[Zag]

Seen this over at avsforums for a few days now. Some interesting specs and initial comments from a projector technican copied below.

Makes an interesting read...

LCD
Resolution: 1280 x 720
Brightness: 1600 ANSI lumens
Contrast: 5000:1
Lamp life 3,000 hours
Manual zoom F 2.1 - 2.8
Automatic iris
Horizontal and vertical lens shift
HDMI input
Weight 5.2 kg (that's 11.5 pounds for the metric-impaired)
Price: 1,890 euros

Source: French forum homecinema-fr, citing the September catalogue of a large French home theater equipment retailer.

(Frank456 comments from avsforum)

' The 600 epson is one heck of a projector. Reps from our company have already seen this projector in action over in asia.

2 members of our sales team ( both are hometheater fanatics and are DLP owners ) have had demos of the tw600 and this is what was said:

Contrast ratio is a huge leap over comparable 720p LCD units on the market right now.

Fill factor improvements are remarkable. ( This is coming from a person who owns the sharp XV-Z12000), a highly regarded high end dlp with a calibrated contast ratio of over 3600-1 ( advertised at 5000-1 uncalibrated ).

Bright and punchy with excellent color reproduction and intensity.


Great scaling capabilities.

The major advances in LCD technology in the last 2 years had never ceased to amaze me. No rainbows, no headaches, no eyestrain, heck- no problem.

Best part of all is the continuing low price for the performance factor that LCD projectors are showing.

Oh and by the way, epson continues to under-rate there contrast ratios as a measured 6000-1 was the result of our techs findings. ( This is with ACCURATE test equipment ). Rumors of CR ratings over 7500-1 could not be confirmed so it remains to be seen what reviewers will find once the projectors find there way into capable hands.

Boy do I love working in this field '

[Voo]

Interesting specs but isn't 1600 lumens a bit too bright for home cinema? I'd like to avoid the need for sunglasses while watching a film.

[wassap]

Originally Posted by Voo

Interesting specs but isn't 1600 lumens a bit too bright for home cinema? I'd like to avoid the need for sunglasses while watching a film.

Just makes the PJ more usable in different light conditions, im sure it prolly has a 'home cinema' mode with lower light output anyway.

[Voo]

Originally Posted by wassap

Just makes the PJ more usable in different light conditions, im sure it prolly has a 'home cinema' mode with lower light output anyway.

I'm currently using a PT-AE200 with 700 lumens which is admittedly a bit dull and i'm looking for something with a bit more (but not too much) oomph. I've read somewhere that around 1000 to 1200 lumens is optimal for home cinema but as you say, there are probably alternate modes which reduce the light output. In any event, I won't cross the Epson off my shopping list just yet

Cheers,

Voo

[dapex]

Wow!!!!!

[phillfyspoon]

With zero screendoor, 3000:1 contrast with iris off, very low response time, no rainbow effect and very bright images how can DLP compete once these take off?

[Anim]

When calibrated doesn't the lumen output usualy drop by more than half the rated spec?

My ikkle AE100 bursts into tears when somebody lights up a fag so I would welcome a 1600 lumen pj, maybe its the 2000 hours on the bulb thats causing it to dim more than i remember. The Epson range all seem to have that little extra amount of light over competition for daytime viewing which I think is a good thing.

I have no money and want a new projector and it sucks

Anim

[dapex]

I would welcome the extra brightness, my current PJ (old sanyo thingy) has 1200 lumens and is good even with strong ambient light but it only has 400:1 contrast. The thought of the lumens with the contrast sounds very very good to me.

The next month or so is going to be interesting.

I seem to remember the shoot outs last time were just between the Z3 and the 700, this time it seems it could welll be a bigger fight between the Z4, 900, TX200 and the TW600!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The way I see it, the consumer has to be the real winner

[cyberheater]

Those contrast numbers might be achievable in a black cave but you stick even a small amount of ambient light in there and it will drop to 1000:1 contrast ratio of less.

Still. Seems like a cracking PJ. I wonder how DLP will compete.

[Zag]

PRESS RELEASE - A FEW MORE DETAILS..

New Epson EMP-TW600 Projector
Posted by Admin on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 03:02 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEERBUSCH, Germany, Sept. 2, 2005 - The high end surround system has been selected or is already installed - yet the right projector for stunning cinema experience at home is missing. The high end system should feature high contrast ratio, sufficient brightness and the best projection technology! Is this enough? What about a special cinema filter? A real 16:9 format? Perfect resolution? Future-proof connectivity? "Moving" lenses for perfect alignment? All this in one system? Of course! The new Epson EMP-TW600 provides highest viewing pleasure. Easy-on-the-eye through 3LCD technology and an appealing design. The right "partner" for the ultimate home cinema is available in shops priced EUR 1,999* as of September 2005.

