[Indecisive]

I am thinking of getting a cheap pj for the living room. I already have a 50" Panny so this will just be for the odd movie and PS3. It is something I have never had before so I don't want to spend a fortune and not get the use out of it. So after a little search on the bay I have come across a bunch of very low end pj's with low price to boot.

Has anyone seen how these perform. I am obviously not expecting superior quality but surely they can't be terrible, or can they?

HDMI LCD HD TV ready projector 1080P home theater Video on eBay (end time 16-Oct-09 01:48:14 BST)

[24 P]

Madness, pure madness, you get what you pay for...
Its resolution is average, 1024 by 768, replacement bulbs? what about warranty??
They say something in the Private eyes hand book about 10 foot barge pole..
I have seen these on ebay and been tempted myself till I did wise up..
There are just too many variables..
Sorry to sound so negative..

[nwgarratt]

Originally Posted by Indecisive

Has anyone seen how these perform. I am obviously not expecting superior quality but surely they can't be terrible, or can they?

They are indeed terrible and not worth the money.

[Indecisive]

Originally Posted by 24 P

Madness, pure madness, you get what you pay for...
Its resolution is average, 1024 by 768, replacement bulbs? what about warranty??
They say something in the Private eyes hand book about 10 foot barge pole..
I have seen these on ebay and been tempted myself till I did wise up..
There are just too many variables..
Sorry to sound so negative..

I know what your saying but the feedback is good. Ok bulbs, they give you 2 to start with and they sell spare ones for £30. Warranty is 14 days with seller then 2 years with manufacturer. Surely if it was so bad, the feedback would say so, and come on, it's £250 delivered. It's not the only one on the bay, there are other sellers and similar pj's.

Yes there is 10 foot barge pole, but there is also paying for a name?

Your comments are my instinct, but they are also without grounds and simply based on "It's cheap, unbranded and therefore rubbish". This is not always the case

[nwgarratt]

Originally Posted by Indecisive

Your comments are my instinct, but they are also without grounds and simply based on "It's cheap, unbranded and therefore rubbish". This is not always the case

It is in this case. A second hand PJ is better if you cannot afford the £500 for something from Optoma, Infocus, BenQ etc.

That one is located in China so expect to pay 15% Import VAT on the total.

[kbfern]

Buy one they are great(that's what you want us to say)

You can always sell it at a loss on ebay when you see the error of your ways.

This question has been asked loads of times and always gets the same response.

[Indecisive]

no kbfern, thats not what I want to hear! I asked a valid question and I was hoping that maybe somone who had seen one working could have some input.

Anything you buy new is sold at a loss second hand???????????

I had done a search on here before I asked the question but found nothing?

-----------

nwgarratt it's not that I cannot afford the £500 for something better, I just don't want to spend that sort of money on a possible 5 min wonder.

Why is it in this case, have you seen one working? I'm not trying to be funny, just want some answers that are backed up, not just opinions on something they have never seen.

I wouldn't make opinions towards something on here unless I had experienced it first hand, regardless of brand.

Any recomendations on a second hand one then??? Still there will be no warrenty so could have a lump of useless plastic after a week?

[24 P]

Buy the 1 on ebay, be prepared to burn your 250 quid on instinct and be happy...
this is the risk, and @ that $ it is a steal, 30 quid globes would be crap, so it reflects on the build quality of the PJ...
I just came back from an install I did with an Epson TW 700 on a 2.8 metre wide screen.
720 P, and it was awesome.. He paid equivalent to 800 quid, but he has a quality product from a well know PJ company..
I can't express how much of not to buy the product as you are taking a risk that there are too many uncertainties..
Are you prepared to burn your money??
If so, get it, maybe you will get what you want, then tell me how good it is and I will buy 1..
If they are this good, why haven't they taken the market by storm and why haven't they been reviewed?
No negative input, just realistic advice..

[kbfern]

Here is just a couple of threads I found about cheap ebay projectors there are others if you search.

Why so cheap!!!

Unbranded eBay PJ's - HP-035, any good?

Chinese projectors on e-bay with 6000 hour £30 lamps - why so cheap/r they any good?

[24 P]

kbfern, good reading, I am still laughing, 6000 - 8000 hrs on one lamp eh for 35 quid?? 2000 hrs difference, hmmm.
Once again thx for the laughs..
OP don't say we didn't warn you..




