Thinking of selling .. need advice

digisocialist · 19-02-2005, 7:27 PM

O.K. It's been a couple of weeks since I got all of my equipment (bar the speakers which still haven't arrived

). Anyway, I am starting to regret what I have done.

I have posted in this forum because the main reason for me thinking of selling is the fact that I am now seeing the 'rainbow' effect on the 4805. The family are all saying they don't know what I'm on about, but for me I'm afraid it's spoiling the enjoyement.

In addition, I am now starting to think that I may actually only really want 2 ch stereo.

Here's my dilema. Do I try and sell the 4805 on these forums, in which case I am bound to make a loss (though it's only 2 weeks old and has about 10hrs on it, therefore is mint) and try and get an LCD for the same price? I would hope to achieve £950 for the PJ so I suppose it's a question as to whether a suitable LCD replacement could be had for that value. The wife is not going to stomach me paying out more.

Also, because Castle Compacts are made to order I'm not sure whether I could cancel them. What do people think? I have not deposit on them and have payed outright for my other kit but I would feel a bit bad for the dealer. Why would I cancel them? Because if I could, I would then consider taking a hit on the 2805/2910 and selling these to then concentrate on 2ch.

The wife is majorly annoyed with me (especially after I nagged and spent months researching). I'm really not sure what to do. If people think I'm in with a chance of getting a good price for brand new kit on these forums and think I could cancel my speakers, then I will do a full system sell. If not, then I will probably just sell the PJ and look for an alternative.

Please.. your wise words fellow enthusiasts.

Bristol Pete · 19-02-2005, 7:52 PM

mmmmm, what a dilemma.

Here is my advice. Speak to your dealer. Explain about the problems you are having with the Infocus. I am sure that they may be able to do something for you - however, as you point out, you may need to stump up some more cash for an LCD machine like the Z3, AE700 or HS50 - if they stock or can get them.

As for cancelling the speakers, again speak to them. Suggest that 5.1 is not right for you at the moment and would like to discuss two channel options available to you but still buy from them.

Personally, I would keep the Denon gear as it is very good at two channel and in the future you may wanna go 5.1 and so on. You will still need a DVD deck to.

I know its easier said than done but do speak to your dealer. They are only human and most are only too aware about the problems we can face with Home Cinema as some, but not all are fans themselves.

Hope this helps, if even a little

Captain Benefit.

**UrbanT** · 19-02-2005, 8:05 PM

I'm just sorry to hear about your problems.

If you've got £950, I'm sure something like an Hitachi TX100 would be in your reach, or wait for something to come up 2nd hand with a few hours in the classifieds.

digisocialist · 19-02-2005, 8:57 PM

Thanks for your support guys. Yes, it is a real dilema. The wife reckons I should hang in there and see how things pan out. We're hardly using the PJ because I'm put off with it but the wife wants to watch everything on it! Typical. I'm wondering whether I'm just throwing money away... the Denon is capable of a lot and literally I only have 2 speakers on it atm... I'm not even using it for switching between TV/PJ because I don't know how to!

I'll see what others have to say...but thanks for your support. It kind of makes me feel a little better that I have options. Captain.. thanks for making me feel lke I have good gear too... it's easy to loose perspective and think one has spent money in the wrong area's. If I don't make use of the video switching, then I'm going to regret not getting a plain old stereo amp... I suppose maybe an issue I have is that (other than the PJ) I'm simply not using the system I do have to it's potential.

Digi

Piers · 19-02-2005, 10:22 PM

Presumably you auditioned a 5.1 system before buying, so know that for movies (and indeed with the receiver that you have chosen) the sound will be at its best with the 5 speakers plus sub. Stick with what you have ordered and once all has arrived you shouldn't be disappointed.

Rainbows are a different matter - try to ignore them (OK I know it is easier said than done for some folk - but others have suggested that you can "train yourself" to ignore them). If you can't, then the PJ has to go.