The HD ready** label demonstrates that the Epson EMP-TW600 is ready for the future. Thanks to the fully digital HDMI input and a resolution of 720 pixels ensuring "High Definition" reproduction, the digital "tomorrow" already takes place today with the Epson top-of-the-range model. Moreover, the Epson EMP-TW600 is extremely flexible without compromises. Seven pre-defined colour modes ensure adequate configuration for every environment. The "Dynamic Mode" provides the right image in bright and "Theatre Black" in dark rooms. The Auto Iris Optical System controlling light intensity of the lamp enables contrast ratios of 5,000:1. Thus, clear colours and detailed grey scale gradation are taken for granted. Using the new 135W E-TORL lamp*** brightness of up to 1,600 ANSI lumens is provided. Hence, optical special treats are now possible.

The lens shift function provides the perfect solution for more variable installation sites. The choice is yours where to place the Epson EMP-TW600 considering a hundred per cent height and a fifty per cent side correction. The high end projector is equipped in case the so-called great cinema takes places in a relatively small room. A diagonal image of 160 cm can be achieved from a distance of 2.5 m.

The Epson EMP-TW600 also features the proven 3LCD technology of the new D5 series. It ensures a broad colour range and is easy-on-the-eye providing a consistent, flicker-free image.

"The EMP-TW600 is currently Epson's best home cinema projector", says Rainer van de Weyer, Senior Product Manager Visual Instruments at Epson Deutschland GmbH. "Outstanding features ensure that the state-of-the-art device is optimal for all striving for the best. A viewing experience of the crystal clear images and the vibrant colours projected is a must. It provides the big screen experience in such a realistic manner that one is tempted to touch the shoulder of the movie star and ask for an autograph.

EMP-TW600 - Key features
High End projector for home cinema enthusiasts
3LCD technology for brighter images, higher colour accuracy and improved grey reproduction
Brightness of 1,600 ANSI lumens thanks to 135 W E-TORL lamp (Epson Twin Optimized Reflection Lamp)
High image quality with a resolution of 1,280 x 720 pixels
Auto Iris function enables contrast ratio of 5,000:1
HDMI, video, YUV S video, RGB and Scart interface
Exclusive Cinema Filter technology for improved image quality
Seven colour modes (Dynamic, Living Room, sRGB, Natural, Theatre, Theatre Black 1, Theatre Black 2) ensure perfect reproduction irrespective of light conditions
Horizontal as well as vertical lens shift function
10 bit colour processor for greater definition and softer transition
Realistic 16:9 reproduction for genuine home cinema feeling
Automatic format settings
Backlit remote
1-1.5 optical zoom
Available as of September 2005
Priced: EUR 1,999* incl. VAT
* recommended retail price including VAT.

** the HD ready label was introduced by EICTA (http://www.eicta.org) to distinguish HD signal compatible products

*** Epson Twin Optimized Reflection Lamp

Source: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messa...81/158736.html

Just been to the Whathifi show in london, Epson had a stand showing off this projector, I was gob smacked at the image quality, the contrast ratio 5000/1 for an LCD projector !! you have got to see it to believe it, they were selling the at the show and for £1300 you even got a free electric wsf screen!!! bought mine, told should recieve it on tuesday or wednesday can't wait!
.........the website is www.eseller.co.uk , you can get the show price on this site for the next month ...well done Epson!!!

[PJTX100]

I think you'll be one of the first on these forums to take one of these home, we'd all be interested in your views I'm sure. Are you upgrading from an existing PJ? Did you get a chance to see the Panasonic / Hitachi / Sanyo alternatives? If so it would be interesting to hear what you thought were the relative merits of each...PJ

[Penfold73]

A Japanese contributer on avsforum had a shootout with the TW600, Z4 and AE900 and surprisingly found the TW600 to be the dimmest of the three when calibrated. Also the iris implementation is very different from the rest as is slowly closes in dark scenes (about 10 secs slow closure).

Reviews in general have been mediocre. I think it's a stop gap projecter for Epson and the really killer LCDs with C2fine are not far away.

[cinema_gav]

Saw this projector first hand at the What-Hi-Fi show last weekend, and it was EXCELLENT.

My jaw hit the floor when I realised the massive, bright 10ft display of Spiderman2 in 720p was coming from an LCD proj costing £1299! Infact the guys were throwing in a free 1.5m electric WS screen for free also! Beat the Infocus 7210 (costing £3000+) hands down. Awsome.

I see no reson too chase £3000 DLP HD ready models anymore.....get an Epson TW600! I am saving up now!

A few questions though, techies may know....what is 3/2 pulldown technology? And will my NTSC US DVDs look as good as UK PAL DVDs? Will they be displayed smoothly even though the 25/29 fps difference exists? I notice the new Panny AE900 features 3/2 pulldown (whatever it is) but there is no mention of this on the TW600.

Cheers.

Guys, I also saw he TW600 at the show. In fact I am sitting here looking at eseller's hand out, doing research and trying to decide. I had just done a google search, which brought me back to the forum.

