[Nashou66]

Ok have been messing around some more with Rodan-O-Blend :D I still have the magnetics to work on and have not touched Schleimflug at all. Also I still have to color/grayscale match both Pj's. On some shots you'll see the Blend Zone but it is a bit more visible in person, opposite from the last time where the pics revealed it more.

Using a Fiji FinePix F10 set to Night mode which allows long exposers
it figures out automatically.

These are from DVE and the New Spears & whatchamacalit disc

On some of these you'll see the blend Zone, this is the Spears disc:

Athanasios

[Tom.W]

A bit more work and you should be able to nail it !

[Swiss-Steve]

Nice start, now stop teasing us and get those babies fired up properly


Is the aspect ratio correct?? seems off a little, as in people look tall?? or is it the movie that you put up??



Also there seems something wrong, and you need to send them to me to upgrade for the next 6 months, Jealous



Cheers
Steve

[Nashou66]

Did some more work on them, But realized I still have some motion issues in the blend zone. If not done right it looks like a heat wave affect as thing pass through. It must be different linearity between PJ's. well hers the latest shot.

nashou

[Nashou66]

Well I redid the set up but with out the magnets, I was thinking about the motion artifacts in the Blend zone and figured it had to be linearity. So i pulled out the ruler and began measuring The circles were way off on the right sides of both PJ's so I began using the C and S linearity to get them as close as possible then i also used the Vertical Linearity to center the image. vertically as I realized it was off and so were the Grid squares in size from top to bottom. One thing I did different on the Scaler side was while doing the convergence i kept all adjustments off so the entire image was on each side of the screen, i did each PJ individually with no convergence in the zone between the two. After I was done i figured the two inner circles in the corners of the grids shold be close in over lap, well they were apart by at least an inch an a half. I guess this is to be expected with no zoom involved. But from past blend attempts I noticed that in the source menu there was a 1:1 pixel selection and from memory it zoomed the image quite a bit. So when I selected it i noticed that the image zoomed right to where it should be for a blend, it was off ever so slightly. So with out going into the windows adjustments where the zoom is( except for the image pan for each side to line up at the outer edge) brought up both sides of the image and began to converge the overlap zone to each other measuring the circle all around as i went to make sure no linearity was needed, it was on the right PJ to bring in the one side of the circle as it was about 3/4 inch larger in radius toward the right side. I fixed this as best I could with out altering the rest of the placement of the image. I then put up the smaller 1.5 inch grids frm the AVSHD disc to to the final touch up. Now i went into the Keyers for the blending and turned on each side of the blend and then turned on the edge blend guides and lined up the green to the reds to make it yellow. I wound up with a 207 pixel blend zone. And now there is no heat wave effect in the blend zone and the zone is almost completely gone maybe about 90% there!!!

Here a few pics of the results, i think the contrast modulation needs some touch up as well as the color matching but damn it looks the best i have seen so far.

Still More work to do but I am learning a lot, thanks to Mike Parker and Bob Stephan for there help with all this, And Gino too for the color Matching Idea.

Athanasios

[Mad Mr H]

Looking good .

Linearity is key in the blend,

Contrast modulation is the next main item,

Then colour balance.


Using a large(r) blend area helps the blend zone, the bit depth of the blend zone is one of the items I have asked TVONE to look at , it needs to be increased to give a more linear roll off, you can see stepping in some test images.


I am just finishing off my new audio system, then going back to setup the cine9 blend - this time with TVONE 2250a units replacing the TVONE 7200, and a pair of Lumagen HDQ units with 11 point gamma control - TVONE have a request for up to 100 point grayscale R/G/B control but to date this has not been written, and with the Credit Crunch I would guess its become a low priority item.

TVONE have always added my requests into the firmware so I feel it only fair to say they give excellent support to a product where very few actually push the limits .

Good to hear Gino & Bob are helping you.

[Mad Mr H]

Looked at a couple of the pictures......

just try and move the edges of the blend zone.

Dont go for the "yellow" perfect position, just run the zone a little wider try it with the guidelines "OFF" , you can always go back.....

just on the edges of the "zone" I noticed an intensity change - the Cont Mod will help this but in order to maintain a high light output you can nudge the zone so there is an over lap......not too much.

