[YamahaClavinova]

I don't know if it's the same for you guys, but being an owner of a projector ( an Epson TW10h, a non-HD Ready fairly old technology PJ yet surprisingly good!), i find that each time i watch a film on the PJ (63" screen) and then just afterwards turn my 20 year old Philips 20" CRT back on, i find myself being amazed by the quality of the image on my humble TV!

The blacks look amazingly dark, the colours vibrant and the image really sharp and detailed in comparision to the PJ image. In short, i think to myself "if only the image cast by the PJ was as good as my TV!" I would even go as far as to say the TV image looks almost HD in comparison to the PJ!

Now, i do realise that my Epson PJ has a fairly low 480p resolution and a quoted contrast of 800:1 so it doesn't surprise me the image does not match up to a CRT TV. So, what i was wondering is do you guys with more modern/expensive PJs ever find yourself thinking the same thing when you turn off your PJ and turn back on your TV?

How would, say, the image of a Z4 comapre to a normal TV? Or even a sony RUBY etc???

Maybe you guys could shed some light on this?

[gandley]

a good CRT set has an extremely high contrast ratio and a pretty much true black, this is always going to be the holy grail of digital displays. you do have to be kind though that an image of the same resolution blown up 5x+ times will always look a little bit poorer unless you have invested in serious scalers to do the job correctly. the bigger the image the easier it is to spot flaws in the source.
Imagine a small photo of yourself and then enlarge it ten times, well you get the idea.

Add HD to a projector then the extra resolution will reduce the effect. but it still does not have the black level etc but i think we are getting there with some PJs starting to do a good job though the best do cost a fair bit of money.

[Gary Lightfoot]

As Gandley says, Low on/off and low ANSI contrast will make a big difference to image depth and detail, and a smaller projected image will look sharper and more saturated compared to a larger one from the same projector. Set-up can make or break how a projector looks so that might help to improve the image by setting things like the white and black levels and using a gamma that is right for the room conditions.

Any ambient light in a room will degrade the image, and in some cases make it look very poor indeed, so to get the best out of it you will need total light control with dark walls/ceiling or a very bright projector and a grey screen with some gain. Resolution is just one part of the package and you can get lower resolution projectors that are set up well looking better than higher res projectors that aren't.

Gary

I really only see better blacks on CRT TV's. You never ever see the same detail, at least I don't, on a 20" CRT TV. Just pause something on both and compare. Individual hairs, eye-lashes, pores on characters faces. You never see that on a 20" TV. That said, I am not a HT snob. You can watch a widescreen movie and enjoy it on a small TV just as easily. It's like reading. You don't see every detail, so your imagination is a little more active. Plus, with a small TV, almost the entire scene is in your fovea, where-as, with a large screen, there is much that is in your near-peripheral vision. It's a different experience. I do admit that larger isn't always better though. I think a good 100" 16:9 is more than adequate. I find my Hitachi TX200 720p picture highly detailed and sharper, way way sharper than a 20" CRT TV, but the black levels are high (ie dark grey) and the contrast isn't as good.

[Oakleyspatz]

I use a high contrast Graywolf screen and have Sky HD and to me, the image knocks spots off my CRT image. Blacks look comparable (in total darkness), detail is considerably higher with HD on the 8ft projected screen and overall, the Infocus Screenplay 7205's image is every bit as good, and in many ways better than my Panasonic CRT.
Here are some screenshots which give some indication. The smaller images are my 32" CRT with my 8ft Graywolf above.

[YamahaClavinova]

Thanks for your replies so for.

So with HD sources and, of course, a HD PJ, there is more detail in the picture of the projected image. But for standard SD stuff do you notice lack of detail (dieregarding the black level) compared to a TV?

I also find that the quality of the DVD image itself can have a rather strong impact on the image quality on my PJ. A lot of fine detail is lost (not that there is a lot of fine detail on my 480p Epson anyway) and a TV seems to be more forgiving on the poor source than y PJ.

I wish i had a better PJ to be able to compare it to CRT with my own eyes.

[Oakleyspatz]

Yes, the problem with a large image is that any faults are magnified so a grainy DVD will look like it's snowing on an 8ft screen although it may not be too noticeable on a TV.

Projectors love HD, they really like DVD and they can live with TV but they will punish bad signals and reward good ones in equal measures.