I have to agree, whether the other comments are legit or not, it looked great. Eseller had a HD picture running over vga cable (not digital) to the TW600 and projected about 20 feet to a huge screen. It looked so good in fact I am considering canceling the order for the planned 55" plasma and going projection.

Let's see how the research plays out.

[DEANO-B]

Cinema Gav - Don't take it personally, there just having a laugh! I myself never make a joke at anyones expense on these forums !

[cinema_gav]

The odd joke is all part of the fun, but we are here to learn about the technology I thought, so we can make the right decision on which kit to get.....

I had a look at the Screenplay 5700 and 7210 and I find the rainbow effect very distracting. I also found it tiring to watch. The difference with LCD from what I have seen so far, is a more relaxing image to watch....much more cinematic. I guess you need to spend 12,000 to get a 3 Chip DLP to solve the rainbow problem on DLP, or wait for the new I-COS thing?

Anyone else who has a screenplay like to comment?

[DEANO-B]

If you suffer from the RBE then LCD is obsviously the way to go. I personally would only go for the Epson 600 or Sanyo Z4 due to the fact they have a good 3 year warranty. The Epson has only had 1 review which I have seen, and it didn't look too promising. If you are thinking of buying go demo these two machines, and with there only being two you can give them a really good test.

Hello!
I saw TW600 two weeks ago here in Finland. It was connected to HTPC with VGA cable. I was very impressed! We watched little LOTR and some HD clips. Sweet!!

At the moment i have TW10H and i will "upgrade" to TW600 if i can save some money...

[cinema_gav]

Where is a good place in the uk to get a demo of some projectors such as the epson and the z4? After seeing the epson at the show, I am indeed keen to compare, perhaps with some of my own test DVDs, is Sevenoaks Hifi any good? Or could anyone suggest another decent location to do a side by side comparision?

thanks

[DEANO-B]

Originally Posted by cinema_gav

is Sevenoaks Hifi any good?

is Sevenoaks Hifi any good?

Try Benji at http://www.discounttv.co.uk/homecinema.php a forum sponsor who is very competitively priced, and a very good (and patient) salesman!!

[andersos]

Cardan - do you know when it will be available here in Finland? Multitronic.fi had 5/12 until today when they changed availability to "not confirmed".

Originally Posted by andersos

Cardan - do you know when it will be available here in Finland? Multitronic.fi had 5/12 until today when they changed availability to "not confirmed".

I have also heard it should be here in begining of the December. Hope it stays..

Few guys in the DVD Plaza have the PJ already...

[cinema_gav]

Anyone managed to compare black levels and sharpness between the Z4 and the tw600 yet?

And thanks for the tip, will give the guys at discount tv a call.

where is the cheapest place that this can be bought and can I buy it with the VAT excluded price?

[dapex]

got to say I had very high hopes for this, but I'm a bit surprised at just how quiet it has all gone...

[Penfold73]

I don't think Epson gave this model much attention as they are about to nail the competition with C2Fine.

[Gary Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by cinema_gav

A few questions though, techies may know....what is 3/2 pulldown technology? And will my NTSC US DVDs look as good as UK PAL DVDs? Will they be displayed smoothly even though the 25/29 fps difference exists? I notice the new Panny AE900 features 3/2 pulldown (whatever it is) but there is no mention of this on the TW600.

Cheers.

3:2 pulldown is a name used to how they convert 24 frames into 60 fields of US tv - they run at 60hz so they needed to get the 24 frames repeated with the first frame repeated 3 times, the next frame twice, third frame 3 times etc. If done well can look reasonably smooth. As for PAL NTSC differences, although theoretically PAL should be better due to higher resolution, it depends on how well the disk was authored and how well the display upscales the source signal into 720.

Gary

[Penfold73]

Spot on Gary, allow me a rant about PAL transfers...

Film is shot at 24 frames per second, but when it's shown in the cinema the shutter on the projector operates at 48 frames per second. So each frame of film has the shutter pass in front of it midway giving the illusion of a 48 frame per second display. So although you see 48 "flashes" per second, there are only actually 24 individual frames being shown with each one interrupted by a shutter pass.

Proper PAL transfers to DVD take the original 24 fps of the film and speed it up slightly to 25 fps (approx a 4% increase in speed) and then split the frames into two interlaced fields to give 50i for TV display. This is much more satisfactory than the US method as it gives better motion, but it does reduce the running time of the film and introduce a slight increase in pitch in the soundtrack.

One example of a dreadful PAL transfer is the Anchor Bay release of "Withnail and I". Not only is it non-anamorphic, but the PAL version is a descendant of the US NTSC release and uses a bastardized 50i obtained from the 60i US version. Look at the appalling motion stuttering in the scenes when they are heading up in the Jag to Penrith on the motorway. Unforgivable. Someone PLEASE release a decent transfer of this film, it's legendry. If push comes to shove I'm going to buy a copy of the 35mm and pay for a proper transfer myself.

[cinema_gav]

Thanks for the help!