[jj-yorks]

well i have owned a Sharp LCD for the past 3 years and thought it was time to upgrade from a 32 to 40+ screen. Was dead set on a Sony Bravia kdl40w4000 but when I went into Currys to have a play and see what these screens were actually like on the eye I was very dissapointed, people keep saying LCD has moved on leaps and bounds but im not convinced...lucky that a Panasonic for whatever reason was right next to the Sony....first I thought it must be a LCD as every other panel was down this particular row of tv's and wow even in the shop the quality of the picture was far more natural and superior and even after playing with the settings of both panels for around 10 mins, most of this time with the LCD, the Panasonic plasma well out performed the LCD and was cheaper + 2" bigger screen.....i was a big LCD fan upto seeing this and now converted and would recommend a plasa over LCD any day...by the way the model i bought was PZ80B

[themilkman23]

I'm in this position about wondering about a plasma or LCD.

I had a 42" LG and then a 50" LG, both plasma's, both developed faults - One after 18 months the other after 3 months!

I recommended to my parents to get a Panasonic plasma, that developed a fault after 14 months but thankfully Panasonic covered the cost of the repair.

Whereas where my friends have bought LCD and I've told them they should have bought plasma's, their LCD's are still working without any faults!!!

[gizlaroc]

Originally Posted by jj-yorks

......even after playing with the settings of both panels for around 10 mins, most of this time with the LCD, the Panasonic plasma well out performed the LCD ......

No offence, but it took me 3 days to get the Samsung LCD even equal to my Panny plasma, 10 minutes would show you sod all.

[The Snake]

Originally Posted by gizlaroc

No offence, but it took me 3 days to get the Samsung LCD even equal to my Panny plasma, 10 minutes would show you sod all.

Does it sound like crap though, or have sammy upped the stakes in the sound department aswell.

[gizlaroc]

No they haven't!! Worst sounding TV I have ever heard!!

[geese]

The gap's closing fast but if its top quality you want then a high-end plasma it is mate. I have owned many lcd's and plasma's and by far the best is my current Pioneer. No panny( pro or otherwise ) I have owned or seen can touch it. The same with the new LED Samsung's. Either get one of them LED Lcd's or a high-grade Plasma

[arad85]

Originally Posted by IPaintSara

The 756 is reduced as its been replaced at the £1300 point by the 786 with the LED backlights, plenty on the LCD section about that set's considerable pros and relatively minor cons and a review here Samsung LE40A786 Review I think the next gen will make another improvement on LED backlighting and surpass all but the very best plasmas. Then OLED will come along.

See.. that's interesting.. Things like:

Originally Posted by HDTVtest

Video Processing is probably the section where we should note an unusual problem with the Samsung LE40A786. Irritatingly, with any source except a 60hz input, combing would appear every so often, even with a fully Progressive source. We can only assume that this display routes these signals through a 1080i video processing circuit, which is unusual. Keep in mind that as the combing is at 1080i resolution, the misplaced lines are only one pixel high and may be unnoticeable at certain viewing distances. Nevertheless, the issue is here and is especially significant in the UK, where there is an abundance of affected 50hz video content.

Would make me run a mile from the set - no matter how cheap/good the set is otherwise.

I cannot stand combing artefacts (along with judder). Really just shows how you need to see the sets yourself and judge that way rather than rely on other peoples opinions...

[gizlaroc]

Absolutely, some people may never notice that, where as others just couldn't live with it at all.




I noticed this on the 756 too, but not since putting the firmware update on.

[rikkyreardon]

Go for a Panasonic Plasma.

I had an LCD and to my eyes it just didn't look "Natural" on some things (most notable on viewing DVDs and football), plus take a look at the LCD forum sure a lot of the LCD's are improving greatly but let's face it they had to ... note how many threads have settings that include something along the lines of "turn off everything or knock it down to minimum setting" so yes they are getting better but a lot of the gizmos and processing just simply doesn't work in real life.

Also note that Plasma is superb for gaming as long as you break the set in for a few weeks ... you don't have to but less chance of IR if you do.