The Denon receiver is able to output to a TV and projector but probably not at the optimal quality for both (but don't get stressed about that - both will be good).

You have got a good DVD, good receiver, have ordered decent speakers (even if they haven't arrived yet!) - hang in there mate - don't go selling the lot at a loss right now - flameproof suit on for the guys that hoped for the ultimate bargain on the classifieds!

Supernatural · 19-02-2005, 10:32 PM

Sell your 4805 on here. Keep the rest - 5.1 with decent speakers and amp - with your new projector will be the bees knees.

Paul

PJTX100 · 19-02-2005, 10:42 PM

In the early days of surround sound, NICAM etc, I remained very unimpressed - and stuck with Stereo. I listened to some very strange and muddy music from "inferior" surround sound systems back then, and was confident with my decision.
DVD and the 5.1 effect of Dolby Digital etc have now made me a convert. I do listen to stereo music now, but it's the minority. Decent DVD players spitting out the digital signal into a decent digital amp open up a whole world of intriguing surround sound capabilities. Yet, they give the option to instantly revert back to stereo if you have the chance.
Hence, my advice is stick by your 5.1 kit, and enjoy the flexibility it gives.
As for the Infocus, I've seen some people say you can learn to live with the rainbows. For me, the PJ has been the biggest single step forward in my Home Cinema setup. If you can't live with the 4805, cut your losses and sell (or PX?) for an LCD. Remember, you could have spent 3 or 4K on a plasma.
Sorry you are having problems, but stick with the faith!
...PJ

Bristol Pete · 19-02-2005, 11:11 PM

Actually, I have the same amp as you and I use a Denon 2900 to listen to two channel which is how I prefer my music. However, for movies 5.1 is where it is at. Surely a decent home cinema amp is better than an average 2 channel amp?

How bad is the rainbow effect for you. Do you think you have been influenced by the forums? Are they making you ill.

With regards to putting SKY through the amp, you can do, but you will need to source an RGB to component box so you can send a decent picture to the PJ via the amp. It may be worth posting in the amp forum as there are some experts to help you sort this out. By the way, RGB > component switchers are often up for sale in the classifieds.

Keep your spirits up, it can be sorted.

Cap

digisocialist · 20-02-2005, 1:02 AM

Wow! Thanks guys. You've all made me feel a whole lot better. A combination of factors has been putting me on a downer but you have picked me up a little. There's been some real flaming of 5.1 recently and a lot of people suggesting 2ch is really the only way for music, and I agree...but as I have not yet got my 5.1 up and running, I may yet be impressed. I did demo and was impressed, hence the decision to purchase.. things do seem different however once back in the home.

The rainbow is not bad enough to make me ill and mostly I don't see it. I usually only see it in very dark bits or in the 1st 15mins...then it seems to settle, so I guess my eyes do learn. I'm not getting headaches or sickness so it's not that bad.

At the moment I have component feed directly from the 2910 to the PJ. I have optical from 2910 to 2805. I have S-Vid from 2910 to TV. So the amp is only providing sound at the moment. What I want to do is have both the PJ & TV connected to the Amp so I can interchange. I'd certainly like to get TV fed through to PJ when decent films are on terrestrial. I will need a component cable to go from 2910 to 2805 before I can move PJ & TV onto 2805.. but I'm not sure whether I can do what I want to do until I do it.

I'll stick things out a while guys. Thanks for making me feel a bit better. I was really getting down thinking I'd made a huge mistake. I'm loving my Spacemen 3 & early 60's folk (Fotheringay, Fairport Convention etc ) atm and really wanting to bring out my 2 ch. I suppose once the Castles arrive, I'll see the 5 ch light!

Bristol Pete · 20-02-2005, 10:28 AM

Remember that if it was recorded in two channel then play it in two channel. You can simulate surround sound music by using pro logic 2 which is very good but I still prefer 2 channel.

Cap

PJTX100 · 20-02-2005, 7:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Benefit

Remember that if it was recorded in two channel then play it in two channel. You can simulate surround sound music by using pro logic 2 which is very good but I still prefer 2 channel.

