Z2 power cable question.

Kane D Williams · 30-12-2003, 9:49 AM

Hi there

Just got my Z2 from Fred (thanks mate) and discovered that it requires an unusual power cable connection. I had made a 10m cable with an IEC on the end, but it needs what looks like a figure of 8 but with a 3rd pin, ie, a mini IEC but with round pins! Does anyone know what this connection is called and where I can get a terminator to fix on the end of my 10m cable in place of the IEC?

BTW, first out of the box impressions of the Z2 where very good. I think the whites were being clipped a little, but Fred said it looked better than his machine (sorry Fred) in a few ways. There were no dead pixels or dust blobs, but I'm now dreading that switching on at my home will show loads of dust blobs from the car journey home and ceiling mounting procedure?

I have just received my Yamakawa 365, so will do a review soon!

pc99 · 30-12-2003, 11:03 AM

The connector is called a 'C5' or cloverleaf connector, and is also often found on laptops.

However I've had no luck finding a rewirable plug, only ready made leads (usually only a couple of metres long).

I ended up buy a cable connector and connecting the existing lead to a longer piece.

If you do find somewhere that sells rewirable plugs please let me know.

fred123go · 30-12-2003, 11:28 AM

thats alright Kane mate, hope you enjoy the projector!Yes i am very jealous, your configs 'out of the box' are a lot better than mine!but thats probably because mine was one of the first models. I think the configs get better the longer the pj has been in manufacture, as hopefully, the Sanyo departement of development do some of their own research!
Anyways enjoy the pj and i apologise because it was later than we first mentioned, i also hope the gf likes it!she blummin well should
cheers
fred

30-12-2003, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by fred123go
I think the configs get better the longer the pj has been in manufacture, as hopefully, the Sanyo departement of development do some of their own research!

Or maybe they just realised that their calibration technicians were red colour blind

Kane D Williams · 30-12-2003, 2:36 PM

Thanks PC99. So can I get a C5 to male IEC adapter?

Now a quick update: Just from throwing in a couple of movies, there does seem to be a bit of red push. However, this is less when the DVI input is set to RGB (PC Digital) as opposed to RGB (AV HDPC)! I would like to lower the red and believe setting #7 in the service menu is for that right? Can anyone tell me if they have tried #200 (REDGAIN) instead? How will contrast be effected by lowering the red?

I would also like to try to tame the whites as I think they are a little clipped at the moment? I would also like to make sure the blacks are not crushed and that I am seeing all the shadow detail I am meant to be seeing. Is #16-18 needed here? Unfortunately, my DVE has not arrived yet (2 weeks away), so I will have to use the THX Optimizer.

BTW, the 9m DVI cable from Cable Solutions (Ebay) works a treat! I have to have my 365DivX set to 480p (DVI) for the projector to sync, but then I can toggle to 720p output from the player and all is well! 1080i works fine too and in fact, it is 480p that is not right - it is squashed to the left of the screen with a blue image on the right???

fred123go · 30-12-2003, 2:39 PM

kane what buttons do you press to get into the factory settings or the one where #14 is to do with vb.
cheers mate
fred

buns · 30-12-2003, 3:18 PM

Kane,

On what do you base your red push comment? Red whites? Red low greys?

If you are seeing red whites, it is less likely that the red is being clipped than if the white was a bit blue. Play with the contrast and see what the red or other colors seem to do, it would be interesting if indeed you had freedom and werent clipping the red at default. But if you arent, you must be clipping something else..... in any case, bolt the contrast down and see.

Service 7 is the red gain, lowering it will lower the high IRE reds, but you might need then to adjust the gamma (#10) correspondingly. I havent played with #200 or 16-18, the colorfacts guys told me only to use 1-3/7-9/10-12. 10-12 being the gamma and helping the shadow as far as i can gather.

So far, i have seen need to put contrast down before i even start, so i advise this is best start, say -10. Until you have patterns, leave service alone, it is hard by eye with the patterns, almost impossible without.

Fred,

service 13-15 will all effect the VB as will factory 14 which is accessed through input and select together.

