[Almos]

My viewing is mainly SD through a Sky box which I will soon be upgrading to HD. Mostly normal channels, some films and much sport. Little DVD use and no games except some Wii. We sit 9' - 10' from the TV. Good SD performance is vital.
Have considered the Philips 42PFL9703 but the reviews indicate great complexity in settings and that to get best picture most of the technology, which I would be paying for, has to be turned off most times, nor do I want the lights.
Have turned to consider the Panasonic TX-P42G10 which seems to have great HD performance but less good SD.
In fact there seem to be many sets with excellent HD but mediocre SD.
Question then is should I be looking elsewhere for great HD & SD pictures?
Given the tech specifications, which I don't fully understand, will the V10 be an advance on the G10 in this regard?
Don't want to spend more than £1,500 unless I need to or are there cheaper, less advanced models which will provide what I want?
Would really appreciate some help on this as I am going round in circles and I'm sick of putting "ABCXYZ review" into Goggle!!
Alan

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by Almos

My viewing is mainly SD through a Sky box which I will soon be upgrading to HD. Mostly normal channels, some films and much sport. Little DVD use and no games except some Wii. We sit 9' - 10' from the TV. Good SD performance is vital.
Have considered the Philips 42PFL9703 but the reviews indicate great complexity in settings and that to get best picture most of the technology, which I would be paying for, has to be turned off most times, nor do I want the lights.
Have turned to consider the Panasonic TX-P42G10 which seems to have great HD performance but less good SD.
In fact there seem to be many sets with excellent HD but mediocre SD.
Question then is should I be looking elsewhere for great HD & SD pictures?
Given the tech specifications, which I don't fully understand, will the V10 be an advance on the G10 in this regard?
Don't want to spend more than £1,500 unless I need to or are there cheaper, less advanced models which will provide what I want?
Would really appreciate some help on this as I am going round in circles and I'm sick of putting "ABCXYZ review" into Goggle!!
Alan

You have the right good points and bad points about the G10. But must say the SD processing isnt the best and far from the worse. In reviews they always look for bad point because no tv is perfect and that was one of the bad points. I would consider the G10, but you can also consider LG PS8000. But the majority will say Panasonic. No one really know how good the V10 will do in regards to SD processing as it hasnt been released yet, so no one can see it or review it. We only expect it to be better than G10 as its the better series. You probably could get a 50 LG with your budget.

Whats your viewing distance anyway?

Hope I helped

[Almos]

Many thanks - we sit 9 - 10 feet away

Alan

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by Almos

Many thanks - we sit 9 - 10 feet away

Alan

'Mistake you can also get a 50" G10 with that budget 50"V10 will be just under £1600 though.'

Well a lot of people would get 50" from that viewing distance (including myself), good distance for full HD content aswell. If you have an old CRT at the moment I'm pretty sure you would be happy with a G10 purchase. Its just your decision to go either 42" or 50". I will tell you like everyone else will tell, your tv will shrink after about 3 weeks. Also a 42" V10 will cost you around £1300.

Hope that Helped

[Monarch]

Or you could go in the middle and get 46". I think SD will look a little bit ropey on larger screens at that distance but if you have a decent amount of HD content then it will be a sacrifice worth making. The LGs look good (the 42PQ6000 is excellent for the money), the PQ6000 is the 42" model you would want to look at, the PS6000/7000/8000 start at 50" (50PS8000, the top end model, is around a grand!), wait for some reviews of them if it's appealing.

I also think that the G10s SD performance is taken out of context, it's not as good as the Pioneers but from what I've seen it is about/nearly as good as the cheaper HD ready X10 (which is very good, again, not as good as the Pioneers) but with the edge when it comes to HD

EDIT: And with the G10 you get built in freesat (if you have a dish) so more of your viewing can be HD!

[Almos]

Many thanks for the advice.

