[logiciel]

Originally Posted by krish

Warsi, as she's....homophobic

She's frightened (like agoraphobia) of things that are the same (like homogeneous)? - the same as what?
Or do you mean she's frightened of gay people - or that she dislikes gay people?
If the latter then you're wrong.
She's a member of a government that wants to encourage us gay people to make a mockery of marriage.

I agree about Vaz though.

[krish]

Originally Posted by logiciel

Or do you mean she's frightened of gay people - or that she dislikes gay people?
If the latter then you're wrong.

Her election campaign (2005 general election, where she lost and was subsequently made a peer) issued leaflets claiming Labour's lowering of the homosexual age of consent from 18 to 16 (under the Sexual Offences (Amendment) Act 2000) was "allowing schoolchildren to be propositioned for homosexual relationships", and that homosexuality was being peddled to children as young as seven in schools (Sayeeda Warsi, Baroness Warsi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

‘Homophobic’ leaflet used again by Tory candidate - PinkNews.co.uk

Ms Warsi’s leaflets, reportedly redistributed by Mr Scott, read:

“Labour has scrapped Section 28, which was introduced by the Conservatives to stop schools promoting alternative sexual lifestyles such as homosexuality to children as young as seven years old.

“Labour reduced the age of consent for homosexuality from 18 to 16, allowing schoolchildren to be propositioned for homosexual relationships.”

In 2005 these leaflets were aimed at the Muslim voters in the constituency.

That last sentence above also makes a mockery of her current concern over the Rochdale case.

[dc8900]

Originally Posted by Cliff

No... I think my phrase, some Muslim men is more accurate as it includes many,not necessarily Pakistani, who have been brought up to strict Islamic ways, and look at white girls in this way.

Describing it as a 'Muslim' grouping is also not that helpful; as while there may have been an Afghan among this ring, let's remember that there is really isn't such thing as an Afghan or Pakistani ethnicities, as they are really nationality groups of different ethnic groups. One ethnic group that straddles both sides of the border are Pashtuns (who are also culturally very Conservative) and so it wouldn't surprise if the Afghan and couple of the British Pakistanis/Pakistanis were of Pashtun (or any other ethnic that are both sides of the border) descent.

[damo_in_sale]

Louise Mensche, as big a fool as Keith Vaz. At least that's my opinion.

The issue that I and I think many others have, is the suspicion, and that is all it is, that until recently the authorities took the implicit decision to ignore the abuse of dozens of our most vulnerable children in Heywood because it was easier than stiring a hornets nest.

Of course, I could be totally wrong, and social services, the police and the CPS might just be incompetent morons rather than accessories to a pedophile ring.

My suspicions are based upon my personal knowledge of the torture of very young British girls whose parents are from distant lands. The evidence given to me is personal testimony, and I have seen the results of the torture with my own eyes, albeit ten years after the crimes were committed. I have also witnessed the long lasting mental damage such torture has upon the victims- it is, I can assure you, not good.
These girls often cannot look to their mum or dad for protection, aunt nor uncle, their grandmother nor grandfather, because these people are often all accessories if not perpetrators.

I would like you to imagine what that must be like if that was your situation when you were a child. If you are a parent, then imagine if that was your chil... no, I suspect I don't need to, you'll be doing that already.

I raise this issue of torture and mutilation because I believe, given the evidence I have seen, that UK authorities simply don't want to know. Social services, the police, the CPS, the border agency, the home office- they must know because it's not difficult to identify children at risk of these crimes. But instead choose not to protect these British girls because it is, in my opinion, 'difficult'.

I myself am quite afraid of raising the issue because of the atmosphere we have in this nation- if it gives the BNP nobs ammunition then leave it alone. Better to allow the torture, mutilation and mental ruin of a large number of our children than stir up trouble. And the reason I am afraid is that when one raises such an issue, inevitably one gets accused of being a BNP nob, and if one is not careful, police action for committing one of the 'hate' crimes created during the past decade or so.

