Just trying to get an overall feel for it. It's between the Z4 and the Panasonic PT-ae900, and I'd like the Z4 for it's sharper image. Unfortunately, I can be bugged by the small things in stuff. I'll hopefully be projecting in an 80" image (70" wide) and I'll be sitting about 9 feet from the screen. What are the chances I'll notice any SDE? I'll use this mainly for movies and games.

I'd really like you Z4 owners to give me your SDE experience, or lack thereof. What image are you projecting, and how far do you sit from the screen, and if you notice any SDE.

[Jeff]

With average eyesight you would need to be around 2.5 x screen width distance away not to notice SDE.

[paul1967]

Ok I have a Z4 and a 96" screen and sit 12ft away , I'm new to this whats SDE please.

paul1967

[fallwood]

Originally Posted by Jeff

With average eyesight you would need to be around 2.5 x screen width distance away not to notice SDE.

2.5X screen width is a bit over the top , you have to really look to see the screen door on my Z4 from 6ft away , dont get me wrong you can see it at 6ft but you really need to be looking for it , at 10 ft its completely non existant (yes I have got good eyesight before you ask ).

[fallwood]

Originally Posted by paul1967

Ok I have a Z4 and a 96" screen and sit 12ft away , I'm new to this whats SDE please.

paul1967

If you cant see it dont worry about it, screen door effect is a name for the structure of pixels that makes up the image, in the olden days when lcd pj's had lower res you could see the individual pixels that made up the image and it looks a bit like a screen door , get right up to the screen and you will be able to see the individual pixels.

Its not really an issue now as the modern HD LCD panels have a much higher fill rate therefore smaller pixels with smaller gaps betweeen them, standard res DLp's also suffer from "screen door" but DLP users prefer to call it visible pixel structure for some reason .

[PJTX100]

Originally Posted by fallwood

2.5X screen width is a bit over the top .

WAY over the top in my opinion.

1.5x should be fine with the D5 panels, perhaps slightly less. 2.5x you may as well buy a plasma.

[Anim]

6 foot width pic, so 1.5 x is 9 foot away which is exactly what you have worked out.

Screendoor is the black area between pixels (they arnt touching each other) that when zoomed in from the tiny panel size to 6 foot shows a grid pattern on the screen. The higher the resolution then the smaller the pixels cramed into the same screen area so the pattern is even harder to see. With a newer 1280x720 res projector the distance you need to sit away is less than the older generation of projectors that used less pixels.

So you should be fine at 1.5x unless you just watch sunny sky images all day which is where the effect comes out the most (light scenes where the pixels are fully on).

But if you are seriously worried then you need to demo.

Anim

[just wondering]

I sit 9 foot back from a 8 foot screen and i can't see the screen door effect on a z4

[ELV]

You can see it if you look for it specifically,my screen is 74" diagonal and i sit approx 10 feet away and you do notice it on white images but again if you don't look for it you won't notice it,it's a bit like the Ford windscreens with the de mister in, look at the picture as a whole not focus on the parts. Colors on screen are no proplem it's just the white parts with maximun contrast.

Originally Posted by Anim

But if you are seriously worried then you need to demo.

Not sure if I can do that, since none of the places around me carry the Z-4. Anyone around Arkansas mind letting me come up and see their setup?

[squibbly]

After being pushed into LCD due to be allergic to DLP and also buying blind, I steeled myself for all the things that these forums say is wrong with LCD: vertical banding, dead pixels, screen door effect.

I've seen no evidence of the first two after 3 months and 170 hours of viewing. As for the screen door effect, well that may have been a fair term in the early days of LCD, but watching at 1.5 times and more, unless you are an eagle eyed pedant, with 20/20 vision and an axe to grind with LCD, it's just a non-issue. Believe me, I notice the lines between pixels on my 27" CRT more at 1.5x distance than my Z4 (and I've tested this!). It's perfectly viewable at 1x, actually, but if you look for it at that distance you will see it.

[kesey]

Spot on squibbly. My experiences with the Z4 are the same as yours: no sign of VB, or of moribund pixels. SDE...no sign unless you go so close to the screen that your eyes will not feel happy with the reflection of brightness.

The Z4 is a great machine, we're having loads of fun with it.

Originally Posted by squibbly

After being pushed into LCD due to be allergic to DLP and also buying blind, I steeled myself for all the things that these forums say is wrong with LCD: vertical banding, dead pixels, screen door effect.

I've seen no evidence of the first two after 3 months and 170 hours of viewing. As for the screen door effect, well that may have been a fair term in the early days of LCD, but watching at 1.5 times and more, unless you are an eagle eyed pedant, with 20/20 vision and an axe to grind with LCD, it's just a non-issue. Believe me, I notice the lines between pixels on my 27" CRT more at 1.5x distance than my Z4 (and I've tested this!). It's perfectly viewable at 1x, actually, but if you look for it at that distance you will see it.

[rdundas]

9 feet from an 80" screen in totally blacked out room, No screendoor and a Loooooove it !!!!!!

[cyberheater]

If screendoor (or the chicken wire effect as I like to call it) is an issue. Gentle defocusing will help. Just enough to close the inter pixel gap. Instant diy "smoothscreen".

[squibbly]

Originally Posted by rdundas

9 feet from an 80" screen in totally blacked out room, No screendoor and a Loooooove it !!!!!!

Indeed, this is the first recorded incidence in 20 years of me falling head over heals in love with an electronic consumer durable since I bought my silver Aiwa cassette walkman (as used by Marty McFly in Back to the Future). It's just a good job it's orifi are too small

[paul1967]

I did have a magnola paint wall as a screen, not screen door , painted wall today matt white guess what on white pictures screen door will have to play with mixes or can someone recommen a screen 3m wide .
paul1967

[PJTX100]

Originally Posted by paul1967

I did have a magnola paint wall as a screen, not screen door , painted wall today matt white guess what on white pictures screen door will have to play with mixes or can someone recommen a screen 3m wide .
paul1967

Better the screen, better the clarity, more chance of seeing the pixel structure.

Sit a bit further back or make the screen a bit smaller. Or revel in the size/clarity and remember you'll see more pixel structure with a standard def DLP.

If LCDs a few years back had the pixel fill of modern LCDs the phrase SDE would not even have been invented. The pixel structure would just be accepted as part and parcel of the picture delivery as people seem to do with DLP. AFAIC SDE is now a defunct term.

[Kalos Geros]

Hmmm, I'm managing to get decent removal of SDE on my 480p Hitachi by slightly defocusing while upping the sharpness to 4 or even maximum 5 from default 3...regardless, there is always some visible scanline occuring in vertical pans, not very distracting really...CRTs viewed from 1.5-2 times screen width have even worse SDE-the reason is that each picture element consists of three RGB elements placed side by side...remember that in modern LCD PJs there are 3 LCD panels, one behind the other so each pixel's color is actually a result of successive RGB mixing as light passes through each LCD panel while the end result is just 1 pixel, not 3 like on a CRT...