

jeff,

Did you see anyone pq improvement over the internal processor
using the vp50

[alandbush]

Originally Posted by RTFM

However, one aspect of its performance had us scratching our heads and that was certain speeds of motion, whether it was someone moving in frame or the camera panning, seemed to introduce a blurring effect where you couldn't focus properly on the subject until the motion ceased.

Whether it's related or not I don't know but we had a problem with the end credits on HD DVD movies we looked at such as Batman Begins and King Kong. The credits were very juddery and with white lettering on a black background the credits flickered.

I have a Lumagen HDP outputting to a JVC HD1 and am familiar with the, very subtle but distracting, flickering of vertically scrolling end credits.
This occurred when outputting 1080p/50 (the source being a SkyHD box) and I resolved the issue to my satisfaction by changing to 1080i/50.
I don't recall if I tried a PAL SD DVD before this change but I have not found the need to change it.
I have the Lumagen HDP outputting 1080p/24 for NTSC SD DVDs and have not yet noticed any flickering here.

Any blurring in the image that I have seen has been very infrequent, momentary and not distracting. I have assumed that this was a fault in the original camera work or a mastering artefact.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by RTFM

I had the opportunity to assess a JVC HD1 for a couple of days and found it to be a very good projector in many areas, especially contrast, black level and shadow detail.

Gary Lightfoot came over to see it yesterday and again was suitably impressed. He brought along his Isco II anamorphic lens and we stretched the image with a DVDO VP50 and the results were very good.

However, one aspect of its performance had us scratching our heads and that was certain speeds of motion, whether it was someone moving in frame or the camera panning, seemed to introduce a blurring effect where you couldn't focus properly on the subject until the motion ceased.

Whether it's related or not I don't know but we had a problem with the end credits on HD DVD movies we looked at such as Batman Begins and King Kong. The credits were very juddery and with white lettering on a black background the credits flickered.

We tried a Toshiba XA1 HD DVD player directly into the HD1 via HDMI and also via a DVDO VP50 processor and still got the same artefacts.

Switching the Film Mode on or of in the JVC menu had no effect.

Any HD1 owners experienced this and if so have you found a way to cure it ?

Looking at the Batman Begins (HD DVD) credits as I'm typing this post and they appear smooth. I have a Lumagen HPD in between the HD1/A1 and ouput is 1080p/24. Do you have a time stamp/scene ref for the "motion blurring" and I'll give a whirl on my setup.

The HD1 will not refresh a 60hz HD DVD or BD signal at a multiple of 24.



AVI

[Rob100]

Sounds like 3:2 judder to me. I assume the VP50 was outputting 1080p60?

Hopefully Chris (UrbanT) will read this as he's now using a Lumagen HDQ (1080p24 output) with the JVC using HD-A1 and PS3 a HD sources.

Rob.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Rob100

Sounds like 3:2 judder to me. I assume the VP50 was outputting 1080p60?

Hopefully Chris (UrbanT) will read this as he's now using a Lumagen HDQ (1080p24 output) with the JVC using HD-A1 and PS3 a HD sources.

Rob.

Should be the same results as with the Lumagen HPD (same HD processing). I've also got the HD-A1, PS3 and SkyHD going to the HD1. I'm really sensative to 3:2 judder and whilst many displays deinterlace correctly (film mode) they don't refersh at a mutiple of 24 once they've done this hence judder. The lumagen does a nice job converting the 1080i/60 to 1080p/24 and it looks very smooth on the HD1.

AVI

[VirusKiller]

Actually, sounds more like resolution pumping. Can't say I've noticed it on my HD1.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by VirusKiller

Actually, sounds more like resolution pumping. Can't say I've noticed it on my HD1.

Could be but like you I haven't noticed blurring with HD DVD. The title judder is just 3:2/60hz issue.

Have you heard anymore about a firmware update ?

AVI

[Gary Lightfoot]

The blurring was only on certain things like some faces when someone moves up and down when they walk, but fast moving scenes like in Grand Prix didn't have any obvious motion effects at all (not that we could see anyway).

The credit flicker on Kong was just that - a flicker. It wasn't deinterlacing but I'm not even sure it was resolution pumping since I've not seen that artefact first hand.

Everything else looked pretty top notch IMHO, and although marginally less sharp than an equivalent DLP and having less ANSI, it does everything else so well as a package I do now feel it's in the same ball park as a 9" CRT. If we can get higher gammas around the 2.5 mark we should hopefully see a further increase in image depth. An amazing pj at an amazing price.