I think a 50 would be too big both in scale re the room and sitting disatance - 9/10'

Have now looked at Pioneers which seem best for SD, though I see only the 50 & 60 are current models. Reviews of other sizes I have read are from 07 or 08.
Do they still stand out compared with current 09 models from other manufacturers eg Panasonic?
And sre they still better than current LCDs eg Philips?
If so where can I get one?
Alan

[audiphile76]

Originally Posted by Almos

Have now looked at Pioneers which seem best for SD, though I see only the 50 & 60 are current models. Reviews of other sizes I have read are from 07 or 08.
Do they still stand out compared with current 09 models from other manufacturers eg Panasonic?
And sre they still better than current LCDs eg Philips?

Alan

G10 from Panasonic has blacks quite comparable to 2007 Pioneers. V10 is expected to be a bit more ahead in terms of blacks and has slimmer panel. No 2009 models come close to 2008 Pioneer in terms of blacks or SD quality. LCDs still have some ground to catchup with Plasmas in terms of blacks and SD, but LCDs are as good or even better at HD.

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by audiphile76

G10 from Panasonic has blacks quite comparable to 2007 Pioneers. V10 is expected to be a bit more ahead in terms of blacks and has slimmer panel. No 2009 models come close to 2008 Pioneer in terms of blacks or SD quality. LCDs still have some ground to catchup with Plasmas in terms of blacks and SD, but LCDs are as good or even better at HD.

Where have you got this information from? As I dont agree, but if you can back it I will be grateful. This does seem like a wild opinion.

@ Almos.
Get a 46" G10 if 50" is too big. I will tell you that your tv will shrink after about 3 weeks. If you want built in freesat or viera cast get the G15, which should be released next month.

Hope that helped

[Monarch]

Originally Posted by E9 Smooth

Where have you got this information from? As I dont agree, but if you can back it I will be grateful. This does seem like a wild opinion.

I think it was HD TV test who measured the G10s blacks to be the same as the 8G Kuros, still very good though . When you see the numbers there's still quite a way to go

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by Monarch08

I think it was HD TV test who measured the G10s blacks to be the same as the 8G Kuros, still very good though . When you see the numbers there's still quite a way to go

I just dont understand how they can the 2009 panasonics are on the same black levels as the 2008 pioneers. When they have only reviewed the entry level tv's X10 and G10 they havnt even seen the other models such as the G15 (probably the same as the G10), V10 and Z1. It just seems very bias, making assumptions and allowing other people to see them as facts. If Panasonic said that, then fair enough, HDTV test cant really be a good source.

I suppose you can use facts to make assumptions.
But can you use assumptions to make facts

Dose this make sense

[Monarch]

I doubt the jump will be as big in the new models as the amount of ground they have to make up. This comes directly from the HD TV test review ( Panasonic TX-P42G10 / TX-P42G10B Review )

We measured the calibrated black level on our Panasonic TX-P42G10 review unit to be 0.03 cd/m2, which puts it on par with the Pioneer PDP-4280XD 8G Kuro plasma, but still some way off the 0.0031 cd/m2 record currently held by the Pioneer PDP-LX5090 9G Kuro plasma TV.

The 0.03 cd/m2 on the G10 is very good, but 0.0031 cd/m2 on the 5090 is a lot smaller I know what you mean though, although the G10 is competing with the 5090. But when you consider that the poor blacks on the LG PG7000 of last year which were 0.13cd/m2 (very grey compared to the G10), the difference between the G10 and 5090 is smaller (although this is a very shakey way of comparing) but you can see that there's still a decent way to go...if that makes sense

I think that we do need to wait for the highest spec Panasonics to arrive, but I doubt we will see a Kuro beater

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by Monarch08

I doubt the jump will be as big in the new models as the amount of ground they have to make up. This comes directly from the HD TV test review ( Panasonic TX-P42G10 / TX-P42G10B Review )


The 0.03 cd/m2 on the G10 is very good, but 0.0031 cd/m2 on the 5090 is a lot smaller I know what you mean though, although the G10 is competing with the 5090. But when you consider that the poor blacks on the LG PG7000 of last year which were 0.13cd/m2 (very grey compared to the G10), the difference between the G10 and 5090 is smaller (although this is a very shakey way of comparing) but you can see that there's still a decent way to go...if that makes sense

I think that we do need to wait for the highest spec Panasonics to arrive, but I doubt we will see a Kuro beater

Thanks a lot for that, I'm not afraid of learning
The Z1 and V10 might not beat the 9gn Pioneer on blacks but atleast it will cover more ground. But this does not mean the Pioneer will have the better picture, as I think I discussed with you and someone earlier there are more things than black levels to make a great picture. Blacks is one of them, but if the blacks got any blacker on the Pioneer would it make anymore difference to our viewing. Our eyes cant make those measurements.