EDIT, The Placebo Projector, you know, for when you can't afford the real thing, buy this and be fooled into thinking its a grand ole piece of gear..

I am still laughing, I read that they use 1 single 7 inch LCD which houses all 3 primary colors, and shine some stupid cheap globe which is not of any quality..
The 7 inch panel basically comes from portable devices such as DVD players, tablets etc...
Like I said OP, you have our blessings..

[dovercat]

Not worth it. Way too expensive for the spec and not a known brand. You can get similar spec main brand lcd projectors second hand from £50 on ebay, or superior spec dual purpose second hand dlp xga projectors from around £150. For the price they are asking you could get a second hand proper home cinema projector.
Buying second hand is more risky with dust blobs and lamp life but if you ask the seller questions via ebay prior to bidding and use a credit card via paypal you have some cover.

It says 1080p on the listing but at least they are honest enough to tell you it is XGA 1024x768 resolution. This is ok for UK PAL DVD which it should display 1024x576 but only a quarter of the pixels of 1080p.
They are LCD and make no reference to pixel fill factor, if as the poster above says they are using a single panel usually used in flatscreens it will be terrible. These panels use subpixels for the rgb colors, so pixel fill factor will be less than 33%. This means your viewing distance to screen width will have to be massive or it will be like looking through a grill. Even with a proper business presentation XGA LCD projector you are looking at 1.5x preferably 2x screen width to viewer and they have fillfactors much higher around 70% due to using three panels. You also have no idea about lens qualty so how sharp and infocus the image will be.
The contrast ratio is quoted as 600:1 and will be lower when calibrated for good color, if it has the ability to calibrate greyscale color. The image may look pleasant but will lack the depth of a high contrast ratio.
The luminance ratting 2000, is high so it should give a bright image. But the lamps are too cheap which implies they are not proper projector lamps, this could mean shorter lifespan or poor color accuracy or more prone to flickering.
Fan noise is 32dB. (I found a projector with 30dB tolerable, and with 35dB intolerable) you would not want to be sat near it, and it will be audible in quiter parts of the film.

[bertplucker]

I had one of these cost me £330 a few years ago. The picture was ok in a darkened room. You couldnt really see the screen door effect when sat 10-12 foot away and the picture could look really good with the right film. (lord of the rings3 big elephant chapter springs to mind)
The bulbs are cheap and reliable as they are HID bulbs with no fiament.
I sold it in the end as I couldn't place it in a convenient place in the room and also found the fans a bit noisy in the quiet bits.
If you like films with big explosions ever 5 mins I doubt you would notice.
For the price they sell for now (£200 odd)I think they are worth it and certainly not a con.
The bloke that brought it from me had a deceased optoma (not HD) with exploded color wheel and seems happy.

[Indecisive]

Thanks you Dovercat & Bertplucker, just what I wanted to hear.

Dovercat, I am someone who knows nothing about pj's (this is why I posted the question) & you have taken time to explained to me exactly where these are failing with regards to spec, not just "there rubbish, don't buy one".

Bertplucker, Thanks for an honest first hand experience of one of these (although I have no idea what "screen door effect" is).

The fan noise may be a problem, especially combined with the PS3 fan and as I will be approx 10ft from the screen I think Dovercat, you have put me right off, I didn't realise this was how the image was produced.

I think I will either extend my budget or go for a used branded example.

Any recommendations? It need to be able to display HD content, will be used in the dark, and would like to display on a large screen.
Viewing and pj location will be approx 10ft from the screen.

[kbfern]

What will be your revised budget?

At £499 you will be able to get a BenQ W600 in a couple of weeks.They are very bright (maybe to bright) and have a fairly noisy fan but should give of a nice image.

Optoma HD65/700x are around £500 if you can find one new and are an excellent buy,used available for £350 ish.Infocus X9 is another at around £550 but are getting scarce now.

All these are DLP projectors so get a demo to see if rainbows are an issue.

Any of the above would be a marked improvement on your original selection.

[nwgarratt]

I have seen them. My main problem other than not being widescreen and low resolution is the awful contrast ratio. The picture was very washed out (even in a dark room) and was worse than my first PJ. A model from nearly 7 years ago. Some are also so bright that they light the room up and wash the picture out even more.

I also find it funny that they put a HDMI socket on these things things despite having 1024x768 resolution.

