which colour/gain screen?? I'm confused.com!!

sparkymarky · 28-02-2009, 10:09 AM

hmmm.

I was all set to buy a matt white screen, something like the sapphire parklane 106".

However having just received my pj and fired it up, at night with no lamps on, the whole room is lit up with reflections. all three walls in fact plus ceiling. Whilst its not as bright as when you turn a lamp on the room is still illuminated. i dont know if this is normal or not?

The walls are cream coloured and the ceiling is white as here:

and here:

The whites and colours look great to me and the blacks in the centre of the screen look fine. However at the sides they look washed out and a light grey colour.
I assume the reflections are doing this.

1. I don't know if the black borders on a white screen will help reduce this a bit? OR is this just something i have to expect- its by no means terrible but i find myself playing with the brightness setting on the pj to just try and get it a bit better

2. If not, what screen am i best off going for to help combat this in terms of screens gain/contrast?? And what are the disadvantage of using a type that you suggest-theres bound to be some i expect!

The room itself cannot be altered with felt or anything.

thanks

mark

sparkymarky · 28-02-2009, 10:36 AM

after reading this i'm thinking grey may be better for me?? but at what gain?
0.8?? i assume the hd65 which i think is quite a bright pj @ 1600 ANSI Lumens should be ok with this??
This one has caught my eye but i wary of draper screens after reading a lot of bad feedback http://www.cvsmedia.co.uk/shop/manua...7105-2825.html

The article says quite categorically that a grey screen would be better in a home cineam/lounge where the walls aren't black/colour controlled.
I don't want sparklies/hotspots/reducing viewing cone angle so the panowolf witha gain of 1.8 is ptobaly out of it for me.

So, would a grey screen with 0.8 gain be an in the 'middle' compromise between a white matte being the worst for my room in terms of washout and a grey high gain being ultimately the best but with disadvantages? i always like to compromise in the middle of things!!
would anyone disagree with this?

custard10 · 28-02-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkymarky

after reading this i'm thinking grey may be better for me?? but at what gain?
0.8?? i assume the hd65 which i think is quite a bright pj @ 1600 ANSI Lumens should be ok with this??
This one has caught my eye but i wary of draper screens after reading a lot of bad feedback 234cm x 132cm (106") Draper Luma Manual Home Cinema Screen 16:9 High Contrast Model: 207105

The article says quite categorically that a grey screen would be better in a home cineam/lounge where the walls aren't black/colour controlled.

would anyone disagree with this?

i most definitely agree that the grey route is your best bet with the ambient light problem.

sparkymarky · 28-02-2009, 10:50 AM

Thanks for the opinion Custard. I nearly made a mistake i think of ordering a matte white screen before trying the pj in my room.

Do you think i'd be ok with a low gain grey, like 0.8? i dont want the hotspots/low viewing angle angle/sparklies associated with the high gains of 1.8 like the panoview greywolf II

custard10 · 28-02-2009, 11:13 AM

i have the hd65 aswell and i have no problems using a matt grey paint (about 0.8 gain) and also black widow (0.9 gain).

i am projecting 120 inches diagonally.

you will always take a slight hit with whites when compared to white screen but i would imagine your viewing experience will be much improved due to less washing out of blacks.

sparkymarky · 28-02-2009, 12:33 PM

ah a 'slight hit' sounds ok. i take it that the whites don't look yellowy or discoloured to the naked eye? And you could maybe only notice the difference when compared to a white screen next to it? ot do you look at yours and think hmm those whites look off colour?

just wondering whether its the placebo effect of knowing they won't be as white or whether you can look at it and say hmm thats off colour.

warbie · 28-02-2009, 1:27 PM

Yeah, it's when comparing the image side by side with a white screen that you realise how much you're losing. It's more than a slight hit imo - explosions don't fly off the screen into your face and colours darken noticeably - but then again the opposite is the case when comparing black levels - if light's bouncing all over the room dark scenes can look flat and washed out. On its own the whites will still look pretty white on a grey screen.

Don't underestimate what gain can do btw. For ages I thought it was washed out blacks making it hard to resolve dark scenes/shadow detail, when it was actually lack of lumens. I'm very temtped to pick up a Firehawk to see what a grey screen with a positive gain can do.

custard10 · 28-02-2009, 2:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkymarky

ah a 'slight hit' sounds ok. i take it that the whites don't look yellowy or discoloured to the naked eye? And you could maybe only notice the difference when compared to a white screen next to it? ot do you look at yours and think hmm those whites look off colour?

just wondering whether its the placebo effect of knowing they won't be as white or whether you can look at it and say hmm thats off colour.

peolpe have mentioned that whites look dingy on a matt grey screen when in comparison to a white screen.

when i compare side by side i notice the difference.

but when viewing a grey screen on its own i don't notice. it seems the eyes adjust to the white level so grey whites look white.

increased gain will help brighten the picture on axis while keeping the blacks deep.
calibrating to the grey screen helps aswell if the capacity of the projector allows it.

the whites can look yellowy if the screen is not neutral in colour. that is not down to the grey color of the screen.

why dont you paint up a hardboard panel with matt grey paint and carry out a test before you fork out?

sparkymarky · 28-02-2009, 3:06 PM

yea thats an idea custard to make a cardboard scree. i think as i am pushed for time though i'll just order a grey one and if i dont like it i'll ebay it or sell it on here.