[Mr_x]

Originally Posted by rikkyreardon

Go for a Panasonic Plasma.

Also note that Plasma is superb for gaming as long as you break the set in for a few weeks ... you don't have to but less chance of IR if you do.

what does it mean break the set and what is IR ?


thanks i think i will spend a few days on the shop floors and try to get a feel for them myself.

[YellowSphere]

Originally Posted by rikkyreardon

note how many threads have settings that include something along the lines of "turn off everything or knock it down to minimum setting" so yes they are getting better but a lot of the gizmos and processing just simply doesn't work in real life.

That's true of any television. You'll notice that recommended settings for Pioneer are pretty much the same and what little Panasonic do give you control over, it's best to leave off.

[The Snake]

Originally Posted by Mr_x

what does it mean break the set and what is IR ?


thanks i think i will spend a few days on the shop floors and try to get a feel for them myself.

Usually with a plasma you 'run it in' for the first 200 hrs or so on low settings, namely make the screen darker, turn the contrast down etc.

IR = image retention, ie a screen/logo ending up permanently on the screen or at least on the screen for period of time.

Basically, in the first few weeks just keep the screen brightness turned down until it 'warms up' and this will help the screen 'bed in' and reduce image retention problems.

[gizlaroc]

Originally Posted by The Snake

Basically, in the first few weeks just keep the screen brightness turned down until it 'warms up' and this will help the screen 'bed in' and reduce image retention problems.

Contrast, brightness turned up will reduxe image retention.

I don't you have needed to worry about it for years now, maybe on crap screens but not on any of the main ones.


I left the Zelda start screen on for over 12 hours on my PHD8 when I got it and there was some retention, put the TV back on for an hour and when I checked it was gone.

Just set it up for a decent picture and you will be fine.




I think the whole 'which is better' debate is useless.

It really is a case now of which is better for you?

If you don't notice the Pioneer dancing pixels it is an awesome screen.
If you don't notice the noise on Panasonics in the dark areas that is an awesome screen.
If you can live with the black levels on the latest LCD's then they really do have a hell of a lot to offer over plasma.

Unfortunately demos in stores tell you nothing, 24 hours or 48 hours with a set also tell you nothing, you will either be diapointed or over the moon in the first couple of days, when you stop fiddling with the settings and just want to sit back and enjoy watching material rather than looking at the set itself is when you start to think if it is any good or not.
For me the real acid test is whether I want to adjust the settings as I switch between different sources and even different channels.

The only set I have owned so far that has not made me want to mess around constantly is the Panasonic PHD8. That doesn't make it the best set in any area, it just makes it the one I enjoy on a daily basis more. As a complete package it is almost perfect, if it were 1080p it would be perfect I guess.

[mugabimad]

I know a lot of people that are moving from LCD to plasma and not the opposite...

[gizlaroc]

Originally Posted by mugabimad

I know a lot of people that are moving from LCD to plasma and not the opposite...

Well if they have owned any of the LCDs before this cureent generation I would think they would have been put off LCD for life!

[hillbilly1]

popped into my local comet earlier this week, to look at the Panny TH42-PX80B, not sure why but I quite liked a 40" Samsung LCD next to it! (different feeds etc, did not have time to "play") does anyone know the "equivalent" LCD to the panny plasma, in terms of quality/price/recommendation so i can go & compare!

[gizlaroc]

The 7 and 8 seires are the ones really, so 756 and 856 models.

[philip birdi]

I was asking the same question lcd or plasma and one guy in the shop said for Sky HD lcd would be better,i have the sony 52" w4000 and the footy in HD is stunning !

[The Snake]

Originally Posted by gizlaroc

Contrast, brightness turned up will reduxe image retention.
.

What?, are you saying that when running in you turn the brightness up.

Edit: Ignore that you're talking about removing existing IR not preventing it in the early stages of a screen life.

