[simonprr]

(MOD EDIT: Part 2 can be found here...JVC DLA- X30, X70 and X90 (UK specs) discussion/owners thread - Part 2 )



What deep color value does everyone see when you press info? I only ever see 8bit is this the most?

For some reason TiVo and HTPC show 8bit but my Sony BDP-S360 bluray player doesn't show any value even though it supports deep color I believe.

[KelvinS1965]

Originally Posted by simonprr

What deep color value does everyone see when you press info? I only ever see 8bit is this the most?

For some reason TiVo and HTPC show 8bit but my Sony BDP-S360 bluray player doesn't show any value even though it supports deep color I believe.

You may have to go into one of the set up menus to change the output to deep colour (I still have a BDP-S350 in my loft somewhere, but can't recall if it had deepcolour). However, be aware that it may just add 'padding' to the existing bits an even if it does 'upsample' it still may do no better job than the projector itself which may well process internally at higher than 8 bit.

Are you outputing in RGB or YCrBr as this will effect whether you can 'activate' deepcolour. But in anycase I wouldn't worry to much about it. Even if you have a disc of test patterns such as Spears & Munsell, you may struggle to see if there is any difference between settings, or even find one better than the other for certain patterns and then visa versa.

[simonprr]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

You may have to go into one of the set up menus to change the output to deep colour (I still have a BDP-S350 in my loft somewhere, but can't recall if it had deepcolour). However, be aware that it may just add 'padding' to the existing bits an even if it does 'upsample' it still may do no better job than the projector itself which may well process internally at higher than 8 bit.

Are you outputing in RGB or YCrBr as this will effect whether you can 'activate' deepcolour. But in anycase I wouldn't worry to much about it. Even if you have a disc of test patterns such as Spears & Munsell, you may struggle to see if there is any difference between settings, or even find one better than the other for certain patterns and then visa versa.

Thanks for the reply - I have the settings for deep colour etc to Auto in the menu on the BD player. Maybe I'll switch it to on and see if that makes any difference. So is 8bit the highest deep colour bit rate?

[simonprr]

Reading this Color depth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia it tends to suggest I should be seeing more than 8bit with my HTPC at least as I have a Geforce 210 graphics card, so new enough I would have thought. Inside Windows 7 its set to 30-bit color but maybe thats different!

[soupdragon]

Originally Posted by Canary_Jules

No, afaik it's going to be £5k. Phil said it first. My guess is that it's aimed directly at the Sony VW95. Interesting fight there because when I did a shoot out between my VW95 and an X70 the VW95 was right up with the X70 in 2d and did infinitely better with 3d.

I've read your posts on the vw95 and to say I'm intrigued is an understatement. I picked up a used Sony hw10 recently just to have a peek at a Sony projector and like what I'm seeing, so I'm sure the hw95 is stellar.
My next projector could very well be a Sony as it seems any weakness they have is negligible, very good at everything. The e-shift offering from Jvc throws a spanner in the works too though, especially the fact I want to get ready for 4k and I'll be building a supersize screen soon. 160" from 13ft might need a bit of e-shift so I'll be waiting to see some e-shift 2 reviews.

[kbfern]

Originally Posted by Canary_Jules

No, afaik it's going to be £5k. Phil said it first. My guess is that it's aimed directly at the Sony VW95. Interesting fight there because when I did a shoot out between my VW95 and an X70 the VW95 was right up with the X70 in 2d and did infinitely better with 3d.

I think you were missing the point of soupdragons post, Phil did say £5k and that is most probably what it will be.The point is it is also $5k and 5k euros and 5k euros is equivalent to about £4.1k.So we are saying it's not a level playing field on the price.

[Canary_Jules]

Originally Posted by kbfern

I think you were missing the point of soupdragons post, Phil did say £5k and that is most probably what it will be.The point is it is also $5k and 5k euros and 5k euros is equivalent to about £4.1k.So we are saying it's not a level playing field on the price.

Thanks, I did see that. And you're right. It's not a level playing field.

[Canary_Jules]

Originally Posted by soupdragon

I've read your posts on the vw95 and to say I'm intrigued is an understatement. I picked up a used Sony hw10 recently just to have a peek at a Sony projector and like what I'm seeing, so I'm sure the hw95 is stellar.
My next projector could very well be a Sony as it seems any weakness they have is negligible, very good at everything. The e-shift offering from Jvc throws a spanner in the works too though, especially the fact I want to get ready for 4k and I'll be building a supersize screen soon. 160" from 13ft might need a bit of e-shift so I'll be waiting to see some e-shift 2 reviews.