Cap

Now I've a decent sub the minimum for me is 2.1. I usually end up going with 4.1, taking out the centre and lowering the rears to just fill out the sound. Only exception is SACD or DVD-A where I stick with the 5.1 (as well as movies of course).

It's great having the flexibility!

...PJ

Bristol Pete · 20-02-2005, 8:01 PM

a decent sub can add loads to music listening pleasure.....

However, I am lucky enough to have floor standers that drop to 26hz with built in subwoofers

Got them from the US of A

Cap

martian1 · 20-02-2005, 8:01 PM

I think you may find you are just coming down from stumping out all that cash !

I have spent a fair bit over the years and i have found you can tend to get a bit depressed if things don't pan out as you thought.
No kit can ever be perfect, i bet you had demos the lot!!! But now feel after getting kit home problems are putting you off. Did you see rainbows at demo ? What made you decide on 5.1 in the first place ?
What i would do is "listen to your wife"

i bet the infocus is brilliant most of the time, Go see your dealer about speakers make sure they give you the stereo sound you love if not ask to change [don't leave it too late!]
Amp wise i would keep it for 5.1 and stereo then at a later time get yourself a great 2nd hand stereo amp to add into system. This gives you the best of both worlds

I have a Marantz 5.1 amp [ ok for movies] and a Audiolab 8000c stereo amp

yes it makes me

all the time.
Oh and i am due an infocus myself... So in a couple of weeks you can read my "Oh what have i done"! post. And my wife hates home cinema

Bristol Pete · 20-02-2005, 8:11 PM

digisocialist · 21-02-2005, 11:48 AM

O.K. My fantastic dealer has cancelled the Castles. This means I do not have to fork out on 5.1, for something I'm not entriely sure about.

I will therefore be putting the PJ up for sale.

Do people reckon I should put the 2805 & 2910 up also and start from scratch OR just sell the PJ and use the 2910 & 2805 for 2 ch duties? If the latter, will I get good 2 ch stereo from the 2805 compared to a stereo amp for the same price?

Finally (and I know this is a bit cheeky), do people think I could sell the 4805, 2805 & 2910 on these forums without a big loss? They're only 2 weeks old and are mint.

Digi

PJTX100 · 21-02-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digisocialist

O.K. My fantastic dealer has cancelled the Castles. This means I do not have to fork out on 5.1, for something I'm not entriely sure about.

I will therefore be putting the PJ up for sale.

Do people reckon I should put the 2805 & 2910 up also and start from scratch OR just sell the PJ and use the 2910 & 2805 for 2 ch duties? If the latter, will I get good 2 ch stereo from the 2805 compared to a stereo amp for the same price?

Finally (and I know this is a bit cheeky), do people think I could sell the 4805, 2805 & 2910 on these forums without a big loss? They're only 2 weeks old and are mint.

Digi

The 4805 has been heavily discounted recently. Depending on how much you paid you may be in for a heavier loss than expected on that.

The 2910 & 2805 is a lot of AV kit to simply use for 2 channel CD. Keeping them will give you the chance to go for 5.1 at a later date, but for the (pure guess) £800 ish you may get for them you could buy a very nice stereo amp / CD player.

Sorry things didn't work out, hope your stereo aspirations are realised....PJ

digisocialist · 21-02-2005, 12:30 PM

PJTX100 - I'd be looking for nealry asking price on the PJ (I paid 1K), as I said it is brand new and I haven't even signed up the warranty so that is full also. I may keep the AV & DVD player as I would be looking at a lot more for those. I may upgrade to 5.1. and buy an LCD PJ in the future anyway, so keeping the Amp & DVD might be a decent option, though I agree..it's a lot of kit for 2ch stereo. With the money clawed back from selling the PJ and the £1150 saved on 5.1. I'd be looking at about £2K to either
a) Re invest in an LCD PJ and some less expensive 5.1. speakers
b) Re invest in better 2 ch stereo speakers

If I sold the Amp & DVD.. I should in theory have 3K to invest purely in 2ch stereo, and for that I reckon I could get an alright system.