I am of the opinion that all people, regardless of origin, religion, gender or skin pigment, should be treated the same under UK law. But that doesn't apply only to the punishments available to the state, as enacted by parliament, but also to the protections we would expect apply to our own children.

But, I am very sad to say, my experience has lead me to the belief that that is not the case.

I will not respond to requests for elaboraration, for, I hope, are obvious reasons. I only hope that what I have written above gives folk pause for thought.


Kind regards,

Damo

[Alan CD]

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

I raise this issue of torture and mutilation because I believe, given the evidence I have seen, that UK authorities simply don't want to know. Social services, the police, the CPS, the border agency, the home office- they must know because it's not difficult to identify children at risk of these crimes. But instead choose not to protect these British girls because it is, in my opinion, 'difficult'.

Would that be female circumcision?

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by damo_in_sale

---the authorities took the implicit decision to ignore the abuse of dozens of our most vulnerable children in Heywood because it was easier than stirring a hornets nest.

Of course, I could be totally wrong, ---


Damo

I suspect you are not wrong. It is just put in the too difficult tray.

When this thinking extends to the police, the BBC and academic apologists, then problems such as we have been discussing will not go away, but will only get worse.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Cliff

I suspect you are not wrong. It is just put in the too difficult tray.

When this thinking extends to the police, the BBC and academic apologists, then problems such as we have been discussing will not go away, but will only get worse.

Evidence please?

Which is the problem with the whole of damos post. If there is hard evidence to support his claims, not the usual 'we know it goes on, the lads down the pub have been saying it for years' then take it your local councillor, MP Children's support groups or whatever.

But then I'm sure he's already done that..................

[dejongj]

My interpretation of what overkill was saying is if you have this hard evidence than why didn't YOU do something about it. After all it is hard to prosecute without hard evidence that a law has been broken.

[Cliff]

Originally Posted by overkill

Evidence please?

Which is the problem with the whole of damos post. If there is hard evidence to support his claims, not the usual 'we know it goes on, the lads down the pub have been saying it for years' then take it your local councillor, MP Children's support groups or whatever.

But then I'm sure he's already done that..................

You have hit on the heart of the issue and the main reason I posted as I feel this is a subject for discussion.

In the case of stories to be reported that have religious, cultural or racial sensitivities, is there a reluctance to report properly or worse in the case crimes or domestic issues do the authorities, or Police turn a blind eye.
Is it right they do so? Or do you see no evidence of this?

Of course, you mention evidence, but in the case of reporting it is more a case of omitting certain facts.


So, do we under report, or investigate with a light touch and let these crimes go on or should the incidents be reported honestly like any other story?

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by dc8900

Describing it as a 'Muslim' grouping is also not that helpful; as while there may have been an Afghan among this ring, let's remember that there is really isn't such thing as an Afghan or Pakistani ethnicities, as they are really nationality groups of different ethnic groups. One ethnic group that straddles both sides of the border are Pashtuns (who are also culturally very Conservative) and so it wouldn't surprise if the Afghan and couple of the British Pakistanis/Pakistanis were of Pashtun (or any other ethnic that are both sides of the border) descent.

Removed comment, as it would be classed as an insult. Despite the fact that you have SINGLED OUT A RACE of people and insulted them. Thank you very much for insulting the race I belong too.

They were pakistanis and end off. They were native to Pakistan and such should be repatriated. No messing around, simple straight to the point.

If they were born here let them go to prison and serve their time. Society has no room for animals like these and they should be given a choice die or be killed.

Although its strange when a white man rapes or is convicted of a similar offence av forums members do not try establish their RACE, RELIGION or their sub culture?

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by neilios

Lets be clear its not all pakistani men that are doing this,but there are definite and clear issue's on their treament of women,the mrs works at the BRI,alot of pakistani men wont even talk or look at female members of staff,and refuse to cooperate with treatment,cases of mutilation,burning are a regular occurance coming out of their communities in the bradford area.