[Monarch]

Another thing I've seen mentioned is that the VX100 has a better depth of colour (how true this is I'm not entirely sure) which leads to a more "poppy" 3D picture...to be honest I think we're nit picking, they're both great TVs

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by Monarch08

Another thing I've seen mentioned is that the VX100 has a better depth of colour (how true this is I'm not entirely sure) which leads to a more "poppy" 3D picture...to be honest I think we're nit picking, they're both great TVs

Agreed. I just want them to get better. Im not happy with Pioneer as they where getting so good, but they could get any better and took the easy way out imo. Also I think they are trying to do a publicity stunt (just like Jay-Z did). There gonna be back or we will soon be seeing Sharp Kuro .

[Monarch]

Pioneer have been in financial turmoil, it's why they made such a big push to be the best, but they didn't market it well enough, they even crept into the LCD world to try and scrape some money there. Pioneer didn't leave the TV market because they couldn't improve, they could improve, for example the 5090 suffers from judder unless it's set up well, and image retention and phosphor trailing even on the Pioneers is still there, it's just minimised

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by Monarch08

Pioneer have been in financial turmoil, it's why they made such a big push to be the best, but they didn't market it well enough, they even crept into the LCD world to try and scrape some money there. Pioneer didn't leave the TV market because they couldn't improve, they could improve, for example the 5090 suffers from judder unless it's set up well, and image retention and phosphor trailing even on the Pioneers is still there, it's just minimised

I know the tv could of been improved on. I saying maybe they couldnt do, they are not that big of a company. Im sure they dont make their own screens like the other big plasma brands, I think they have only been making tv's for 10yrs. In this market they was always gonna small to LG (Lucky Goldstar), Samsung and Panasonic. I think there original market is in sound, where Bose has shown them up. Its only Europe where they have been kings if the tele world . Even places like Japan (the home of technology) havnt shown much demand for the Pioneer tvs. But thats just my opinion away (mixed with a little facts)

[Almos]

Well this has got a bit technical for me but I guess the advice is that Pioneer are the best for SD but there are several who are excellent in HD, including LCDs?
I guess I will wait to see what the V10 is like.
By the way do/did Pioneer do a 46" and would sitting at 9' to 10' away be OK for SD with this screen size?
Many thanks

Alan

[E9 Smooth]

Originally Posted by Almos

Well this has got a bit technical for me but I guess the advice is that Pioneer are the best for SD but there are several who are excellent in HD, including LCDs?
I guess I will wait to see what the V10 is like.
By the way do/did Pioneer do a 46" and would sitting at 9' to 10' away be OK for SD with this screen size?
Many thanks

Alan

50" is ok at that distance

[Monarch]

Pioneer didn't do a 46" TV, they did a 42" TV in 2007, and it's still one of the best on the market, but it's not the same! Deffinitely wait for the V10, although the 5090s might be hard to find by then, although I hear Richer Sounds are getting a load in before they dry up completely at the end of this month.

Plasmas are generally better in SD, nothing will beat a Kuro and while I would normally say that 50" would be too big there aren't many artifacts and there isn't much to fault on the Kuros compared to the Panasonics so I'm sure you would be fine with it, the V10 is in 46" though. And LCDs do improve in HD but, in my opinion, they're still not near the level of a decent plasma, espcially when you watch a dark scene in a movie and the blacks come out as very grey and you get motion blurring to an extent on even the most expensive ones

[Almos]

Thanks to all. Guess I'll await reviews for the V10. Are there any advance sightings btw??
Alan