PJTX100 · 21-02-2005, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digisocialist

PJTX100 - I'd be looking for nealry asking price on the PJ (I paid 1K), as I said it is brand new and I haven't even signed up the warranty so that is full also. I may keep the AV & DVD player as I would be looking at a lot more for those. I may upgrade to 5.1. and buy an LCD PJ in the future anyway, so keeping the Amp & DVD might be a decent option, though I agree..it's a lot of kit for 2ch stereo. With the money clawed back from selling the PJ and the £1150 saved on 5.1. I'd be looking at about £2K to either
a) Re invest in an LCD PJ and some less expensive 5.1. speakers
b) Re invest in better 2 ch stereo speakers

If I sold the Amp & DVD.. I should in theory have 3K to invest purely in 2ch stereo, and for that I reckon I could get an alright system.

Have you discussed the 4805 situation with the dealer? Perhaps you can come to some arrangement to swap for an LCD model. I't's good news that you only spent 1K on the 4805, I think they were £1300 not so long ago? I wouldn't expect you to get much more than £850 for it though - people would likely spend the extra £150 and get it new with all the finance /refund / exchange possibilities that may bring.

I'd keep the Denons if I were you, get an LCD PJ, and purchase the 5.1 speakers (have you also budgetted for a screen?).

But clearly someone or something has dampened your 5.1 enthusiasm, so really it's your call...PJ

guido · 21-02-2005, 1:03 PM

Digi... sorry to hear that you are uncertain about what you have done... I think is this very common! Its a big high researching everything, making the purchases and getting it all home. Then you get the blues about the whole thing... you are NOT ALONE!!! Have I done the right thing, should I have bought X instead, etc etc etc.

If you are unsure about the 5.1ch thing, then possibly I would go for a lower end 5.1 and a separate high quality 2ch amp/setup for music. Something like the Energy Take 5.2 speakers are tiny and excellent for 5.1. They can also be picked up very cheaply now... see Sevenoaks for exdemo £300.

I have an oldish 2ch setup but it is still streets ahead of most 5.1 stuff unless spending serious cash. My cinema setup is the Infocus SP4805, Yam DSP-AX750SE (still to buy), Energy Take 5.2 to go with my existing 2ch setup of NAIM Nait, Marantz Cd and Epos ES11 spks. The 5.1 setup is discrete owing to the very small size of the sats but still excellent quality.

I would persevere for a bit too... it takes a while to set everything up and esp on 5.1 amps. Watching one film you will think ACE!, next film not so sure. Saw the Butterfly Effect over the weekend and its a really dodgy DVD for colouring/contrast which makes you think - this whole setup is s***e!!! But another DVD will blow you away!!

Its like post-holiday blues... you will get over it.. I wouldnt rush into anything just yet. Good luck with your decision...

Guido

digisocialist · 21-02-2005, 1:20 PM

Thanks guys. Well I've cancelled the 5.1. speakers so I'm kind of committed now, though the dealer did say if I change my mind by the weekend I can pop in and pcik them up.

I can't come to terms with the PJ really because of rainbows. The dealer doesn't sell LCD so I can't do a deal with him that way. He has been excellent in every other way though. The dilema I have now is, because I can't use a PJ, there's little use for 5.1. hence I cancelled the speakers. As this is now down, I'm now thinking that my DVD player and AV amp are not going to be utilised. They do sound fantastic, but maybe I should sell because I don't need anything as powerful for just 2 channel stereo.

My options are:
Do I sell the whole package.. would be looking for 2k for DVD/AV/PJ with a few bits thrown in. Or do I just sell the PJ? Decisions, decision. I'd be 'asking' for £950 for the PJ, there's no way I could sell at a massive hit when it's so new and warranty is fully transferable.

benji_m · 21-02-2005, 1:51 PM

digi,

Please, even dealers get these twinges of regret and we could flog our personal stuff on ebay for a quick profit if we wanted to. Keep the Denon bits, you have options! If you really wanted you could look at integrating it into a monobloc stereo setup at a later date.

