[leeboy2k3]

Hi I'd like some setup advice for my barco808s its my 1st crt projector, firstly I have done many hours of reading but because Iam using my wii for web browsing at the mo Ive been unable to read an installation/setup pdf.

It'll be seated about 12.5ft from a yet to be purchased 16:9 screen, It'll hopefully be used with everything down from old games consoles via transcoder up to my new 920i7 HTPC.

Ive read a lot things like how important it is to align the raster evenly over the phosphour to prevent tube wear and implosion, and using the test patterns to calibrate convergence, but I dont know how much a 1st time crt noobie setup is done via digital osd or how quickly I'll be wielding a plastic screwdriver.

lastly how vital is purchasing a scalar for my needs as Im on a limited budget.. for example if I switch inputs with differing resolutions will I have to constantly recalibrate?

Mucho help appreciated lol.

[Chris Frost]

Are you looking for the answers that you want to hear, or are you looking for the truth?

[Tom.W]

You could start by deleting all blocks. See the Barco faq sticky. Next read this.

Moe's Home Theater: How to Focus and Setup Your CRT Projector

Also get a test pattern disc such as Avia and forget about the internal test patterns for now.

Do you plan to use NTSC or PAL ?

[leeboy2k3]

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

Are you looking for the answers that you want to hear, or are you looking for the truth?

That sounds ominous the truth obviously

[leeboy2k3]

Originally Posted by Tom.W

You could start by deleting all blocks. See the Barco faq sticky. Next read this.

Moe's Home Theater: How to Focus and Setup Your CRT Projector

Also get a test pattern disc such as Avia and forget about the internal test patterns for now.

Do you plan to use NTSC or PAL ?

Thanks.. re ntsc n pal not sure what to say on that point as I have so much source variety tho I guess my HTPC will be used the most, btw my gfx card is a pcolor ati4890.

I'd like to use older low rez 15khz consoles aswell as xbox360 n ps3 if possible/practical?

[Tom.W]

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

Are you looking for the answers that you want to hear, or are you looking for the truth?

Not sure where Chris was going with this post but maybe he was referring to a scaler but you will be using an HTPC.

1080i@60hz NTSC from say a BR player through an HD fury and no HTPC or scaler is needed. The PAL format requires custom porch settings though...

[leeboy2k3]

And older games consoles ps2 xbox dreamcast etc.. will they be look ok with their low rez interlaced 15khz or will I need a scaler for them?

Btw I dont mind scanlines as I run an arcade machine on an arcade vga card low rez progressive 320x240 256x224 for example tho obviously a lot smaller crt lol.

[Barcoing Mad]

So long as time lag isn't a problem (I'm not a game splayer, so never checked), shove a Sweetspot capture card into your HTPC and run your sources into that. Download Dscaler, Powerstrip and ReClock and set up a custom resolution or two. 1280x720p at 75Hz/72Hz wouldn't be a bad one.

[leeboy2k3]

Originally Posted by Barcoing Mad

So long as time lag isn't a problem (I'm not a game splayer, so never checked), shove a Sweetspot capture card into your HTPC and run your sources into that. Download Dscaler, Powerstrip and ReClock and set up a custom resolution or two. 1280x720p at 75Hz/72Hz wouldn't be a bad one.

Good idea but wouldnt that mean havin p.c. and console on at same time?
My new HTPC pc is an i7 920 with ati4890gfx, all three combined would be a kwh monster! lol..
Where as a seperate scaler would draw less power.. though I know there not cheap.

Ive only previously owned 1 scaler it was an x-rgb3 by micomsoft, it was pgood for just under £200 tho.. its output scales were 1024x768 1280x1024 or 1600x1200 which I guess in the barco's case is not flexible enough?

[Chris Frost]

Originally Posted by leeboy2k3

That sounds ominous the truth obviously

LOL

Hopefully not too ominous...

What you want to hear is probably something along these lines...

No, you don't need a scaler. Everything is going to look just great fed in directly. Yes, CRTs are a piece of cake to set up. Do it yourself and your result will be every bit as good as a professional install

Of course the reality is something quite different

DIY vs Pro set up service

It's certainly possible to set up your own CRT. There are enough folk here that have done just that. But if you ask them then the honest ones will say that it's a lot of hard work and very time consuming. They didn't get it perfect on the first, second, third or fourth time setting up. Some have invested hundreds of hours researching and tweaking to get things right. Others give up and settle for an OK'ish picture. In the worst cases the CRT becomes a bit of an embarrassment because it's never finished.

Buying in some expertise is cheaper in the long run. You get the system working properly, to its optimum, and relatively quickly. You also have some back up and support. The net is great for general info, but it can't replace an experienced installer working on site.

HTPC vs Scaler

I can recall visiting only one install where a HTPC worked correctly, and that was because the guy spent so much time tweaking it. More often than not they turn out to be more trouble than they're worth.

A decent s/h scaler such as a Lumagen (HDP or HDQ) or a DVDO VP50 / VP50Pro will be more flexible, easier to configure, work more reliably and probably cost a lot less. No solution is perfect, but a scaler makes more sence if you just want to sit down and enjoy a film without hassle.

HD direct from a BR player or console.

Honest answer - a waste of time. Your 808s needs a custom resolution (the sweet spot) that these devices just can't produce.