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Kane D Williams · 30-12-2003, 4:17 PM

Buns,

I will lower the contrast later and tell you what I think. The red push comment was with reference to skin tones on Catch Me If You Can R1. They appeared very red on exterior and interior scenes, but I will have a look at more stuff later. So is your advice to not touch the Service Menu stuff until I get DVE? What do I need to press for the Service Menu? Is there anything in the Factory Menu that I could play with? I will write down any changes I make. Is there a button to return to the default Factory settings?

Thanks

BTW. Can anyone suggest why RGB PC would be less red than RGB AV? I believe that it has been confirmed that these settings have nothing to do with colour standards right? I believe that the Yamakawa is outputting Video levels, so does this mean the blacks and whites will be wrong anyway or does the Z2 adjust to the signal? If it does have some auto adjustment, this would result in the red shift?

buns · 30-12-2003, 5:47 PM

The problem is simply that any changes are nothing more than a guess..... you can try, just be expectant to get it totally wrong!

That said, its still going to be difficult by eye with dve..... but more accurate to a degree i guess.

Try and play with the user colors and see what happens....

in the factory, i dont know anything useful, but surely there is somewhere? If you were going to play, id suggest that you play in service where you can only get things totally wrong as opposed ti entirely screwed in the factory! And to answer..... no way back to defaults that i know...... defaulting will NOT return all values to what they were when you got it....

The pc rgb/hdcp is confusing..... maybe something to do with the video/rgb color levels already mentioned elsewhere? I havent really checked, but it seems that the service alters the dvi settings.... but doesnt seem to differentiate between the 2 modes.

what color is your room btw?

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Kane D Williams · 30-12-2003, 7:21 PM

Buns,

Have you tried swiching between PC and AV on the DVI input? I'm 100% sure there is a red colour difference with the red less intense in PC mode. I will try to confirm this later and make sure the drop in colour is not global (R, G & B) and get back to you. If you put your Z2 into AV (HDCP) mode, you may find you have enough red to calibrate correctly!?

BTW, my room is Yello, which I know is not the best for a Home Cinema room, but...

PS. Anyone know where I can get something like this for less than £6.50 (inc delivery)?

http://custom1.farnell.com/cpc/produ...PL%2DIEC473266

Kane D Williams · 30-12-2003, 7:21 PM

My ceiling is white BTW and my carpet mid green! Yes we rent!! HaHa.

buns · 30-12-2003, 11:16 PM

I did have a flick into the av hdcp..... so i cant deny there is something going on there..... i have been settled to films lately, so havent been calibrating but will get back to it and take a few measurements

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Kane D Williams · 30-12-2003, 11:21 PM

Buns,

I have set my PJ like this:

Iris is about 3/4 open and lamp is on low.
Red -7
Green +3
Blue +3
Contrast -10
Brightness -12

I had to step up the Gamma to +3 or +4 to watch all those dark scenes in Crouching tiger. Man that is a dark film, and my 'torture' movie for PJ's! I also switched to RGB-PC as this helped the naturalness of the colours and red in particular. Both Spiderman (R2) and Any Given Sunday (R1) had very, very red skintones prior to adjustment.

Can you tell me what 'damage' I may have done to shadow and light detail and greyscale? I know it will be a guess. I think I am hiding some shadow detail, but not too much. T2 EE looked the best I have seen it in my home!

Cheers

PS, I know this thread is now off topic, which thresd should I be communicating this stuff in???

buns · 30-12-2003, 11:58 PM

Kane,

If you are bothered, just start another one up..... i cant see any reason why it doesnt deserve one!

It sounds like you really are seeing redness..... the thought that I had was that you were seeing it at low IRE and it was confusing matters..... but the drop in contrast and decrease in user red would (should) have dropped if not elliminated this. At a guess, you could try the service setting #7 and decrease it in about 5 point steps. This should (again it should....) help if your red is high. I would also suggest that you consider adjusting the gamma (#10) up 1 point for every 10 you change #7. This is, as i said, going to be very very difficult without patterns, but if you record your settings and are careful, you shouldnt be able to do any harm. Another thing to note..... you need to exit service mode to see the real effect the changes have made, there is some artificial additions whilst within the mode so you cant trust it til you are out (to get out you just press power on remote).

How did you decide to set the brightness? My brightness is high by approximately the same amount as the contrast is low (and no.... im not happy about this!). If im right and our machines perform at all similarly, then the reason things look dark would be simply because they are..... you could be crushing black detail. Try putting it up and see what the shadow detail looks like. But remember, absolute black level WILL suffer as you do this, so dont be too put off when you see it happen.