The VW95 is well worth a demo. Put it this way, the 2d picture on the VW95 was so close to the X70 (both calibrated) that I didn't consider it worthwhile to upgrade even had the projectors been equally priced. But this was especially so given that the X70 was £2k more expensive. The X70 did have an edge in 2d but I can't stress too much that it was ever so slight. When it came to 3d the VW95 performed much better than the X70 - obviously so. At £2k cheaper that makes the VW95 a billy bargain IMO. If JVC have improved the 3d on the X55 that will be great, but I wonder how much it can improve without ditching the slower panels. We'll see. The X55 will have a lower stated contrast ratio than the X70 so some of the ever so slight advantages the X70 had over the VW95 in 2d will be negated. It's going to be a hard choice for people.

[kbfern]

Depending on the price of the HW50 if it is around £4k or less it has reality creation built in which is a credible alternative to e-shift on the X55 so that may be the way to go especially as 3D on the Sony seems sorted.

[simonprr]

Originally Posted by kbfern

Depending on the price of the HW50 if it is around £4k or less it has reality creation built in which is a credible alternative to e-shift on the X55 so that may be the way to go especially as 3D on the Sony seems sorted.

PQ just as good ?

[kbfern]

I just read a teaser article and the street price in teh US should be $4k and a free spare bulb included if the article is correct the specs look very good an even a worse case scenario should be £3.5-4k without the spare bulb over here.

I think JVC will have screwed up if there is over a grand difference between the HW50 and the X55.

The Art of Home Theater Projectors » Blog Archive » Sony VPL-HW50ES Projector – Sony Gets It Right

[adrianp]

Originally Posted by kbfern

I think you were missing the point of soupdragons post, Phil did say £5k and that is most probably what it will be.The point is it is also $5k and 5k euros and 5k euros is equivalent to about £4.1k.So we are saying it's not a level playing field on the price.

Looking at last year's models none of them were priced at $=£.

Model, $, £, % reduction $ to £
X90 12000 10000 16.7
X70 8000 7000 12.5
X30 3500 3000 14.3

Assuming the X35/75/95 are priced the same as the X30/70/90 and the pricing of the X55 at $=£ happens it would be a shame as given the difference for the other models it should be somewhere between 4200 and 4400.

The feeling of being taken advantage of in the UK increases further when you see the US also still gets pre-order/launch pricing discounts which I haven't seen in the UK for the last couple of years.

[HAWK-EYE]

JVCs Native Contrast needs to be beaten by the competition as the black floor is the backbone of losing ones self in a movie and forgetting about the piffalls of a Dynamic Iris rated at 1 trillion:1 but in reality raises the black floor in starfileds etc etc

[Gary Lightfoot]

A dynamic iris lowers the black floor in a star field, but will adjust the gamma to increase the video signal for white. Sony's DI does this the best with no pumping and little visible compression.

In some circumstances a DI can give you more contrast in a specific scene because it uses all it's native range for that scene, whereas a non DI pj will only be able to use just the lower range available rather than all of it.

For example, lets say a dark scene is encoded for the lower 25% of the full video range - a non DI pj may have 60,000:1 CR so will use just 15,000:1 of it's range. A PJ with Dynamic iris and 20,000:1 native CR will use the DI to clamp down and use the entire 20,000:1 for that scene. In that case the DI will be using more contrast for a specific scene than the higher native CR pj, so may have a better black level in that case (assuming a similar white level, all else being equal).

That's not saying that a DI is better (most aren't that good so best left switched off), but there are some cases where a DI has it's advantages.

Gary

[mikim]

Is my understanding correct that the new X55 will have eshift2 & full CMS?

If so, with a X75 & 95 in the range why would anybody buy the 75? OK a small hike in CR, and perhaps a THX setting or two, but that's it right?

Folk who want the best will buy the 95 and most people will buy x35 due to the budget (£3k ) price. A few will opt for the x55 like they did for the 7 & 70 in the past to gain on the extra control and features. I dont see where the 75 sits in the market place?

I have to admit I haven't been throught the specs in detail so I might be jumping to conclusions here

[Phil Hinton]

Originally Posted by mikim

Is my understanding correct that the new X55 will have eshift2 & full CMS?

