[PJTX100]

Just bought the Feb 2005 (?) edition of Home Cinema Choice, haven't bought
this for a long time and really enjoyed seeing all the new gear. The
"budget" projector feature is great, it's about time more people where
informed of the fantastic quality which modern projectors are capable of .

I noticed an info panel next to the projector listings headed "DLP versus
LCD" and read it with interest. I was fully expecting to see things like
brightness, contrast, rainbows, vertical banding, screen door etc discussed.
You know, things that matter.

But I was totally amazed to see that there was absolutely no mention of
these fundamental aspects. Instead they quote a piece of research funded by
Texas Instruments which casts doubt on the lonevity of LCD yet states
categorically that DLP stays pristine forever. It actually says "LCD quickly
showed signs of picture degradation". Basically if you read this as a novice
you'd never try an LCD. By the way, in the research they tested 5 LCDs and
only two DLP's, no doubt just in case heaven forbid they happened upon a DLP
that started to show signs of age.

What do people think about HCC choosing to focus on a TI marketing ploy
rather than the main considerations when plumping for LCD or DLP?...PJ

[LV426]

Unfortunately, it is too often the case that such magazine articles are written by ill-informed authors and/or with a clear bias of their own.

I was recently helping a colleague choose a new TV. We looked at magazine reviews of certain Loewe models - marked DOWN by one reviewer because the battle scenes at the start of "Gladiator" looked more jerky than on another set. They are supposed to be jerky.....

The average reviewer appears to have no understanding of any of the important factors an informed buyer needs to consider.

Oh, and why is it editorially mandatory for every issue to contain at least one instance of the word "behemoth" and of the phrase "handles......with aplomb"?

[Razor]

I prefer DLP over LCD, try the Infocus 7205. My father has one set up on a 9 foot screen and the picture is beautifull. No grid structure visable, good contrast etc. demo one if you can.

[PJTX100]

Originally Posted by Razor

I prefer DLP over LCD, try the Infocus 7205. My father has one set up on a 9 foot screen and the picture is beautifull. No grid structure visable, good contrast etc. demo one if you can.

Erm, that's not quite what I was trying to get at, no advice needed on the respective merits of LCD or DLP thanks. My point is that they've chosen to ignore the main consideration points and simply quoted verbatim a piece of research funded by someone who has a vested interest in DLP....PJ

[cyberheater]

Originally Posted by PJTX100

Erm, that's not quite what I was trying to get at, no advice needed on the respective merits of LCD or DLP thanks. My point is that they've chosen to ignore the main consideration points and simply quoted verbatim a piece of research funded by someone who has a vested interest in DLP....PJ

Which is fine by me 'cause DLP is clearly better the LCD.

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

In a forum stylee panto voice...."Oh no it's not!"

G

[cyberheater]

Originally Posted by Gordon @ Convergent AV

In a forum stylee panto voice...."Oh no it's not!"

G

Nice one....

[PJTX100]

Oh yes it is... wait, which side am I on? Got confused there. Shall we all gang together and agree they both knock spots off plasma?
...PJ

[twarde]

You have to wonder about these magazine reviews. The What Video review of the Hitachi TX100 (on this website) states in bold it has 800*600 LCD panels which would be 4*3. This is clearly not the case as they 1280*720, 16*9.

The name of the reviewer - Alvin Gold. A name thats been around the HiFi mags for years

[Bristol Pete]

When my Panny AE300 was ill and at the doctors I was loaned a Sharp z91e DLP machine for about one week. It blew the panny away and that is no slouch. However, this week I bought an HS10 here on the forums and it really is superb, despite it being inherently LCD.

Not so keen to move to DLP now. Yet, I demoed the Infocus 4805 last week and saw shed loads of rainbows on this machine.

Just enjoying movies and worring less about the PQ where possible.

Cap

[LV426]

Strange, isn't it, how a thread which was commenting NOT on the relative merits of DLP or LCD, but on the merits of a magazine article, has, despite a second attempt by the OP to steer it back, degenerated into yet another "I think ABC is best" thread (where ABC can be either DLP or LCD or, wait for it, CRT).