We are really spoilt living in the noughties. Back in the 90's home cinema fans had to project with VGA 4:3 res projectors, 200:1 contrast ratios and sources that consisted of VHS and if you were really lucky, Laserdisc. Laserdisc was still way short of DVD in image quality so now with our 1080p projectors, 15000:1 contrast ratios, HD sources etc. etc. we really don't know how good we've got it!

CRT's last technological leap was with the flat screen whereas digital projection just keeps getting better and better with every year.
I feel confident in saying that for the cost of a 36" CRT 4 years ago, you can now buy a projector that would put your local cinema to shame, let alone your humble CRT TV but what you put in determines what you get out and that is even more true when you are talking image sizes measured in feet and not inches.

[Oakleyspatz]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

I use a high contrast Graywolf screen and have Sky HD and to me, the image knocks spots off my CRT image. Blacks look comparable (in total darkness), detail is considerably higher with HD on the 8ft projected screen and overall, the Infocus Screenplay 7205's image is every bit as good, and in many ways better than my Panasonic CRT.
Here are some screenshots which give some indication. The smaller images are my 32" CRT with my 8ft Graywolf above.

Now with pics!!!

[gandley]

does the graywolf come in a bigger size than 92ins or is that as big as they get?

[Pecker]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

CRT's last technological leap was with the flat screen whereas digital projection just keeps getting better and better with every year. I feel confident in saying that for the cost of a 36" CRT 4 years ago, you can now buy a projector that would put your local cinema to shame, let alone your humble CRT TV but what you put in determines what you get out and that is even more true when you are talking image sizes measured in feet and not inches.

I totally agree with that. Yes, CRTs have blacker blacks, but the problems with CRT displays far outweigh this - geometry on even the best, and best set up 32" CRT was nothing short of criminal.

Not only does a projected home cinema image compare favourably with the cinema, you don't get chavs in hoodies talking on their mobiles at home.

Unless the in-laws come round for tea, of course.

Steve W

[Oakleyspatz]

Originally Posted by gandley

does the graywolf come in a bigger size than 92ins or is that as big as they get?

It comes in a 106" size too for about £150.

See: http://www.cvsmedia.co.uk/shop/produ...729fd685db32cb

[gandley]

Originally Posted by Oakleyspatz

It comes in a 106" size too for about £150.

See: http://www.cvsmedia.co.uk/shop/produ...729fd685db32cb

Thanks for the link, is this screen ok to use with a ceiling mount as i was thinking of going with the dalite hipower, but i loose most of the gain because i would be out of the optimum angle, does this screen reject ambient light like the hipower though?

Sorry to be off topic by the way.

[Gary Lightfoot]

This screen is also retroreflective like the Hi Power, so you'll lose a lot of the gain advantage the further you are away from the pj.

There is a thread over on avs where I think they give the gain and angles etc, so you may be able to work out how much gain you'll be getting. If you only get around 1.1 gain, it'll be similar to the original Firehawk, but with less hotspotting.

Gary

[gandley]

Great info as usual Gary, thanks.

I really would like to get a screen with some gain but i just cant drop the projector from the ceiling anymore, i guess its about 6ft 10ins high from the floor (lens that is). and about 18ft from the screen, lens is level with the top of the image. screen =110 diag. i guess im 15ft from the screen.

eye level when sitting is about 3 and a half feet, or dependent on how much beer i have had

will a high power work or not do you think, i dont mind just getting half the gain i just dont want to see a dark image and find my matt white looks brighter

[Gary Lightfoot]

Hi Dustin,

I think you need to be sitting at an 18 degree viewing angle or less to get 1.1 or greater gain from the Hi Power. Not sure what that equates to in feet and inches, but a bit of trigonometry might help.

I think this is the gain/angle relationship for the Optoma grey screen:

0 ----- 1.4
5 ----- 1.13
10 --- .92
15 --- .63
20 --- .43
25 --- .36
30 --- .33
35 --- .31
40 --- .29
45 --- .27
50 --- .27
55 --- .26
60 --- .26

I'm trying to find the table for the HP but no luck just yet...

Still can't find it, but this might be an interesting read (good pics and even a video!):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1808&page=1&pp

Gary

[gandley]

ahh thats why they teach it at school for eh? (trig that is)

thanks for the link, checking it out now.