I rather still use my 848x480 resolution PJ despite being lower resolution, it is much better contrast and brightness and is widescreen.

[Indecisive]

Originally Posted by kbfern

What will be your revised budget?

At £499 you will be able to get a BenQ W600 in a couple of weeks.They are very bright (maybe to bright) and have a fairly noisy fan but should give of a nice image.

Optoma HD65/700x are around £500 if you can find one new and are an excellent buy,used available for £350 ish.Infocus X9 is another at around £550 but are getting scarce now.

All these are DLP projectors so get a demo to see if rainbows are an issue.

Any of the above would be a marked improvement on your original selection.

Thanks for that, £400 would be my max I think as obviously need to get a screen on top.

A used Optoma HD65 is running at £430 on a bid with 7hrs still to go at the moment (bidding madness if they are £500 new). I will keep my eye out for one but these may still be over my limit.

So is it fair to say I can't really go wrong with any HD Optoma?

Rainbows? are these similar to the trails seen on a plasma? or are we talking prism refraction effect? Is it something that may only effect viewers with sensitive vision?

[kbfern]

Forget e-bay look on the forum classifieds on here,better bargains

There's a HD65 on there now for around £340,there has been a few for sale of late due to folks upgrading to the HD20/200x.They have usually gone for under £400.

Rainbows are something you either see or don't see it is an eye/brain thing.

As for screen in the short term if you have a white/cream/light coloured wall point it at that,you will be surprised at how good it will look.You can get a screen or make your own when funds allow.

[Indecisive]

Originally Posted by kbfern

Forget e-bay look on the forum classifieds on here,better bargains

There's a HD65 on there now for around £340,there has been a few for sale of late due to folks upgrading to the HD20/200x.They have usually gone for under £400.

Rainbows are something you either see or don't see it is an eye/brain thing.

As for screen in the short term if you have a white/cream/light coloured wall point it at that,you will be surprised at how good it will look.You can get a screen or make your own when funds allow.

Cool, will have a look. Re the screen, I will need to get one, I have a floating wall with my panny slap bang in the middle. Plan is to have a hidden screen above and to drop it down when required.

[airjaff]

Originally Posted by Indecisive

I am thinking of getting a cheap pj for the living room. I already have a 50" Panny so this will just be for the odd movie and PS3. It is something I have never had before so I don't want to spend a fortune and not get the use out of it. So after a little search on the bay I have come across a bunch of very low end pj's with low price to boot.

Has anyone seen how these perform. I am obviously not expecting superior quality but surely they can't be terrible, or can they?

HDMI LCD HD TV ready projector 1080P home theater Video on eBay (end time 16-Oct-09 01:48:14 BST)

I would say dont even bother with an lcd projector they are rubbish. Save up some more money and get a decent dlp

[Badger_Lady]

How about one of these?
HDMI INPUT SANYO LCD PROJECTOR NEW 6000 HR LAMP +3D on eBay (end time 18-Oct-09 20:09:22 BST)

I'm looking at a windowless room in the basement, so pitch dark and with an ideal blank wall in front of a nice ceiling beam

[kbfern]

I wouldn't bother as it's an old discontinued model was for educational type use in classrooms and will be very noisy.

Do yourself a favour and spend £400 on something worth having like has been said previously.

[Badger_Lady]

Classroom type? Really? With 3-D?

I trust you as the expert, of course, I'm just surprised Very valid point about noise - I am mostly into arty and foreign films... I was just hoping to go low-budget where possible.

Discontinued itself doesn't bother me; the replacement bulbs are more expensive than the projector anyway and I reckon 6000 hours will last me close to 20 years!

[kbfern]

Don't know where they get the 3D from as it looks like a marketing gimmick to me.As you say the replacement bulbs are more than the pj which would lead me to ask if the statement that they come with a new bulb is genuine.

Sanyo is a decent make(my first pj was a Sanyo Z1) so I am not anti Sanyo but it's one of those offers that look to good to be true,so beware.

If you want a decent pj to watch movies I am not sure this is the right pj for you.

You could get a Sanyo used Z3 or Z4 for around £250/£300 and that is a projector made for home theatre use.

[kbfern]

I have been able to find very little info on this projector but what I have found is listed below.

These projectors are used in classroom type situations and are probably units that have seen long service in that type of environment.