Ho, hum.

[GrahamMG]

Originally Posted by LV426

Strange, isn't it, how a thread which was commenting NOT on the relative merits of DLP or LCD, but on the merits of a magazine article, has, despite a second attempt by the OP to steer it back, degenerated into yet another "I think ABC is best" thread (where ABC can be either DLP or LCD or, wait for it, CRT).

Ho, hum.

Good point
I was also surprised that technical limitations were not mentioned regarding LCD vs DLP as PJ says at the top of this thread, fact is they both have plus and minus points and each install may favour one over the other for hundreds of different reasons but TI did have a point about LCD panel life as they do "yellow" far too quickly for me.....having said that I know I have changed a few formatter boards where HD1's have had duff pixels......
Picture quality is a very emotive subject but if you take things to the ultimate (i.e. the best model from both camps) I've not ever seen or heard anyone prefer the LCD......

[Bristol Pete]

Nigel,

If you are refering to my post I was simply advising about what I saw with my eyes when it comes the technical limitations described in the opening post.

To be honest it was not a 'this is better than that thread' etc, simply my opinion in the easiest way I could describe it. What I think I am saying is that the constraints of LCD has diminished somewhat in my eyes now that I own the HS10 - my original projector of choice - which I think is relevant to the write up.

Apologies if I took the thread astray.

Cap

[zombie_donkey]

I purchased a DLP projector after reading several magazines and they did not stress the rainbow problem enough.

I now realise I took a big risk shelling out £1000 for a PJ and accessories that I may haave ended up being unable to watch. Not only that but there are freinds and family to consider. I also did not want to end up th eonly person able to use the thing.

Luckily no one has a problem with the rainbows. I do see them but am not bothered by them, especially after a few he he.

People considering one need to be advised they have to audition one properly, the only place I got this information (after buying one) was on this forum.

I found the home cinema magazines of little help and the fact that one is being sponsered to write articles by a principle player on the LCD Vs DLP debate is a bit scary.

But, apart from that, I do think DLP is the way to go and it is only a matter of time before Rainbows are eliminated as an issue.

The cost of bulbs and their short life, also seems to be glossed over by these reviewers. I had to get an extra large piggy bank!

[Louis Mazzini]

That bit of TI PR has been doing the rounds for some time now; I recall reading it almost a year ago. It has been discredited in some respects (Particularly with regard to the unrealsitic nature of the tests, i.e. the machines, if I remember correctly, were left running for a long time).

In my opinion magazines are generally biased in favour of DLP, a technology which I personally believe needs to be flagged "approach with extreme caution" at all times...

[cyberheater]

Originally Posted by Louis Mazzini

In my opinion magazines are generally biased in favour of DLP, a technology which I personally believe needs to be flagged "approach with extreme caution" at all times...

Having just watched Lord of the Rings (Return of the King) on my newish BenQ 6100 machine that you can pick up for around 600 quid or less after getting rid of my Panny AE200 machine, and having my jaws drop 'cause the image is so much better. You couldn't be more wrong in my opinion.

What's so wrong with DLP that it needs to be flagged 'approach with extreme caution'.

[LV426]

Rainbows. If you don't see them, great. If you do, then a DLP projector is a very expensive mistake to make.

If you don't see them, there is no power on this earth that will help you understand how someone can be nauseated by them.

[cyberheater]

Originally Posted by LV426

Rainbows. If you don't see them, great. If you do, then a DLP projector is a very expensive mistake to make.

If you don't see them, there is no power on this earth that will help you understand how someone can be nauseated by them.

I do see them on my dlp machine (and so does my wife) but it's not often and it's not distracting.

I've never felt nauseated by it.

Do you think a faster colour wheel would solve it for you or are you highly sensitive to the effect?

[Gordon @ Convergent AV]

I see them on some units and I do finid it offensive and it does make me feel sick. Faster wheels will help but Nigel is VERY sensitive to it and is only likely to enjot DLP when 3 chips become the norm.