I think the pj should be ok to calibrate it to the grey screen as for example brightness can be upped if necessary as i currently have it set to -2 and it goes up to 10 i think which each step of 1 giving a noticeable difference.

Thanks for all your inputs they've been helpful. I'm going to go with a draper luma high contrast i think- only because i can't find any other manufacturers who do such a screen @ 106" for less than £200. So i'll order one on monday, get it up (ooh er madam!) and see what she's like.

will report back here of course when its up.

stew007 · 01-03-2009, 10:17 AM

Dont worry about the viewing angle or hotspots on a grey screen, its the high gain screens that you need to worry about that as in more than 1:1, the viewing angle on a Draper luma 0.8 is extremely wide.

Your projector is a bright one, so your draper will be a perfect match

sparkymarky · 01-03-2009, 1:20 PM

ah thanks stew, i was starting to doubt my choice again this morning- i watched Barnyard in HD off sky and was so impressed by the vibrancy of the picture that i started thinking i don't want to lose that crisp bright image, if that's what a grey screen will result in. I'm fine with the hotspotting etc and know that won't be a problem as i'm looking at one with only 0.8 gain not 1.5 plus. i am still concerned about losing the bright vibrant picture on animated films like barnyard etc.

Seeing as i have the brightness at -2 at the moment would upping that with the grey screen compensate if i buy the screen but feel i need the image a bit brighter? not sure

stew007 · 01-03-2009, 3:18 PM

Well I think it should still be bright, and yes upping the brightness should compensate for the lower gain, I have the infocus x9 running in eco mode using an 0.8 screen and its more than bright enough, whites and colours are un affected, I have the brightness at -4, I did try a white 1.0 screen but found the blacks to be a bit washed out for my liking due to the light bouncing off the walls, the grey screen with the black borders made a big difference.

sparkymarky · 01-03-2009, 3:29 PM

rght thats it enough pondering i'm sold

one grey screen being ordered tomorrow. Ha ha. Out of intereste stew, which screen have you got?

sparkymarky · 01-03-2009, 3:33 PM

ah just found one of your posts. you have a draper, which is what i am going to order tomorrow. i just noticed though that the endcaps only have holes for hanging it suspended. there aren't holes that are horizontal which woul have allowed you to literally screw the screen to the ceiling

i want mine as close to the ceiling as poss, have you managed this with yours?

stew007 · 01-03-2009, 3:37 PM

I just made 2 aluminium brackets from bits of scrap, then made two short hooks from some piano wire, my screen is around 2" from the ceiling

but you could use two heavy duty screw eyes and wire hooks

sparkymarky · 01-03-2009, 5:35 PM

i'll either do the screw hooks or get a bracket like this
FFA Concept Varnished Cold Pressed Steel Perforated Corner (L)1000mm x (W)27mm x (H)27mm, 2000.6159
and bolt one screw through the bracket and pj hole to fix the pj to the bracket and then a screw hook through the brakets top hole into the ceiling. That should get it as flush as possible i think

AV Nik · 02-03-2009, 8:47 AM

Sorry to step in so late,
I've installed a few Draper Luma screens. We remove the suspension arch ring (for ceiling hook) and replace it with a small piece of 'L' shaped angle iron like a miniature shelf support bracket but only 1.5" to 2" long on each side.
Using a small 6mm threaded nut and bolt, we bolt the small angle iron to the screen at each end (throught the suspension hole), leaving the top flat side pretruding so that we can screw through that into the joist/ceiling.
On one occasion, we fitted the bracket to the ceiling first but the oposite way round so that the L bracket was above the case. We then lifted the case to the brackets and bolted through. Bit tight to do but hides the brackets enough.
We usually get these from B&Q type stores.

Hope this helps.

sparkymarky · 02-03-2009, 4:39 PM

Ah thanks for the info nick, glad i ordered a screen from you this morning now!

alpha10 · 07-03-2009, 8:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkymarky

Ah thanks for the info nick, glad i ordered a screen from you this morning now!

Has your Grey-Screen arrived yet, if so how've you got on. I am in the same position as you and really don't know if Grey is right for me?

