Colorvision Spyder2

samhain · 12-02-2007, 2:35 PM

Hi All

Anyone use this and if so how have you found it?

There is a much cheaper express version. Is that sufficient as long as you use the free software available on the net or should you go for the suite

It seems that it wouldn't be used very often. Anyone care to loan out (fully insured of course)?

Thanks

Stu

Avi · 12-02-2007, 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samhain

Hi All

Anyone use this and if so how have you found it?

There is a much cheaper express version. Is that sufficient as long as you use the free software available on the net or should you go for the suite

It seems that it wouldn't be used very often. Anyone care to loan out (fully insured of course)?

Thanks

Stu

samhain

check out this link. This software is free can be used with several colour probes. I use the Xrite DTP94 cost about £110.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=56&pp=30

AVI

samhain · 12-02-2007, 4:41 PM

Thanks AVI.

Would prefer to gcheaper Spyder 2 express if tat's all I need. Anyone else?

Gary Lightfoot · 12-02-2007, 5:01 PM

I don't know how accurate these sensors are compared to each other, but when I compared the Spyder2 (from SpyderTV package) to the Colorfacts TR-1 it was close enough for hobbyist use IMHO.

According to one of the other threads on avs all the Spyder2 probes are much the same, so it seems the Spyder2 Express package should be OK for what you need. You could buy it and then sell it on again if you can't get one loaned out (I was loaned one to test).

Gary

Avi · 12-02-2007, 5:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samhain

Thanks AVI.

Would prefer to gcheaper Spyder 2 express if tat's all I need. Anyone else?

From page 1 of the link

"Colorvision Spyder2:
Pros: the cheapest colorimeter. It may be labeled as "entry level" but it's an accurate probe just perfect for the calibrator on a budget. Totally supported.
Cons: the slowest, especially in dark patterns. Also inconsistent at those low IRE levels.
Price: the colorimeter (hardware) is part of several Colorvision packages. So it starts at $79 msrp in Spyder2 Express.

Xrite DTP-94 (AKA Monaco Optix):
Pros: quite fast, it is a very accurate colorimeter. It even has recalibration (internal offset calculation based on the temperature). The most recommended by the ColorHCFR team. Totally supported.
Cons: more expensive than Spyder2 and discontinued in a few months, still one of the best.
Price: from $219 msrp in Monaco Optix Xr.

Gretag Macbeth/Xrite/Pantone Eye-One Display2/LT:
Pros: since Xrite and Gretag Macbeth merged this is supposed to be the replacement for the DTP94. Probably as good as the Xrite. Now fully supported.
Cons: also more expensive than Spyder2.
Price: included in several packages. From $170 msrp in Pantone Eye-One Display LT.

Gretag Macbeth Eye-One Pro:
Pros: really accurate, unlike the others (which are filter-based) this is not a colorimeter but a spectrophotometer. As it's name implies this is a more professional tool (needs to be recalibrated regularly). Totally supported.
Cons: really expensive, not necessary better than a good filter-based colorimeter in real world calibrations.
Price: did I say expensive? From $1095 msrp in Eye-One Beamer."

AVI

Mr.D · 12-02-2007, 5:36 PM

Found the Spyder2 compared well with a philips colour analyser and a minolta spectrophotometer.

The Calman software compensates to a degree for the innacuracy/long read times towards black.

I'm very happy with the spyder2/Calman combo.

Mark Haywood · 12-02-2007, 7:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.D

I'm very happy with the spyder2/Calman combo.

Me too.

Neil Davidson · 12-02-2007, 7:47 PM

The Sypder2 sensors all share a hardware design and so should all work identically. The difference comes from the calibration of the actual sensor itself.

I haven't dealt with the Colorvision (PC tools) side of DataColor very much but my impression is that the sensors are calibrated on a batch basis ie one is measured then the resulting calibration files are downloaded to the rest of the batch. Some are very accurate and some are less so but all or OK for domestic use.

The new ColorFacts 7.0 brings with it the release of the Spyder2 Platinum which is a hand selected and individually calibrated Spyder2 probe which will be accurate enough for almost any application. An upgrade is available for existing ColorFacts users but it remains to be seen if the meter will be available to purchase on it's own.

Neil

Gary Lightfoot · 12-02-2007, 7:49 PM

Hi Neil,

The CF 7 upgrade cost seems a tad expensive (around £1400?), especially since Milori sold it off and we lost the forum and immediate support etc. There are a few things I'd like to see fixed in CF6 but that looks unlikely now.

Gary

Neil Davidson · 12-02-2007, 9:28 PM

Gary - who gave you those crazy upgrade figures?!

SW only upgrade is €99 + VAT
Full upgrade to CF7.0 accessories package is €450 + VAT

What support all you should need to do is call Nuno directly?

Neil

Gary Lightfoot · 12-02-2007, 10:34 PM

Hi Neil,

I saw that price on a link recently - glad to hear it's a lot lower!