Gary

[Rob100]

Originally Posted by Avi

The lumagen does a nice job converting the 1080i/60 to 1080p/24 and it looks very smooth on the HD1.

I use a HDQ to convert 1080i60 (HD-A1 and PS3) to 720p48 and certainly have no complaints. Likewise I'm very sensitive to 3:2 judder.

[kurtz]

Hmmm.. I've seen an artifact like RTFM's too. I see it as a kind of fast stutter (its not 60Hz stutter though). Some specific examples are:

• Fast & the Furious, the 'Racewars' day chapter 13. The two big security guards at the airfield gate seem to "vibrate" as the camera pans across them, and the whole chapter has a lot of shimmering pans back and forth across the airfield.
• Jarhead chapter 4, the scene where they are presented with their sniper rifles and the camera tracks down the table along each soldier in turn
• Terminator 3 chapter 3: the scene where the terminatrix arrives from the future - it opens on a road sign saying "Beverly Hills" and pans right to the shop window.

The credits shimmer a bit too.

However, I've known about the Fast and the Furious and T3 examples for some time on SD-DVD. I saw it back in the old days on a R2 superbit edition of TFATF, played on an SDI-modded Denon into a Lumagen HDP onto a Sony HS50 at 720p analogue. At the time I put it down to the Lumagen.

Then I got a Toshiba HD-E1 and a JVC HD1 and still saw it on the HD-DVD version of Fast & the Furious and the HD-DVD T3. I then applied the 24p firmware upgrade to the Lumagen, and though it reduced the stutter (because it was doing inverse telecine) it is still there somewhat.

Now, since I've seen it on two different players, on two different disks (HD & SD), on two different projectors, I was half-and-half putting it down to the Lumagen, but beginning to wonder if it was the transfer.

The thing that is starting to make me think it is not the Lumagen is that you are seeing it on a VP50, or a direct connection. Also certain movies don't show it; for instance the opening scene panning across the pyramids on The Mummy HD-DVD showed judder as expected before the Lumagen 24p upgrade, but now its fine and smooth at 1080p24.

I am convinced its not the actual film because I think the panning would introduce blur, but not judder. But maybe it is an artifact of the disk encoding? (Is this what resolution pumping is?)

RTFM: I take it these blurring effects do not show on a Sim projector?

In the US a number of people have observed a slightly different motion artifact. We are in the middle of our college basketball championships so many of us are watching a lot of basketball right now. These games are broadcast in 1080i.

The black and white strips of the referee's uniforms exhibit a color rainbow when the the stripes are a particular size and they move with relatively slow motion across the screen. There have also been reports of this rainbow effect in some scenes of black and white movies such as Casablanca.

Have any of you noticed anything similar in the UK?

[Avi]

Originally Posted by maddogmc

In the US a number of people have observed a slightly different motion artifact. We are in the middle of our college basketball championships so many of us are watching a lot of basketball right now. These games are broadcast in 1080i.

The black and white strips of the referee's uniforms exhibit a color rainbow when the the stripes are a particular size and they move with relatively slow motion across the screen. There have also been reports of this rainbow effect in some scenes of black and white movies such as Casablanca.

Have any of you noticed anything similar in the UK?

I notice an artefact when there is a very high contrast images i.e. bright white background with a dark black image in the foreground. The edge of the black image appears to have a halo. I'm not sure if this is MC releated but I don't see any MC issues with a 1080 crosshatch pattern. Its similar to the effect of I've seen with Y/C timing errors.

A good example is Casino Royale on BD. I use a PS3 outputting 1080p. There is a scene of Bond in his Casino bedroom silhouetted against a window (Chapter 10 01:25:11). Anybody else see this ?

EDIT: Looks like this is due to source as I see it on others non projection displays

AVI

[RTFM]

AVI,There's a shot somewhere in V.E. Montage of Images where there's a camera pan across some black railings which have a red leading edge all the time the camera is moving. I remember seeing this on the Sony VW series projectors.

Off topic but relevant. Has anyone got MI3 on R1 DVD? If so please look at the begining of chapter 8 where the stairs in the background a very "lively" for want of a better word.

Also look at chapter 11 where there is line twitter on the back of the trucks and the bridge railings go "haywire" as the camera zooms in and pans round on the trucks.

I have tried these clips on many different projectors and processors and they are always there which leads me to believe they are in the authoring of the transfer. I would be interested to know if these artefacts occur on HD DVD and R2 DVD.