Cheers

sparkymarky · 07-03-2009, 9:58 AM

well I ordered it on the monday and it was here tuesday morning so good service from cvsmedia. I haven't actuall put it up yet- i've got one bracket fixed to the ceiling but due to all day drinking sesh yesterday i am at the moment to hungover to put the other bracket up! i'll do it later today though when i sober up.

I'll report back on the screen when i've actually pulled it down

alpha10 · 07-03-2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkymarky

well I ordered it on the monday and it was here tuesday morning so good service from cvsmedia. I haven't actuall put it up yet- i've got one bracket fixed to the ceiling but due to all day drinking sesh yesterday i am at the moment to hungover to put the other bracket up! i'll do it later today though when i sober up.

I'll report back on the screen when i've actually pulled it down

Cheers, definitely not something you want to do when hung-over

sparkymarky · 07-03-2009, 12:48 PM

well, nearly fell off the chairs due to hangover induced balance problems but have just put the screen up......

the verdict is........FANTASTIC. great screen. pulls down nicely. locks simply by just putting downward tension on he screen and holding it for a second or two. Being crticial there is a bit of slack on the screen near the bottom but i'm hoping this will 'drop' out overnight while i leave down to air- it does smell nice and new!

The grey isn't too dark either. its closer to an off white than dark dark grey which is better on the eye than i expected.

All in all a good screen and i'd recommend it. Now....gotta mount the projector....if my hangover subsides a bit more that is.

Pics of it in my signature link.

alpha10 · 07-03-2009, 2:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkymarky

well, nearly fell off the chairs due to hangover induced balance problems but have just put the screen up......

the verdict is........FANTASTIC. great screen. pulls down nicely. locks simply by just putting downward tension on he screen and holding it for a second or two. Being crticial there is a bit of slack on the screen near the bottom but i'm hoping this will 'drop' out overnight while i leave down to air- it does smell nice and new!

The grey isn't too dark either. its closer to an off white than dark dark grey which is better on the eye than i expected.

All in all a good screen and i'd recommend it. Now....gotta mount the projector....if my hangover subsides a bit more that is.

Pics of it in my signature link.

Cheers, yes looking at the pictures in your other thread, it really doesn't look as dark as I thought it would. It is going to be very interesting to see how you get on, please keep us posted

sparkymarky · 07-03-2009, 2:51 PM

will do- putting up shelf for projector now

alpha10 · 14-03-2009, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sparkymarky

will do- putting up shelf for projector now

Any update on how you are getting ono with the grey screen?

Cheers

PS where abouts in Cornwall are you (all our families are down there

)

scrufftyguy · 12-07-2009, 1:06 PM

Hi,

It'd be great to have a bit of feedback on the draper high contrast screens, as it seems like there's quite a few users out there! The one I'm considering is this 203cm x 114cm (92") Draper Luma Manual Home Cinema Screen 16:9 High Contrast 30cm Top Border Model: 207104.

Any advice etc would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Dr.Cheese · 12-07-2009, 4:35 PM

I've been using a Draper Luma as above for several years with my InFocus 4805. I've been really happy - I often used it in the day with some light coming in, or with a lamp on at night. I've never had a problem with the whites, etc. It's always a tough call though and I'm not surprised this is one of the worst parts of the buying choice - which I must rejoin now as I look to upgrade both pj and screen (slightly larger wanted)

scrufftyguy · 12-07-2009, 7:32 PM

Thanks for the reply Dr.Cheese

it definitely is a tricky one! My projector is really bright and all my walls are off white too, so the blacks end up more like greys. I'm hoping a high contrast screen will sort out the blacks, but was a little worried about the whites. Glad that you're happy with your set-up, will you again be needing a high contrast screen?

sparkymarky · 13-07-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alpha10

Any update on how you are getting ono with the grey screen?

Cheers

PS where abouts in Cornwall are you (all our families are down there

)

hi, i'm well happy with the screen. it has made blacks better

Dr.Cheese · 13-07-2009, 12:30 PM

scrufftyguy, there are people on here with plenty more knowledge than I have who will have done side by side comparisons in various rooms but going by what you have said it sounds like the grey screen will suit, and should help your problem. Unless all you watch are fridge documentaries I don't think you will have a problem with the whites. I originally viewed a demo with a half white / half grey screen and the grey gave a nice natural film-like look.

Without being too general and causing more problems, I remember some years ago lots of people were on about using ND filters from still cameras to reduce the amount of light coming out, which you could then just take off as the bulb dimmed - that could be a very cheap way forward, and you may well know someone who has a few to try.

In answer to your question I really want a free standing screen like the beamax X series which they don't seem to do in grey, so I really don't know what I'm going to do yet - I'd really want to try a white screen at home with whatever projector I get to decide - I suspect I'll be spending a fair amount of time on this site trying to figure things out.