The seller probably has an arrangement with some educational authority and takes all there old worn out projectors and gives them a clean and a new bulb(or new to the machine/may have already had some use in another pj) and sells them on.

The price may not be rip off at £175 but are they any good,that is what I would be asking.

Data Projectors and dust - Kent ICT Blog

[SteveCritten]

Badger Lady they are just using words to sell items like "HD ready" which means it allows HD content to be sent to the PJ but then projects it at a lower resolution. "3D" means using a computer with the 3D graphics card it will give a 3D image(not like at the cinemas though that is coming next year I hope).

Indecisive/Badger Lady I would definitely say do not get one of those PJ's you would pay £250 and say "Projectors are rubbish" but by just increasing the budget to £500 for a 720p projector you will turn it on and go "WOW". I have an Infocus X9 and a 120" screen and with Sky HD or Blu-ray it is absolutely phenominal, I would go as far as saying better the the cinema (home comforts and beer at my fingertips ). So please either increase your budget now or save up a bit longer and prepare to be wowed. I would suggest going somewhere for a demonstration to satisfy yourself.

[Indecisive]

Originally Posted by SteveCritten

Badger Lady they are just using words to sell items like "HD ready" which means it allows HD content to be sent to the PJ but then projects it at a lower resolution. "3D" means using a computer with the 3D graphics card it will give a 3D image(not like at the cinemas though that is coming next year I hope).

Indecisive/Badger Lady I would definitely say do not get one of those PJ's you would pay £250 and say "Projectors are rubbish" but by just increasing the budget to £500 for a 720p projector you will turn it on and go "WOW". I have an Infocus X9 and a 120" screen and with Sky HD or Blu-ray it is absolutely phenominal, I would go as far as saying better the the cinema (home comforts and beer at my fingertips ). So please either increase your budget now or save up a bit longer and prepare to be wowed. I would suggest going somewhere for a demonstration to satisfy yourself.

As I have said I have already been swayed away from these brandless ebay PJ's with misleading spec. I have increased my initial budget and am now looking at used branded PJ's. In particular the Optoma HD65 with the hope of getting the firmware upgraded at some point to HD65-3D spec.

However, while we are on the subject of ebay (fireproof coat at the ready) what are the PJ Screens like?

Just a random example
2.5m 100" SNOWHITE Electric Projector WIDE SCREEN 16:9m on eBay (end time 18-Oct-09 13:53:02 BST)

[SteveCritten]

Thats where I got mine mate so they are OK.

[TheForge]

I purchased one of these cheap chinese LCD Projectors, I fell for the cheap bulbs and cheap price.

BIG Mistake.

They are not good for watching movies for the following reasons.

Resolution: Almost all of these projectors are VGA 800x600, if they state higher res then they will scale the higher res to fit the lower res screen. Stated Res is not always Native Res!

Contrast: The Contrast is Horrible, you have no chance of watching anything filmed in the dark or at night.

Build Quality: These products are often poorly made and as such tend to die, the warranty is normally with a factory in China so you have to send it there your self!

Noise: Due to the type of lamp these projectors use, they generate ALOT of heat, this heat needs lots of cooling. The end result is something that sounds like a vacuum cleaner and blows hot air like a hair dryer on full.

The only films i could bare to watch on the projector were high contrast Pixar/Disney films with my surround sound almost maxed out to cover the sound of the projectors fans.

I ended up not wanting to turn it on so it sat for months gather dust.

I am now a lucky owner of a Optoma HD65, it was a referb direct from Optoma so I got it for under £400. I am so happy with the HD65 and just wish I had not wasted my money on the LCD room heater.

The Forge

[kbfern]

As long as you don't expect super quality, as to get an electric screen of that size at that sort of money there has to be compromises made somewhere.

Screens can cost a bomb,so don't be surprised if a few months down the road you have some edge curl and a ripple or two.

Having said that you could spend £300-£500 and still have those problems.

Me,I would rather have a fixed screen that don't suffer from those problems and also a DIY job to boot so that it has not cost me the earth.

However not everyone can put up with an 8ft x 4ft grey fixed screen permanently on display.

[nwgarratt]

I have been very happy with the Panoview screens by Optoma. Mine was too only cost me £67 new on ebay.

I would make sure the screen is always put away when not in use to stop screen curl.