I guess I was basing support on the old Milori forums which never rematerialised when it was taken over by Datacolor.

How do you go about getting the upgrade, and what does the accessories pack include? Any links?

Thanks

Gary

Onyxia · 13-02-2007, 3:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avi

samhain

check out this link. This software is free can be used with several colour probes. I use the Xrite DTP94 cost about £110.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&page=56&pp=30

AVI

Hi avi, where can you get the xrite? I have the spyder2 at the moment and find it quite good, but then I'm just starting and don't really know my way around the HCFR software just yet. Is Calman better than the free program?

Mr. Wilby · 13-02-2007, 7:36 AM

Can anybody recommend any UK suppiliers for any of these products that are at a reasonable price? Or is it better to import from the USA?

Would be quite interested in getting something that can calibrate my LCD computer monitor and a PJ, if there is such a beast...

samhain · 13-02-2007, 8:28 AM

I found a few sites in the UK that sold the spyder2 so you won't have a difficulty.

What I need to know is that if you buy one in the UK with it measure PAL or doesn't it really matter?

Gary Lightfoot · 13-02-2007, 6:58 PM

It doesn't matter - it just measures the light so you can use it for any display and colour system, though you may have to remove the filter grate for some - I can't remember which, but I think you'll know when you see the results - the colours will be well out if the filter should be on and isn't when you measure it. You can leave the filter on for DLP projectors IIRC

I like the HCFR program though I haven't used it in anger yet (you can input readings manually and see the results so I've done that to see the results of using different gamma calcs - something CF doesn't have). I'd like to do a side by side comparison with it and Colorfacts to see how it compares, but I'll have to buy a Spyder2 to do that.

Gary

Tempest · 13-02-2007, 8:23 PM

You can't use this with a projector!

Neil Davidson · 13-02-2007, 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempest

You can't use this with a projector!

You can use a Spyder2 to analyse a projector quite easily.

Neil

Gary Lightfoot · 13-02-2007, 10:56 PM

Indeed you can - that's how I compared it to the Milori TR-1 colorimiter using Colorfacts (used both on the same laptop/software).

Gary

Tempest · 14-02-2007, 12:03 AM

Right ok......

I'm obviously stupid here, so how do you use this to check a projector.

As you can't put it onto the screen to LOOK at the light (light you can on a TFT or CRT) I can only guess you turn it around so it's on the screen but facing forwards with the light shining into it?

but that can't work can it???

Gary Lightfoot · 14-02-2007, 12:10 AM

You have it facing the projector and the software does the rest to model the readings.

You could set it up to read from the screen, but you have less light coming from the screen so low level readinsg are more likely to be inaccurate. What you can do with some of the software packages is to use a 100% full white field and take a reading from the screen, then use those readings to offset what it reads directly from the pj. That way you get more accurate readings that are taking the screen/room into account by the offset.

What software are you using?

Gary

15-02-2007, 5:36 PM

Gary, a number of people on AVS USA have had pretty good success with the automated SpyderTV Pro software. I think you said earlier as well that it's preety could short of a professional calibration.

You come across as very empathetic to the more casual enthusiast than some of my country men. If you were an average enthusiast (if there is such a thing

), would you recommend its more brainless approach to begin or get their probe and some other software? To quote you:

"What you can do with some of the software packages is to use a 100% full white field and take a reading from the screen, then use those readings to offset what it reads directly from the pj. That way you get more accurate readings that are taking the screen/room into account by the offset."

Pros Cons? Thanks, Lyle

Avi · 15-02-2007, 5:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot

You have it facing the projector and the software does the rest to model the readings.

You could set it up to read from the screen, but you have less light coming from the screen so low level readinsg are more likely to be inaccurate. What you can do with some of the software packages is to use a 100% full white field and take a reading from the screen, then use those readings to offset what it reads directly from the pj. That way you get more accurate readings that are taking the screen/room into account by the offset.

What software are you using?

Gary

Gary

I picked up an Xrite DTP94 a little while ago but have never used it with a PJ. Could you explain (idiot guide) how from the lens/screen this thing should be positioned ? I also downloaded the colour HCFR software if you familiar with that ?

Thanks

AVI

Gary Lightfoot · 15-02-2007, 6:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LylePDX

Gary, a number of people on AVS USA have had pretty good success with the automated SpyderTV Pro software. I think you said earlier as well that it's preety could short of a professional calibration.

For the money it's accuracy close enough IMHO considering how inaccurate many displays are, so you'll be closer than you were to start with at least. The one I had was close to the Colorfacts calibrated sensor I use but I couldn't compare either with a spectroradiometer. Judging by those who have it's not far out. You could easily start off with the Pro and once you've got the hang of things try the free HCFR software and see what results you get with that. For the money it's a great way to get started IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LylePDX

You come across as very empathetic to the more casual enthusiast than some of my country men. If you were an average enthusiast (if there is such a thing

), would you recommend its more brainless approach to begin or get their probe and some other software? To quote you:

"What you can do with some of the software packages is to use a 100% full white field and take a reading from the screen, then use those readings to offset what it reads directly from the pj. That way you get more accurate readings that are taking the screen/room into account by the offset."