[stephan285]

@RTFM its the same on R2 DVD i think the transfare is bad. No issues on HD-DVD. I am using a VP50 to the VPL-VW50.

greets

[Avi]

Originally Posted by RTFM

Off topic but relevant. Has anyone got MI3 on R1 DVD? If so please look at the begining of chapter 8 where the stairs in the background a very "lively" for want of a better word.

I've seen a number of PJ's that show atrefacts in MI3. There's the scene you mention and one a little earlier with a DHL Van next to the Vatican wall. Look out for moire in the wall. I don't have the DVD version but I do know the same artefacts show up on the HD DVD version with some displays. In fact we used this in the demo at PJ Hi Fi when comparing the HD1 and the Pearl. The Pearl had the processing artefacts the HD1 didn't.

There's also a steps scene in the Last Samurai HD DVD early on were Tom Cruise and two others walk up a long flight of stone steps to meet the emperor. On many displays it appears the steps are alive in the shot from a distance as the horizonal lines twitter.

I'll run MI3 HD DVD direct to the PJ and let you know what I see.

AVI

[Avi]

Originally Posted by RTFM

Off topic but relevant. Has anyone got MI3 on R1 DVD? If so please look at the begining of chapter 8 where the stairs in the background a very "lively" for want of a better word.

Also look at chapter 11 where there is line twitter on the back of the trucks and the bridge railings go "haywire" as the camera zooms in and pans round on the trucks.

I have tried these clips on many different projectors and processors and they are always there which leads me to believe they are in the authoring of the transfer. I would be interested to know if these artefacts occur on HD DVD and R2 DVD.

RTFM

Tosh HD-A1 direct to JVC HD1 - MI3 HD DVD @ 1080i/60Hz

1. Chapter 7 40:25 Test = Vatican wall on left of scene moire artefact in brickwork as camera pans

Observation = Very clear brickwork no moire artefact

2. Chapter 8 46:54 Test = Staircase appears to move/jump when camera pan as if alive

Observation = Steady with only slight movement. Looks the same in 1080p/24 (not as bad as on my other displays were it does look alive so I know how bad it can look!)

3. Chapter 11 - Line twitter rear bridge railing/truck

Observation = Watched the whole chapter but did not spot any artefacts around the truck/railings. Do you have a time ref ?

Hope this helps.

AVI

[RTFM]

Originally Posted by greentom1967

jeff,

Did you see anyone pq improvement over the internal processor
using the vp50

Tom

I did not have the HD1 long enough to run all the tests I wanted to so I can't really give you an honest answer.

Most of the artefacts I saw were disc related apart from the end credits I mentioned.On my dem D80, with or without the VP50, I saw the same MI3 issues I mentioned earlier but the end credits rolled smoothly.

[Phil Hinton]

I have a model on review at the moment and have also observed the credits problems, they flicker on all material so far from SD to HD DVD. I am also not sure exactly what is causing this but it is a constant so far on all material 50/60hz and on both sources I am using. I will update if I get to the bottom of what is happening. Otherwise I am in awe of the PJ at the moment, not a lot wrong to be honest.

[Avi]

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

I have a model on review at the moment and have also observed the credits problems, they flicker on all material so far from SD to HD DVD. I am also not sure exactly what is causing this but it is a constant so far on all material 50/60hz and on both sources I am using. I will update if I get to the bottom of what is happening. Otherwise I am in awe of the PJ at the moment, not a lot wrong to be honest.

Phil

Do you have any Blu-ray you can throw at 1080p ?

AVI

[X3ELS]

Not seen any of these issues?? very odd, watched about 4 HD DVD's at 1080p 60hz from an XA1. And 8 bluray runnin 1080p 24hz from the Sony BDP1.

[Mr.D]

Have not seen the credit flicker, 1080i/60 over component , 1920x1080p at 50 , 60 and 24 via DVI to hdmi (video levels). At 24 its smooth as silk but I'm not generally that bothered by 3:2 pulldown judder anyawy.

I do find DVI from an HTPC has what I can only describe as noise and slight aliasing( this might be the colourspace issues but I've yet to do in depth testing.)

DigiTV using a nebula tuner looks not very pretty (blocking , noise , banding) this might be down to transmission or the limitations of the hardware scaling on my lowly radeon 9800. Dscaler fed a digibox feed over RGB isn't much better. This might also be down to the panel showing up every inadequacy in the source but it didn't look anything near this bad at 1368x768 on my fathful sony hs20.

I can see me having to mess about with drivers and ffdshow settings and maybe even a new graphics card ....

HD-DVD over component is bowel loosening though.

Colourwise it looks close to D.65 but maybe a tad yellow. Hopefully I'll dabble with calman this evening.