However the PJ seems to warrant some careful consideration, you may be 'safer' with an LCD.

digisocialist · 21-02-2005, 2:22 PM

Benj_m - Yes it does. I'm caught now between..

Do I buy an LCD PJ for the money I make from the 4805 (Ben, you're my nearest dealer for LCD PJ's btw.. I live in Hebden). If I do do this, then I am back to square one with speakers, probably needing 5.1... but would like to stick to 2 ch for now.

Or do I sell the PJ and just concentrate on 2 ch. My only issue here is that I have a £600 DVD player and £500 AV Amp not doing much. I can't even exploit the DVD player with my TV because I only have S-Video running from the AV Rack (behind walls) to the TV position... I had only run Component to the PJ position

The wife is upset. She reckons though a small hit on selling my equipment is better than thinking 3.5k has gone to waste.

digisocialist · 21-02-2005, 2:27 PM

Wife update. She reckons I should stick the money from the sale of the 4805 into a savings account, along with the money I save on 5.1. and keep the Denons. Then, If I see an LCD PJ I like in a few months/years, I will have the money on standby. This I think would be a sensible compromise, at least I can see an upgrade path this way and won't feel I'm at a loss as I'll have money 'banked' for the future.

She has said however though that if there's any chance of saving money she wants to go to Greece at Easter!

Come on guy's help!

Bristol Pete · 21-02-2005, 3:58 PM

Keep the Denon kit for now, try it as a two channel set up, see what it sounds like.

Sell the 4805 on here. £950.00 sounds very reasonable. If I were looking to buy then I would happily pay that.

Look here

http://www.shootandshow.com/projectors.htm

Check out the PJTX100 or the Z3.

Thats my summary.

Cap

stripe · 21-02-2005, 4:17 PM

I think selling the 4805 and using the cash for a LCD would be the best bet, as effectively you would only be minimising your loss and getting a pretty damn good set up out of it. I don't think there is much between the TX100 and the 4085 in real terms.

DarrenH · 21-02-2005, 4:17 PM

Hi

If you decide to go on to classifieds, I have a Sanyo Z2 we could work a deal on. Three months old (62 hours use) no dead pixels, remainder of three year on-site warranty.

Let me know!

GrahamC · 21-02-2005, 4:34 PM

If you bank that money your good wife will av it, sure as eggs is eggs.

benji_m · 21-02-2005, 4:42 PM

I agree with GrahamC,

You have justified the purchase once, putting it in an account will make you have to justifiy it again. Plus it may be up for appropriation, for other less deserving purposes!

Decadence · 22-02-2005, 1:02 PM

It is funny that you are the only one that sees the rainbows, I am the same with my H30. I demo'd it for over an hour on all sorts of movies and didn't see them. Now I see them occasionally but nobody else does. I put it down to the fact that nobody else I know has heard of them so doesn't know what to look for. I don't even think about them now so never see them anymore unless I really flick my eyes about trying to make them happen. I also think it is because I wear glasses because when I take them off (I can still see the picture ok) I don't see them at all.

What I am trying to say is that after only 10 hours viewing you might not be used to the picture and maybe you could ignore the effect with more time. If you are watching the film thinking about the rainbows then you will see them because they are there but if you can change your approach to that of your friends and family who don't know about them then you will probably have a much more satisfying experience.

Alternatively there may be someone who wants to do a swap for an LCD that has devalued in the same way as yours, that way you won't notice the depreciation.

DarrenH · 22-02-2005, 4:17 PM

"Alternatively there may be someone who wants to do a swap for an LCD that has devalued in the same way as yours, that way you won't notice the depreciation."

As with my offer in post 26. I do not seem to suffer the rainbows!

Regards

DarrenH