Might be worth a try, The pictures don't match what you see in the real image.

You are very close.

I got the blend 100% perfect for any image over about 3-5IRE all the way to 100IRE

A very low level of a constant light level image the blend would just become visible.


ALSO - Worth a note........Move the image of each PJ right to the edge of the tube - the edge that the blend is on.

WHY? IF you don't then if you get an image wit a bright lamp it lights the area outside of the active area and this is seen on screen.......So I run the active area hard to the edge of the tube.

The geometry means you might not be able to the entire image flat to the side of the tube but I hope I explained this well enough !!!

I also found that my HD DVD (XA2 or XE1) gave a much better black level than my Denon 3800 Blu ray - this was seen in the blend zone.....

Thats about all I can think of for help at the mo.......

Glad to see another blend in the world .


Just remembered.....

Is you screen unity gain?
My original was 1.3 gain and you saw colour shift.

The new StewartFilm unity gain took me one step closer to 100% perfection.......

This time I hope to nail the very low IRE blend area

Andy.

[Nashou66]

Thanks for the tips Andy, I think for now I'll leave the image on the tube face where it is, it took a lot of work to do what I accomplished so far. maybe you should visit the AVSforum TV-One thread and re post this info there.

Athanasios

[Mad Mr H]

Hi,

I am the same "Mad Mr H" that started the AVS thread .

Andy H.

[Nashou66]

Originally Posted by Mad Mr H

Hi,

I am the same "Mad Mr H" that started the AVS thread .

Andy H.

yes I know Andy...

Athanasios

[Nashou66]

Originally Posted by Mad Mr H

Looked at a couple of the pictures......

just try and move the edges of the blend zone.

Dont go for the "yellow" perfect position, just run the zone a little wider try it with the guidelines "OFF" , you can always go back.....

just on the edges of the "zone" I noticed an intensity change - the Cont Mod will help this but in order to maintain a high light output you can nudge the zone so there is an over lap......not too much.

Might be worth a try, The pictures don't match what you see in the real image.



Just remembered.....

Is you screen unity gain?
My original was 1.3 gain and you saw colour shift.

The new StewartFilm unity gain took me one step closer to 100% perfection.......

This time I hope to nail the very low IRE blend area

Andy.

What do you mean by Nudge?

Yes I have a DaLite 1.2 or 1,3 screen I can't remember but I think I am going for a unity gain Hurley screen. I think that might help with the light intensity change in the blend zone, I have a 12" Sqr sample I'll put over one side of the zone to see if it helps.

Athanasios

[Mad Mr H]

I went with stewartfilm unity gain - designed for use in blending from back in the day when CRT was the only major projection option.


Re "Nudge" - by that I mean move the guideline "A little" . its really trial and error for each system, for me about 2 inch was enough , but this changes as I moved the cont. mod. settings.

In a couple of weeks I will be able to give better details as my blend should be back in test mode.......

Andy.

[Nashou66]

Well I worked on the Schiemflug last night and tonight, then did a global focus and another convergence, I still have an area in the bottom of the blend zone I just cant converge!!! I tried everything, s linearity, c linearity, skew,keystone top bottom keystone, V bow,H bow, Bottom Pin nothing would get those points to converge and also on the right PJ , where the convergence is giving me **** i can not get the left bottom to go flat, I get a hump, I tried Green convergence to straighten it out but no go. I will try an initialization when I have time on that PJ and start over. I wish we could get
more points of convergence. Oh well. I still have not done ant blend zone colorimetry work yet as I want to get the alignment down perfect before i go crazy in that section. Scott mentioned some bad convergence yokes making into some sets, i wonder if that could be it on this PJ?

One thing I discovered with this set up is because the proximity of the PJ to screen and angle i have to allow for the rear row to see the whole top of the image. I had to remove the red caps on the Schiemflug adjusters to allow proper focus on the bottom left corners. But I have to say I have become very good at this. Once i figured out exactly what each turn of the screws did in and out and to what part of the screen they altered i was able to do a tube in about 10 minutes. First one took a good hour :D I should have taken notes on this, i'll probably revisit these again so then i'll take nots on what i did but in the dark its not that easy to document it all.