I have in the past done alot of work in pakistani homes and it was frowned upon if i talked to any of the females in the house..My own daughter who is now 14 has been approached by asian youths cruising offering spliffs and a ride in their cars,it is a real problem how prevalent i dont know..

The bri saga, what are you trying to say? Please simply say it rather than talk in riddles.

About you.... Your there to do a job, do it get paid and go away...
I have employed people to work not chat...

Your daughter issue, seek police intervention and advice.

I guess you also ask for their passport prior to starting a job..... You always manage to make me smile. cheers!

[Ayub]

Going back to the o/p question.

This has always been brushed under the carpet. This needs talking and bringing out into the open. As there is no real platform for pakystani related issues where would they start.

[dc8900]

Originally Posted by Ayub

Removed comment, as it would be classed as an insult. Despite the fact that you have SINGLED OUT A RACE of people and insulted them. Thank you very much for insulting the race I belong too.

They were pakistanis and end off. They were native to Pakistan and such should be repatriated. No messing around, simple straight to the point.

If they were born here let them go to prison and serve their time. Society has no room for animals like these and they should be given a choice die or be killed.

Although its strange when a white man rapes or is convicted of a similar offence av forums members do not try establish their RACE, RELIGION or their sub culture?

No idea what your original comment was and don't care. Anyway, my point was (admittedly very badly written in my first post) was that describing them or find the cause of what they did because they were Muslim/Pakistani/Afghan/Pashtun/Punjabi etc is neither helpful or accurate. Yes, there must have been some linkage between these men seeing how massive this Sex Ring managed to grow so big but what was that? I was NOT trying saying this was an inherent Pashtun thing (although re-reading my original post it does come off that and for that I am sorry).

Originally Posted by Ayub

Although its strange when a white man rapes or is convicted of a similar offence av forums members do not try establish their RACE, RELIGION or their sub culture?

For the record I'm not white and I personally I am not trying to suggest this is a specific ethnic crime (as it isn't)

[IronGiant]

This demonstrates what an emotive and sensitive subject it is, that cannot easily be discussed without people jumping to conclusions, (one way or another) particularly over the slightly clunky social interaction that is possible across the internet. Please try and remember this and be careful what you type and how it it be taken, everyone...

Not aimed at anyone in particular BTW.

Thanks.

[neilios]

Originally Posted by Ayub

The bri saga, what are you trying to say? Please simply say it rather than talk in riddles.

About you.... Your there to do a job, do it get paid and go away...
I have employed people to work not chat...

Your daughter issue, seek police intervention and advice.

I guess you also ask for their passport prior to starting a job..... You always manage to make me smile. cheers!

What dont you understand about my post regarding the bradford royal infimary?
You have invited people to give you a quote,and asked them to do the work, if someone from that house engages them in conversation it would be rude not reply,i treat people as equals and show them respect,if thats not forth coming then i pack my tools ,collect my money go ,simples...

The issue with my daughter and her friends being harassed has been resolved...

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by krish

Her election campaign (2005 general election, where she lost and was subsequently made a peer) issued leaflets

I know, and I don't see anything in them to confirm the claim that she's "homophobic" in any of the four possible senses of that strange word.
I still don't see what was wrong with preventing schools from "promoting alternative sexual lifestyles such as homosexuality to children" - why should schools be into promoting any lifestyles, or promoting anything at all?

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by neilios

What dont you understand about my post regarding the bradford royal infimary?
You have invited people to give you a quote,and asked them to do the work, if someone from that house engages them in conversation it would be rude not reply,i treat people as equals and show them respect,if thats not forth coming then i pack my tools ,collect my money go ,simples...

The issue with my daughter and her friends being harassed has been resolved...

Your original post regarding your wife implies that Muslim/Pakistani people somehow mutilate,dismember and burn them for fun.