24p compatibility

Forget it with a direct feed from a BR player. You need a scaler.

Film is 24 frames a second (in round figures) and anything other than a refresh rate of 24, 48 or 72Hz means repeating frames to get the picture to sync at 50 or 60Hz. This means judder on pans and motion. 1080p 24 uses a 48Hz refresh rate. This is too slow for CRT and it causes noticeable flicker. What you want is 1080p24 converted to the sweet spot resolution and running at 72Hz. The result is solid images with smooth motion. You need a scaler to do this.

What's the point of all of this?...
You have a really good projector. It deserves to be driven correctly and set up right to give its best. Partnering a great CRT with cheap ancillaries is a false economy, as is any make-do or temporary setup. They go quickly from being temporary to becoming permanent.

CRTs are incredibly good value right now, but that doesn't mean they're any less complicated to set up than when they cost £15,000 - £20,000. If anything there's more work involved because they're older and may have been abused. The difference between s/h CRTs and s/h digitals is that CRTs really reward the effort taken in setup.

Setting a realistic budget and justifying the investment is often the hardest task. An 808s with a good scaler would have been a reference level system a few short years ago. Now you can get this performance for between £2000 and £3000 installed. Now that's what I call value

[leeboy2k3]

Great post chris I thank you for your help.. believe me I havent bought a barco on impulse.

I like many cant quite make the switch to digital smoothly, I use crt everyday for web browsing and retro and modern gaming, and coming from a 80'/90's slant find every crt alternative wanting for the usual reasons..
The rigidity of digital fixed resolution i.e. for older crt low rez gaming a lack of 3-d image perception i.e. poor contrast/black level digital panels/pj's under 3 grand.

So at the very least I want to go the scalar route and give the crt pj a shot.

Btw Im open to a setup offer from any crt jedi that wont leave me bankrupt.. lol

[Barcoing Mad]

Agree with Chris...except that HTPC can make a very good SD scaler without a lot of effort - maybe I was just plain lucky, but Sweetspot +Dscaler4+Reclock+Powerstrip kept me happy until HD came along.

Buying in expertise is a good idea - I've had enough projectors over the years to have been lucky a couple of times - the things have just needed intelligent set-up and have performed to 90%+. Whereas others have needed replacement bits and bobs, and by the time you've identified which bit, where to get it, and how to replace it, you may as well have called in the man who can. Unless, of course, playing with projectors is to be a hobby for you - that's where a few of the pro's started!

Speaking of kWh monsters - the Barco will pull some current as well.

[leeboy2k3]

Are there any crt pj setup guru's in this section who do callouts/setup visit?

[Pulse1]

Originally Posted by leeboy2k3

Are there any crt pj setup guru's in this section who do callouts/setup visit?

Chris Frost is your man

[audimushroom]

Originally Posted by Pulse1

Chris Frost is your man

I'll second that, Chris did a fantastic job on my 1208 a few months back...

[ovation1357]

Originally Posted by leeboy2k3

It'll be seated about 12.5ft from a yet to be purchased 16:9 screen, It'll hopefully be used with everything down from old games consoles via transcoder up to my new 920i7 HTPC.

Hi Lee,
Has anyone advised you about screen distances yet? The lenses on CRT Projectors are 'prime' lenses which means that they have a fixed focal length. It is imperative that the projector is exactly the correct distance to produce the size of image required. i.e. if the front of the projector is 12.5ft away from the screen, the 16:9 screen will need to be approx 9ft wide. You could electronically shrink the picture in that scenario to make it fit a smaller screen, but then you'll be using less area on the tube face, which reduces resolution and may cause the tube to wear more quickly. If you don't want or can't have a screen that size, then the projector needs to be moved closer to the screen.

Have you considered the option of Ceiling mounting it? IMO it's worth every bit of effort as it saves valuable floor space and you don't get people walking in front of it. MrH might still have some ceiling mounts for sale, or you can construct one using uni-strut. MrH supplied me with Uni-Strut for my Graphics 800 and it works well.

If you've got access to a windows pc then you can download and install the old barco 'lens' program which calculates the instalation measurements for you and produces a diagram.

There's an extra consideration on the Seos 808s units we've both bought - They have some wear on the Blue and Green tubes. This means that we ideally need our pictures to be within the existing area of wear because any 'virgin' phosphor used outside this area will be brighter and will look odd on screen. Unfortunately wth the previous curved screen application this means that the wear has a curved bottom-edge and that could be a nuisance. We've got to get these babies past the scan fail first - then if you can afford it it's worth getting a pro install. Personally, I can't but then I love getting my hands dirty with them, so it's not really a problem :-)

Cheers
Jonathan

[Chris Frost]

Thanks for your input, Jonathan.

leeboy2k3 and I have spent a looong time discussing the in's and out's of his potential install. He'd already made his screen purchase by the time we started our discussions. Ceiling mounting isn't an option for him unfortunately. I have talked him through checking the wear pattern and gauging the useable phosphor area and it's effect on the projection distance.

I think his biggest challenge now is getting the SEOS modded projector into a useable state ready for a flat screen install.

[leeboy2k3]

Thanks john and chris I am humbled by the vital help I have received since taking the crt plunge, I love the picture crt gives and hopefully this scenario will have a happy conclusion.

The seos entry method is proving a headache especially for a crt pj noob like me..it is in nice condition tho lol.