So here are some screenies of Twilight. this Movie was shot with extremely grainy film for effect and it also has a grey cast to it overall, like muted colors with bright colors here and there. I watched this on my M8000 before and never noticed the film grain, i always thought it was just a bad transfer, not too sharp. but on this setup i can see the grain
clear as day.

Athanasios

[Swiss-Steve]

Looking very nice. Screen shots look good, will be awsome once calibrated.

I think that if the re-initialization does not work, then look at the convergence coil.


Fingers crossed the re-initialization fixes the issue.




Cheers
Steve

[Nashou66]

Originally Posted by Swiss-Steve

Looking very nice. Screen shots look good, will be awsome once calibrated.

I think that if the re-initialization does not work, then look at the convergence coil.


Fingers crossed the re-initialization fixes the issue.




Cheers
Steve

I hope it does and I think it has to be something like that because its on all
the colors i think, not just the green. I think i will initialize both sets one more time, use low frequency and internal grids to get electronic and optical focus and scheimflug down perfectly. then raise internal frequencies to the point its almost the same as my external source and tweak the electronic focus in each zone doing all this before any geometry or convergence
down perfectly found that different frequencies can alter electronic focus some. Steve do you know if different focus settings are saved for each memory block? if not they should do that .

Then I'll redo the external source alignment.

nashou

[Boris Blank]

Gorgeous Nash, really coming on well. I'm jealous mate, thats already a superb setup that will only get better!

Well done! Definitely worth the blood sweat and back-ache

[Nashou66]

Foo Fighters at Wembley Stadium !!!

[Tom.W]

Now where did that blend zone go ?

[Nashou66]

Originally Posted by Tom.W

Now where did that blend zone go ?

Its still there but this material was perfect for not seeing it!!! Great Show,wish i was there.

Athanasios

[Nashou66]

Ok did the CPC mags on the right PJ, next is to tweak out the Schiemflug . Then work on the CMM cards so the vertical bars are not there.( The New CMM cards cause some issues, more info on my thread on Curtpalme's site)

Andy where the hell are you man!!!, We need to get Tv-One working on these issues and the 256 point gamma Control!!!

Athanasios

[Mad Mr H]

I'm here .


When I sent structured feature requests to TVONE nearly all were actioned.

Recently people have been "TELLING" TV One what they MUST do..........That's never going to work!

There is a process to follow, it was working well.

The products are still moving forward but customer "Demands" I dont think are helping the cause.............



From you FIRST pictures I think the contrast modulation needs attention as I can see hot spots, That will help the blend lots.

Your last pictures I can't tell much from. Can you take the same shots as the first pictures again?

(I don't spend much time on forums at the mo..........)

[Nashou66]

Originally Posted by Mad Mr H

I'm here .


When I sent structured feature requests to TVONE nearly all were actioned.

Recently people have been "TELLING" TV One what they MUST do..........That's never going to work!

There is a process to follow, it was working well.

The products are still moving forward but customer "Demands" I dont think are helping the cause.............



From you FIRST pictures I think the contrast modulation needs attention as I can see hot spots, That will help the blend lots.

Your last pictures I can't tell much from. Can you take the same shots as the first pictures again?

(I don't spend much time on forums at the mo..........)

Yeah, Im guilty as charged. But its frustrating. its soo close to being a perfect product.

Have you noticed the edge blend guides are also still visible even when shut off?


Athanasios

[Nashou66]

Still not Calibrated so its pushing Blue, a little bit more red on the right PJ as well.
Not sure what I am doing wrong with the iOne Pro but i am not getting the proper readings.
If i go by what the probe says everything goes brownish red mid IREs and yellow greenish Higher IRE's

BTW these Discs are a must Have, I thought the special editions of each movie spread out on 4 SD DVDS that have less compression looked good. these rock!