[punkymunky]

I've had a plasma for 3 years and just bought a Sony Bravia LCD. Iinitally my impression was wow it's bright and intense and that was good but after a short while I realised how ridiculous it looked compared to reality and have spent a few days basically reducing the backlight right down to plasma levels. I now have a more natural picture with surprisingly good black levels which is good with motion but I feel that reducing the backlight has also removed the richness from the colours, richness that you get in spades from a plasma TV.

I think Gizerloc? has made some very valid points and I it could now be purely a matter of taste, however before we right off plasma's lead completely, it's only fair to compare apples with apples - has he tried a PFD Panasonic pro panel with full HD???

[Costas]

Originally Posted by punkymunky

I've had a plasma for 3 years and just bought a Sony Bravia LCD.

Yes Sony is the best LCD around but you went from a plasma to an LCD??? Did you have a low quality plasma or something before??/

[WhiteKiteFauna]

I returned Samsung 40A856 LCD, because it could not get even close to the image quality of the CRT tv with SD channels.

I was not considering plasmas, dont know why, but I was looking at the shop on the Sony LCDs, and there was one cheap Samsung plasma between them. They all showed the same HD feed with movie fragments. Guess which one looked the best and most natural?

Could you list disadvatages of plasma? So far I could gather:
- flickering
- phosphor trails (how ppl say it can be good for gaming and sports if it has that?)
- low resolution, so not to be used as PC monitor, for example
+ good SD picture quality
- dancing pixels
- noise in dark areas (he? I thought that was LCDs problem)

LCD:
- crappy SD picture, including DVDs
+ excellent photoframe and PC monitor

I never had a plasma, but i consider one now. Could someone confirm/add/remove all these points?

[gizlaroc]

Originally Posted by punkymunky

I think Gizerloc? has made some very valid points and I it could now be purely a matter of taste, however before we right off plasma's lead completely, it's only fair to compare apples with apples - has he tried a PFD Panasonic pro panel with full HD???

I am not saying that LCD has overtaken Plasma, it hasn't. But there are some very blinkered people on this forum who will not even consider something other than the screen they own to be as good, and they could be missing out.

I currently have the PHD8 and the Samsung 7 series LCD.

Both have their plus points, and both have negatives, in this game we will never see the perfect screen. Unfortunately it is more a case of finding something that annoys you less than the next one!

The LCD in some areas is absolutely stunning!!
On brighter scenes it wipes the floor with every plasma I have seen, mind you it is a 40" so comparing it with the 5090 etc. is not that fair. But you can tell what sirt of camera was used and when they use a different one. The motion is also sublime, as are the colours, they pop and stay extremely natural.
Sharpness is also way ahead too.
However the black levels are still not there, and for me that is a problem that annoys me.
The 9 series pannny panels and 10 series seem to suffer too, hence why i never bought the full HD panel.

If a PF11 can give the sharpness and punch of the LCD and blacks at least equal to the PHD8 it would be a very good panel, but I don't want phosphor trails which some of the Vieras suffer from, this panel I have now doesn't suffer from them at all.

[gizlaroc]

Originally Posted by WhiteKiteFauna

I returned Samsung 40A856 LCD, because it could not get even close to the image quality of the CRT tv with SD channels.

I was not considering plasmas, dont know why, but I was looking at the shop on the Sony LCDs, and there was one cheap Samsung plasma between them. They all showed the same HD feed with movie fragments. Guess which one looked the best and most natural?

Could you list disadvatages of plasma? So far I could gather:
- flickering
- phosphor trails (how ppl say it can be good for gaming and sports if it has that?)
- low resolution, so not to be used as PC monitor, for example
+ good SD picture quality
- dancing pixels
- noise in dark areas (he? I thought that was LCDs problem)

LCD:
- crappy SD picture, including DVDs
+ excellent photoframe and PC monitor

I never had a plasma, but i consider one now. Could someone confirm/add/remove all these points?

Your 8 series was faulty or poorly set up mate. Unless you were using the analogue tuner??
The Samsung LCD is every bit as good as any plasma when it comes to decent SD material, as long as it isn't a really dark scene.


Flickering?? never heard of that.