Yes that is correct. The full confirmed price list is

DLA-X35 £2899
DLA-X55 £4999
DLA-X75 £6999
DLA-X95 £9999

Edit All models will be available in November. As usual we will get our hands on them as soon as there is production retail stock available.

[HAWK-EYE]

To maximize 2D depth these 2 patterns in the service menu (uP-DOWN-RIGHT-LEFT-OK) should show all 15 squares when flicking between the 2.

After warming up for 30+ mins.
I just adjust the gamma by eye to achieve this starting at 2.3.

Something like this.

[adrianp]

Originally Posted by Phil Hinton

Yes that is correct. The full confirmed price list is

DLA-X35 £2899
DLA-X55 £4999
DLA-X75 £6999
DLA-X95 £9999

Edit All models will be available in November. As usual we will get our hands on them as soon as there is production retail stock available.

Well that's a disappointing but entirely predictable spot of price gouging on the X55 in the UK.

[Phil Hinton]

My thoughts on what I saw yesterday Hands-on Exclusive: JVC Launch DLA-X35, X55, X75 and X95 D-ILA 3D Projectors

And the video with Steve Carter

JVC launch the DLA-X35, X55, X75 and X95 D-ila 3D Projectors with Eshift2 4K upscaling - YouTube

[gadget man]

thinking of buying my first projector, probably wait now for the new x35 and the new one from Panasonic. Will be in my living room which is only 14ft length by 12ft wide i will be sat about 7ft. would a 100" screen from ceiling be acceptable or would i be sat too close? Also the important question are projectors good as a Panasonic plasma TV 50" which i own? yes i know the screen is larger it's the image quality i am bothered about.

[Gary Lightfoot]

That's roughly where I like to sit (screen size to seating distance ratio wise) but if I was you I would experiment by projecting onto a wall first to see what you prefer. How close do you sit in the cinema?

No worries about image quality, but some attention to set up will be required for best results (see calibration link in my sig). Have you seen any demos yet?

Gary

[Ideal AV]

Originally Posted by gadget man

thinking of buying my first projector, probably wait now for the new x35 and the new one from Panasonic. Will be in my living room which is only 14ft length by 12ft wide i will be sat about 7ft. would a 100" screen from ceiling be acceptable or would i be sat too close? Also the important question are projectors good as a Panasonic plasma TV 50" which i own? yes i know the screen is larger it's the image quality i am bothered about.

the quality of the image doesn`t only depend on the choice of pj, the screen and more importantly the room where its all in will play a massive part in what you see.

Not having seen either new model yet, I don`t really like to comment but my money would be on the JVC for 2d and hopefully 3d now its been improved, but I would also pay attention to the screen if its going to be used in an ambient lit room.


As Gary has already mentioned, doing your own personal demo will be key

can`t wait till tomorrow

Allan

[gadget man]

Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot

That's roughly where I like to sit (screen size to seating distance ratio wise) but if I was you I would experiment by projecting onto a wall first to see what you prefer. How close do you sit in the cinema?

No worries about image quality, but some attention to set up will be required for best results (see calibration link in my sig). Have you seen any demos yet?

Gary

Thanks for the quick reply's, yes i saw a demo of the JVCX30 last year, not really blown away by the 3D and was on a £2000 screen cannot remember the make. But last year the Panasonic was way better with 3D content, not 2D which stopped me from buying last year's JVC model.I will be watching in a darkened living room in front of a wide window but the curtains will be drawn anyhow. At he moment undecided between a projector and the Panasonic VT55" plasma.

[Gary Lightfoot]

For me personally, you can't beat the immersive experience a big screen can give you, but I'd only use it for movies. Keep the plasma for tv. If you use the pj for everything, movies lose the visual impact a big screen gives you and scope movies end up looking smaller than Coronation Street so it's not something 'd recommend.

Gary

[gadget man]

Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot

For me personally, you can't beat the immersive experience a big screen can give you, but I'd only use it for movies. Keep the plasma for tv. If you use the pj for everything, movies lose the visual impact a big screen gives you and scope movies end up looking smaller than Coronation Street so it's not something 'd recommend.