Neilios... I have YET to see this, I have always seen the Pakistani community as a welcoming and reasonably adaptive community as a whole.

Their are evil elements in all communities and the Pakistani community are only now dealing with their demons,Albeit not in the way they want.

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by dc8900

No idea what your original comment was and don't care. Anyway, my point was (admittedly very badly written in my first post) was that describing them or find the cause of what they did because they were Muslim/Pakistani/Afghan/Pashtun/Punjabi etc is neither helpful or accurate. Yes, there must have been some linkage between these men seeing how massive this Sex Ring managed to grow so big but what was that? I was NOT trying saying this was an inherent Pashtun thing (although re-reading my original post it does come off that and for that I am sorry).



For the record I'm not white and I personally I am not trying to suggest this is a specific ethnic crime (as it isn't)

Let's move on

Most of the people who we hear get up to these things are NATIVE Pakistani's not Muslims, Hindus or a Sunni or Shia etc. simply put a PAKISTANI Ring.

It must be addressed and dealt with as an example to the community. It's high time justice was served. Don't get me wrong their will be lots of issues which need to be addressed but unroll their ( native) attitude is changed we are wasting everyone's time.

[krish]

Unexpected shock news ... Warsi's in another pickle

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by krish

Unexpected shock news ... Warsi's in another pickle

Spill the beans

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18225881

She is ummm lmao she needs repatriating

[dc8900]

Originally Posted by Ayub

She is ummm lmao she needs repatriating

What, back to the north?

[Ayub]

Originally Posted by dc8900

What, back to the north?

A north as you can go if we can duck tape her gob that would be a bloôdy bonus.

[damo_in_sale]

Originally Posted by krish

Unexpected shock news ... Warsi's in another pickle

I don't have much time for Baroness Warsi. This expenses stuff is at best an embarrassing error.

RE the expenses stuff, I think what wound me up the most was the flipping of properties. MP's collectively enact monetary policies which generate massive inflation in house prices (pricing our young folk out of the market), buy a house, hand the mortgage bill to the taxpayer, do the place up, hand the bill to the taxpayer, and then sell the property at a later date for a large profit. Rinse and repeat.

Regarding Baroness Warsi and her comments about the topic to hand, regardless of what one thinks of her views in other matters, I do think she was quite brave in many respects. Jack straw too a couple of years ago, and also the local Labour MPs of course. Now, they may of course simply be mistaken, but regardless I think their intentions honourable as I see little upside to these folk otherwise.

I am very grateful to those who thanked me for my last post on this thread. It is a post I almost chose not to write because of the difficulty of the subject.

In response to the one, indirect, negative comment I had, I have provided no more information than I feel comfortable with on a public forum.

Kind regards,

Damo

[krish]

Damo ... in other circumstances I might agree that she's being brave, but she has form as a political opportunist and attention seeker

Her failed general election campaign for the Dewsbury constituency in 2005 deliberately fear-mongered or played on cultural prejudices in the same community (re the repeal of section 28 and equalisation of age of consent) she is now speaking up about with respect to this horrific organised grooming ... and as I posted earlier that ES interview seems to be a PR exercise (she knows most of her colleagues and the media do not rate her abilities).

[krish]

Originally Posted by krish

I absolutely loathe Keith Vaz, an opportunistic corrupt politican who jumps on any every bandwagon with a subcontinent link

what a shock it was this morning to read this ...
- Secret police probe into Labour MP's £500,000 - Telegraph

[logiciel]

Originally Posted by krish

Warsi, as she's....dumb....homophobic

We've been through the "homophobic" before, starting from your post #4.
"Why should schools be into promoting any lifestyles, or promoting anything at all?" can wait for another day, another thread.
She's certainly not dumb though.
And I still agree with you about Vaz.
Why isn't there a thread about him?

[krish]

You and I had this discussion a few months ago, we disagreed, I'm not picking it up again.

[logiciel]

You got that in ahead of me - I was amending my post..