Phosphor trails, no worse than most LCD panel delay, but some people notice it. Not on all screens and if you do see it you will see it in the shop.

Low res?? Not really a problem, but if everything else is equal than the higher res screen will look sharper.
I will say this though, a 768 plasma tends to show around 700 lines resolution with a moving image, where as the Sasmung 1080p panel struggles to show 600 lines resolution with a moving image.
The Pioneer 5090 1080p will show nearly 1000 lines resolution with a moving image as does the PZ80 panasonic.

Dancing pixels - Pioneer trait, not on other panels but doesn't bother many.

SD pic - depends on the panel. Generally because they have better black levels SD has much more punch, proper blacks give the picture depth, without it it will never look great.

[KyoDash]

Could you list disadvatages of plasma? So far I could gather:
- flickering
- phosphor trails (how ppl say it can be good for gaming and sports if it has that?)
- low resolution, so not to be used as PC monitor, for example
+ good SD picture quality
- dancing pixels
- noise in dark areas (he? I thought that was LCDs problem)

LCD:
- crappy SD picture, including DVDs
+ excellent photoframe and PC monitor

- Flickering generally isn't an issue as most plasmas have 100hz processing which eliminates flicker completely.

- Phosphor trails vary from make and model, though are visable on all plasmas to an extent, but more so on some content than others. For example on Gears of War it's very visable, but not on Virtua Fighter 5.

- Low Resolution: The image may be too soft to be used as a proper PC monitor due to phorphor noise up close, but the same 1024x768 looks fantastic on PC CRT monitors. You may have to view stuff closer to the screen than an LCD.

- SD: Poor compared to a 480i/576i CRT, and DVDs in progressive aren't as good looking compared to a 480p CRT, but the image still looks great (DVDs) and DTV. is more than bareable.

[jj-yorks]

well, still dont think LCD has moved on at all....ok can look good playing 1080p like any panel, but in the real world just doesnt give the picture quality you would expect for a tv around £800......who knows in a few years it may improve but there will no doubt be a 42" OLED out by then for us to complain about until then there is always plasma.....trust your eyes and save hours of fiddling with settings on an LCD in the hope of a slight improvement, (been there done that and dont intend to go back)

[gizlaroc]

Originally Posted by The Snake

What?, are you saying that when running in you turn the brightness up.

Edit: Ignore that you're talking about removing existing IR not preventing it in the early stages of a screen life.

No I'm not.

Think about it.



Image retention occurs when there are bright objects on a dark background, so black screen with bright white lettering across it will cause burn pretty easily.

If you reduce contrast you are reducing luminance, the white level.

If you up the Brightness you are upping the black level, which will reduce the contrast (that is why contrast and brightness are labeled incorrectly on displays!!) thus helping reduce the chance of image burn.

[curveball]

I used to own a Panasonic LCD and now have a Panasonic Plasma.

In every single way I prefer the Plasma over the LCD.

[mattjohn7]

Well it certainly seems as though you're all going for the plasma. Mr X - I was in exactly the same position, couldn't decide what to buy and ended up spending nearly a year thinking about it. I ended up buying the 40W4000 3 months ago and to be honest it think its a cracking unit, granted i do watch the majority of stuff on HD, but the picture is sharp, contrast is good and have no issues what so ever. In the end this is a personal decision. I can't criticise the plasma as i don't have one but it thought i should voice the side of LCD!!!

[The Snake]

Originally Posted by gizlaroc

No I'm not.

Think about it.



Image retention occurs when there are bright objects on a dark background, so black screen with bright white lettering across it will cause burn pretty easily.

If you reduce contrast you are reducing luminance, the white level.

If you up the Brightness you are upping the black level, which will reduce the contrast (that is why contrast and brightness are labeled incorrectly on displays!!) thus helping reduce the chance of image burn.

As a simpleton i'm going to ignore that, just turn it all (contrast, brightness etc below half way) down in the first 200 hours and don't watch/play anything with a logo and i'm sure everything will be ok as it was with mine.

Asuming you need to bother in the first place, not saying you do, not saying you don't.