Gary

Well my TV is only used for movie watching i do not even have a TV license only watch Blu-ray's. Which is why i am drawn to a projector, will be a 16:9 ratio no space for the widescreen and do not want to go below 100" screen size. decisions decisions tempting for large screen but want the quality of a plasma. Please keep persuading me that the projector is the way to go. The expense is huge for a good quality screen £2000 plus £3000 for projector want this to be good.

[Canary_Jules]

Originally Posted by HAWK-EYE

JVCs Native Contrast needs to be beaten by the competition as the black floor is the backbone of losing ones self in a movie and forgetting about the piffalls of a Dynamic Iris rated at 1 trillion:1 but in reality raises the black floor in starfileds etc etc

Just in case anyone is wondering about my comments about the VW95 in relation to the X70, the iris on the VW95 was in a fixed position to give the same lumen output as the X70. There was very little difference in the black levels between the two projectors.

[Gary Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by gadget man

Well my TV is only used for movie watching i do not even have a TV license only watch Blu-ray's. Which is why i am drawn to a projector, will be a 16:9 ratio no space for the widescreen and do not want to go below 100" screen size. decisions decisions tempting for large screen but want the quality of a plasma. Please keep persuading me that the projector is the way to go. The expense is huge for a good quality screen £2000 plus £3000 for projector want this to be good.

I have a plasma, and I've had projectors, and the image quality of a projector can be as good or better IMHO - I certainly don't think a pj is inferior so it's not a concern - I've yet to see a direct view display make me think twice about having a projector but I often wonder why more people don't have projectors. Calibration and set up is important though. As Al said, the room will have more impact on the image a pj delivers than it would on a direct view set, but it sounds like you should be OK.

The only issue you may have is in image brightness. If you want the same brightness as a plasma, you will need at least 1200 genuine lumens or more to achieve similar results. If you want something with cinema levels of brightness (60% less), then you'll be fine with most pjs out there.

There are other differences because the technologies and delivery method aren't the same, but as has been said, the only way you will know for sure is to demo some.

Do you have your plasma calibrated for greyscale and gamut etc as that can be done on pjs too, but like tvs, some have better facilities for it than others.

Gary

[gadget man]

Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot

I have a plasma, and I've had projectors, and the image quality of a projector can be as good or better IMHO - I certainly don't think a pj is inferior so it's not a concern - I've yet to see a direct view display make me think twice about having a projector but I often wonder why more people don't have projectors. Calibration and set up is important though. As Al said, the room will have more impact on the image a pj delivers than it would on a direct view set, but it sounds like you should be OK.

The only issue you may have is in image brightness. If you want the same brightness as a plasma, you will need at least 1200 genuine lumens or more to achieve similar results. If you want something with cinema levels of brightness (60% less), then you'll be fine with most pjs out there.

There are other differences because the technologies and delivery method aren't the same, but as has been said, the only way you will know for sure is to demo some.

Do you have your plasma calibrated for greyscale and gamut etc as that can be done on pjs too, but like tvs, some have better facilities for it than others.

Gary

Hi,

my TV is not calibrated just set in the THX mode which i am more than happy. My plasma is bright enough so if a projector is as bright will be pleased. May wait for the reviews now and then have another demo, last year's models were not perfect, on one hand you had the JVC excellent 2D but 3D was mediocre, panasonic excellent 3D but not in 2D. I just want a happy medium.

[HAWK-EYE]

Lawrence of Arabia 1962 excellent remaster.

[Gary Lightfoot]

Originally Posted by gadget man

Hi,

my TV is not calibrated just set in the THX mode which i am more than happy. My plasma is bright enough so if a projector is as bright will be pleased. May wait for the reviews now and then have another demo, last year's models were not perfect, on one hand you had the JVC excellent 2D but 3D was mediocre, panasonic excellent 3D but not in 2D. I just want a happy medium.

If you're after plasma levels, you may fine image noise from the source may be a problem, especially from SD sources (the brighter the image, the more it can stand out). That's why I personally aim for cinema levels, even for HD as it looks more cinema like. Brighter images look more like video for me and less cinematic, but that's just my personal preference. Some people prefer things brighter and find the dimmer images less enjoyable. You'll have to see what you think from a demo. It's the only way to know before spending your money, but getting a good demo can sometimes be hard to find.

Because plasma is direct view and a smaller image within a larger field of view, and usually watched with some levels of ambient, the image noise is less visible. With a big screen filing most of your FOV and usually in darkness, image noise is more visible (assuming you notice it - not everyone does).

Gary