Gordon

[LV426]

Yep, that's about it. And, for me (and anyone in the same position) any one-chip + colour wheel DLP has to be approached with extreme caution.

The difficulty for everybody ELSE, though, occurs when, having invested in equipment that's fine for you, you sit down with your partner or a bunch of mates, only to discover, too late, that one or more of them actually suffers, too.

The sooner DLP manufacturers stop messing about with what (in my view) is a fundamentally flawed approach, and get on with the real business of making a cost-effective 3-chip DLP, the better.

[Louis Mazzini]

Originally Posted by LV426

The sooner DLP manufacturers stop messing about with what (in my view) is a fundamentally flawed approach, and get on with the real business of making a cost-effective 3-chip DLP, the better.

Hear hear!

What I was getting at earlier is that magazines do not bring people's attention to the enourmous potential problem of DLP. I have NEVER seen a magazine review mention that it is VITAL that you audition a DLP for at least half an hour, minimum, before even considering parting with your cash.

Sure, they can offer fabulous picture quality but, hand on heart, I'd rather have something like an AE200 than ANY single-chip DLP, and the four friends I've been projector hunting with in the last year ALL came to the same disappointing conclusion. Strange, considering you always read things like, "If you're one of the unlucky ones who suffers with rainbows..."

This experience of mine has led me to believe that the rainbow = eyestrain = headache problem is more widespread than magazines would have you believe, hence, going back to what this was all about, I do believe there is a clear bias in magazines towards DLP. Then again, of course, magazines like these exist to sell product.

In the meantime, I envy all DLP users who don't understand what I'm on about! (Although, with the current crop of LCDs, I envy then a lot less than I would have eighteen months ago...)

I have to say to anyone looking for a projector, go and demo both.... i was set on buying a dlp after reading all the reports in the mags. i got a demo of both. after 5 mins watching dlp i had to leave the demo room as i couldnt watch the picture any more as the rainbows were giving me the start of a migrain.
i then moved on to a lcd projector and what a difference just what i was looking for big screen for my own home. i ordered a sony hs50,it arrived on christmas eve and its been big screen bliss here over the holidays...........

[LV426]

I suspect that the arrival of contrast-enhanced high(ish) resolution LCDs (like the latest Sony and Panachronic offerings) will have some effect on the DLP market. Here's hoping it has enough of an effect to focus the minds of SIM2, Infocus and the like into doing what they inevitably will need to do to keep ahead. Roll on 3 chips....

[sapgem]

It is amazing that rainbows are seemingly never mentioned in magazine articles. Thank goodness for Avforums!! Is it simply that the reviewers don't see them and fail to research the topic properly? Or is it more about being advertiser friendly? - makes ya wonder.

DLPs are the future of course - when 3 chips are involved. But for me it isn't so much whether i see rainbows or not, but inevitably someone I sit down infront of the projector will (and sick up their Xmas pud - yuck!). In many ways projectors are social things - if 10% of people are gonna be unable to watch a particularly model then magazines should be telling us this.

[Sporran]

rainbows - bit stange. I saw them straight away, wofey didnt see them at all through 2 dvds good job they were bon jovi, i told her i didnt like the bloke.

But got my HS50 today and i just watched, re watched bruce almighty and was class. Just about to annoy the neighbours. Just opened bottle No2, ordered Pizza and just gonna start Disk 1 of the Alien Quadrilogy :D Roll on the subwoofer and Aliens :D he he.

[PJTX100]

Originally Posted by sapgem

DLPs are the future of course - when 3 chips are involved.

I hope that by the time I want to swap the TX100 that 3 chip DLP's are in a reasonable price range. However, LCD seems to the "fashionable" technology at the moment, they are gaining on plasma's from what I see and it could be they become the technology of choice in this respect. And as already mentioned LCD has advanced significantly recently for PJ's.
Not knowing the fundamentals involved, I'm wondering if they've squeezed the last drops out of PJ LCD technology, or have they opened the door on further advancement?...PJ