Athanasios

[Nashou66]

I thought id post some screen shots of
my latest attempt. I am convinced no that with perfect color calibration a seamless blend is possible even with the slight issues of these units. Most of the troubles I believe are my lack of patients in doing a better matching of the two Pj's. I still have not mastered that aspect yet but I am getting closer and closer. A pro calibrating both to match is the best bet. But for now funds are tight and this is dome with an Eye One display 2 and ten touched up by eye. the Probe is off and i had to get whites corrected by eye.

remember this is a 12 foot wide screen

Enjoy.....

Athanasios

[Nashou66]

Hi Guys, I finally got the Radiance XS's hooked up and figured out some bugs in Calman v4. I still have an issue where my i1 pro does not like to read the 75% IRE red to well. So i will attempt another calibration with all 100% gamut windows. i had to turn the probe to face the screen with no filter to get a decent consistent reading and adjustment. And then i checked again facing the screen and it actually read a bit better but still not each time.

I did a couple runs on the left PJ and only one on the right. there is a slight luminance difference and that makes a huge difference in getting a perfect blend zone. But this is by far the best i have had it. And with no Zone contrast modulation done. I still have to decide how i want to tackle that one. To bad Calman v4 did not interact with the marquee and two probes to do the zone contrast. I think I need andre to write the code for that

So for now this is the best I got, and the usual suspects screen shots of my favorite reference disc The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince caspian.

My Personal favorite screen frame to use.

More to come, didn't want to fill up one post.

[Tom.W]

Looks great so far !

[Nashou66]

Well zone contrast modulation is a Must!!!!!!

I know I always say this but this is the best for sure!! Just have to tweak out the 100 IRE gamma and a few spots in between.

I also have a slight linearity issue in the center. I messed something up when sitting on the remote with my fat ass and lost the settings and I never saved the file in the Marquee loader

I also found that my DIY HCFR meter worked better in the low end with HCFR than CalMan or Chromapure and the i 1 Pro or my Chroma 5 probe. I say this cause it was more stable with in readings, not as much jumping around. id it is as accurate or not i can't say but Id rather have consistent readings in the low end then erratic.

The Radiance XS's also helped out more than you know and a PM from Ken Whitcomb to solidify and confirm my workflow process.

I used the radiance internal patterns in calman and the marquee controller program to first get 30 and 100 % windows close on each PJ. hen i went back and checked the 30 % window with Green only ad measured the luma, i moved the probe over and matched the other PJ's green 30 % luma. I then did the same with 100% green's luma, using G2 and Drive respectfully.

I then redid 30 and 100 % RGB in the PJ. now I moved to zone contrast, i set a 100% window and lowered contrast to
30 from 50. Here i used the marquee controller Program and did each color at the top , center and bottom edges where the blend zone would be. Blend zone is off of course and using a full field pattern. I did this on both PJ's. then I went back and raised contrast to 50 and then did the same thing in the zones but with white on not only each color and used the marquee controller program to do RGB contrast in each zone in the blend area. The Marquee controller program is awesome cause you never see any menu on the screen to contaminate your readings. You can select the zone to work on and the color to adjust all on one screen, just awesome!!!

After that was done I redid the center 30 and 100% white windows with the pattern not sized for the raster but put into full blend configuration but with the blend zone off. This put the window patterns in the center of the screen where the blend zone is. I put the probe there and redid the PJ RGB at those %'s mentioned above.

Once that was done i was surprised to see how well even with no radiance greyscale done the blend zone was!!!

So now I did the Greyscale interactive mode with CalMan v4.1 and the radiance XS. did that and getting 20 and 10 % sucks that way. Still got the erratic readings at 10 more than 20 so I decided to try my home made probe and HCFR and do it manually. I then adjusted Contrast and Brightness on both PJ's .

Got that done just now and took some pics

I used a gamma of 2.35 but have to tweak it out. I might try 2.25, or 2.3
and see how it all looks. But for now I am very happy.

Athanasios

[Nashou66]

Had Analogrocks over last night from Curt palmes Forum.
What he saw was about the same as i will show now but
I had some issues and tonight i worked them out. I also
gained 5 inches in screen width!! Long story and its posted
over oon Curts site. But here are my latest.

Blendzilla look out!!!! :D

Now that i have it basically done i want to try using 96 hz instead of 72hz.

More work, but I just have to try


Athanasios ,

North East self proclaimed Blend master