Pros Cons? Thanks, Lyle

The Spyder2 probe will work with the free software as well as the Pro software, and if that has the offset option then that will be very useful. I think the HCFR will have more options and model the results closer to something like Colorfacts or CalMAN.

Are you asking for the pros/cons of the Pro vs free software or of taking screen readings?

Gary

Gary Lightfoot · 15-02-2007, 7:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avi

Gary

I picked up an Xrite DTP94 a little while ago but have never used it with a PJ. Could you explain (idiot guide) how from the lens/screen this thing should be positioned ? I also downloaded the colour HCFR software if you familiar with that ?

Thanks

AVI

Hi Avi,

I think the sensor should be placed close to the screen at a slight angle so that it's getting a good reading and isn't being masked by it's own reflection. You'll know if things aren't right because the greyscale will look wrong after you've made adjustments (there could well be an error at lower IREs because the amount of light it gets will be reduced, but the higher ones should be OK).

I've had a look at the HCFR software and manually put readings into it to see how it works (I don't have a compatible sensor), and it looks pretty useful to me. I'd need to try it with a Spyder to see what results it gives though. I did do some Colorfacts charts for someone in the past with the readings they got from a Spyder sensor so we could compare them with an Excel spreadsheet modeling tool, so if you do a search you can practice putting those figures into the HCFR software and see how it turns out compared to the CF ones and the Excel ones.

Gary

15-02-2007, 9:36 PM

Gary thanks.

I was asking how one does what you suggested with the other software.

"What you can do with some of the software packages is to use a 100% full white field and take a reading from the screen, then use those readings to offset what it reads directly from the pj. That way you get more accurate readings that are taking the screen/room into account by the offset."

Gary Lightfoot · 15-02-2007, 11:08 PM

Some software has a 'training' facility so you can offset the readings. Sometimes it is used for training one meter to another (Colorfacts for example), and some have a specific screen reading option for offsetting direct readings (CalMAN). I'm not sure if HCFR has this facility but I wouldn't be surprised if the program writers didn't add this if they were asked.

Gary

samhain · 16-02-2007, 12:23 PM

looks like I am getting mine ISF'd so won't need it for the time being but could be useful as a checking tool

Mad Monk · 03-03-2008, 4:12 PM

Gents

I am looking at pulling the trigger on this Syder 2 Pro

http://www.amazon.co.uk/ColorVision-...bs_sw_h__img_3

The express version is around £30 cheaper but it doesn't mention calibrating a projector, just TV's and monitors. Surely both are similiar units or light recording devices?

If anyone could help me out and let me know which tool would be best suited to a complete novice who has only ever calibrated using the DVE disc. I have only choosen the Colorvision brand as it seems to be cheap and readily available (I have the week off so I fancy giving this a go ASAP)

If anyone can recommend an alternative at a similiar price I'd appreciate it, it has to be user friendly though.

Thanks
Indy

jopper · 04-03-2008, 3:47 PM

Hi Folks,

I too am on the look out for a DIY way of calibrating my PJ and LCD TV from both an HTPC source, DVD recorder & Arcam DVD Player. If I bought the Spyder 2 Pro package, I would be missing the DVD to calibrate my players, but if I bought the SpyderTV package I would not be able to calibrate my PJ. Any suggestions from anyone?

Mad Monk · 05-03-2008, 2:38 PM

I did a bit of reading and am undecided between the Display LT and Syder2 pro. OTOH I have seen some very cheap Pantone Huey's and may just go for one of those as they can be picked up for under £50. I'm just not sure if they are any good for PJ's

It may make sense to buy a cheaper calibration meter just in case all of this calibration stuff is too hard for the home user

15-02-2007, 5:36 PM	#21
LylePDX Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Colorvision Spyder2 Gary, a number of people on AVS USA have had pretty good success with the automated SpyderTV Pro software. I think you said earlier as well that it's preety could short of a professional calibration. You come across as very empathetic to the more casual enthusiast than some of my country men. If you were an average enthusiast (if there is such a thing ), would you recommend its more brainless approach to begin or get their probe and some other software? To quote you: "What you can do with some of the software packages is to use a 100% full white field and take a reading from the screen, then use those readings to offset what it reads directly from the pj. That way you get more accurate readings that are taking the screen/room into account by the offset." Pros Cons? Thanks, Lyle
	Quote

15-02-2007, 9:36 PM	#25
LylePDX Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Colorvision Spyder2 Gary thanks. I was asking how one does what you suggested with the other software. "What you can do with some of the software packages is to use a 100% full white field and take a reading from the screen, then use those readings to offset what it reads directly from the pj. That way you get more accurate readings that are taking the screen/room into account by the offset."
	Quote