As you are seeing, playing is the best way to do it..... even playing with patterns isnt guaranteed..... i have seen one or two people complain that they cant actually see the alterations with patterns...... gamma for example..... i can certainly understand where that guy was coming from!

enjoy!

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ps. what firmware have you? it will say when you go into the service....101 or 103?

Kane D Williams · 31-12-2003, 7:50 AM

Thanks Buns

This is all great help. I will check the firmware soon. With regards to brightness, I simply used the THX Optimizer (T2 EE). I set it so that the drop shadow on the THX logo just dissapeared into the background. Well I actually think I could just still make it out, as I didn't want to darken the picture too much, but I will check this again, as it could be that I did go too far, or that after then, lowering the Red may have taken the brightness it too far?

Do you have Crouching Tiger? How does it look on your Z2? I'm not quite sure just how much of the shadow detail is meant to be hidden, as it really is a dark looking film, even the daylight shots have a lot of shadows and dark corners etc and I think this is the creative style of the movie? When I raise the Gamma to +7, I can see all the detail in the carved fireplaces and chairs etc, but at 0, there is none and +3 just gives a hint of some of it. I will look at this film again once I have checked the brightness, but Grouching Tiger does illustrate the poorness of LCD blacks!

Cheers

buns · 31-12-2003, 1:53 PM

Well i have a feeling we have machines which arent playing the same. Not suggesting either is at fault, just different.

Using the THX on POTC, i can clearly enough see the primary thx logo at my setting.... but i cant see the shadow even at high brightness (i can think of plenty of reasons but and trying not to). If i were down at your brightness, i would have no chance of seeing the logo..... just a black screen. Of course, i have changed settings dramatically, so maybe this is why we are seeing things differently.

I do have CTHD but havent watched it. I'll have a look when i get a chance. I assume when you zap up the gamma that the picture is generally looking washed out? My feeling with mine is that it does look a bit washed out when right, but i guess this is a result of the black level. If you can see the detail faintly and smoothly, then you probably arent a million miles away.... alot of the detail is meant to be subtle, overexaggerating is a bad thing in my view.

Sorry this is so imprecise, hopefully it will be better once your disc arrives!

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Kane D Williams · 31-12-2003, 5:53 PM

Buns,

Are you sure your DVD player (HCPC) passes PLUGE? If it does, I'm wondering if your DVI output is at the wrong colour reference (PC v's video thing)? This would explain why you (and a few others) have a lack of RED to play with at high IRE's and others like me seem to have it in spades? It may be worth you investing in a Yamakawa 365 or Momitsu or something to try this out. I know it's another 120 quid, but I'm sure you could sell it on for not much less if it is of no benefit?

I'd hate to think that you are putting youself through all this anguish to achieve the impossible!

pc99 · 01-01-2004, 11:16 AM

The only C5 connectors I have found are prewired to a 1 or 2 metre lead like this one here

http://rswww.com/cgi-bin/bv/browse/M...tockNo=3119359

So you might as well just cut the 13amp plug off your Z2 lead and connect it to a longer piece of cable with one of these from Maplin.

Flex Connector Product Code: HL61R

buns · 01-01-2004, 2:50 PM

Kane,

its not anguish anymore, the picture is very good at the moment for me. Unfortunately I cant afford to go spending anything much beyond a filter! Credit card bill wil both Z2 and colorfacts needs paid in 10 days

Are you using pc digital or av hdcp? the latter i assume..... i looked and it actually appeared green to me.... i'll check it later on

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markbro · 01-01-2004, 7:14 PM

So you might as well just cut the 13amp plug off your Z2 lead and connect it to a longer piece of cable with one of these from Maplin.

Any warranty implications here, as I want to run my power lead through LMP mount, through half inch tubing, but need to take the plug off for this.

Kane D Williams · 01-01-2004, 7:44 PM

Buns,

I was using AV HDPC, but I'm now switched to PC, as this seems more natuaral colour wise!? I am off to play a bit more soon and then watch a movie!

Markbro,
You can always buy a new cable and butcher that one instead. They are about £5 from Lindy and Expansys. Expansys have some very useful adapters etc BTW.