Plasma Image retention.

O

orange66

Guest
Plasma Image retention.

There are various opinions on the forum regarding image retention. Some of these opinions do need to be addressed.

Comment; “Modern plasmas are no more likely to suffer image burn-in than CRT’s”.

In my experience, this is simply not true. I own a Sony Wega Trinitron CRT, a 23 inch Apple Cinema Display, a 20 inch iMac G5 LCD (typing on now) and a Panasonic TH-42PV500B HD plasma.

The Sony CRT has never once shown the slightest trace of image retention. However, I would not discount the idea that other CRT’s might.

The Apple displays are both susceptible to image retention. In particular, along the top, where the OSX menu banner is always on. In terms of permanency, it is fairly easy to remove. Months of static image retention can be removed with hours of bright screen saver use in my experience. I have yet to see any permanent retention.

The Plasma display when brand new, was very susceptible to image retention. After I had run the set in for 100 hours, over 3 days it was exposed to around 10 hours of the Cbeebies logo. This resulted in an image retention that I was told by Panasonic was probably permanent, but they offered to send an engineer out to attempt to remove it, which they would charge me for. I decided to decline this, as the ballpark figure for this was “hundreds”. It took me over two months of use to finally shift this image. You may ask, how on earth can 10 hours of logo take so long to shift? The answer is, the screen was not run in enough, and the logo was in colour.

How does near permanent image retention manifest itself? Well, to start with, the logo fades quite a bit. Things seem to go quite well. However, once about 80% of it is gone, the rest is very, very difficult to remove. You see it depending on what you are looking at. In my case, it was most noticeable whenever blue sky was on display, or bright white.
I tried exposing the screen to many hours of non logo TV, but all it seemed to do was raise the brightness of the remaining retention along with the rest of the screen. Then I tried analogue noise, in dynamic mode. This had some effect, but not enough. Cracking the problem, was selective use of colour. I looped a video tape of a soccer match, placed the set in zoom one, to remove the score, and left it for several days (but not 24 hours a day) This really ate into the retention. Oddly, exposing it to red images was not quite as effective. The real key to dealing with it was blue/purple images. Looping blue purple imagery finally shifted just about all of it. As a side note, it just came back from a repair, and when I turned it on first time, the logo was faintly still there, but regular use has banished it again

Comment, “Image retention is not the same as burn in”

Um, yes it is. The only difference between image retention and burn-in, is time. By the way, set manufacturers refer to burn-in as “permanent after image”


Comment “People who say they have burn in are exaggerating or spreading myths”

Ok, now this one is hard to deal with if you have lived with the nightmare of image retention.

Let’s consider the advice given in the manuals for the two most talked about plasmas on these forums, the Panasonic PV500, and the Pioneer 436 XDE.

The Panasonic first;

“Do not allow a still picture to be displayed for an extended period, as this can cause a permanent after-image to remain on the Plasma TV.
Examples of still pictures include logos, video games, computer images, teletext and images displayed in 4:3 mode.”

And Panasonics warning if you ignore this;

“The permanent after-image on the Plasma TV resulting from fixed image use is not an operating defect and as such is not covered by the warranty. This product is not designed to display fixed images for extended periods of time”


Now Pioneer;

“Whenever possible, avoid frequently displaying the same image or virtually still moving pictures (e.g. closed-captioned images or video game images which have static portions).

And Pioneers warning if you ignore this;

“The following are typical effects of a phosphor-based matrix display and as such, are not covered by the manufacturer’s limited warranties:

Permanent residual images upon the phosphors of the panel.”

Off the record, dealers and makers of these sets talk of running them in to toughen them up so that you can display such images. But please note it is OFF THE RECORD, for a good reason. It is not an exact science, and while a 100 hours maybe be enough to toughen up one display, an identical one may need 200 hours.

In my experience, 200 hours is minimum. The running in setings for various sets are elsewhere in the forum.

Please take the advice in the manual over and above any found on the net. The people who make your Plasma know better than anyone whether the set is liable to suffer image retention, and if you take the advice of a post on the net, over the advice in the manual, you are taking a huge risk with a very expensive television.

Finally, if you do have a plasma that has suffered no image retention, please do not cast any doubt on people who have.

Thankyou.
 
Re: Your Apple monitor, LCD's don't suffer from screen burn.

Gary A
 
GAmbrose said:
Re: Your Apple monitor, LCD's don't suffer from screen burn.

Gary A

they do suffer from a different form of retention though.

its usually very quick to shift.

orange66, completely agree with you. everyone is getting too confident again about screen burn being a thing of the past and as such taking less precautions. its only a matter of time before floods of burn stories come in and everyone is scared to hell of logos.

edit: im not trying to scare people here! we literally use our plasma like a poster, displaying teletext and sky sports news for hours on end, and although its over 1000 hours old, no hint of retention.

it seems HD panels are more susceptible to burn/retention/permanent after image etc from the stories here.
 
I got in this PM, and found 'no signal on input 1' displayed on my PHD8. (Lumagen message) Heart in mouth, started the system properly, no trace of image retention. The panel is now 200 hours old. That white message had been on there for 4 hours. I have had 3 weeks worth of image retention before, likewise inflicted during my absence. This was my network wiring techies leching at the babes on the music channels at lunchtime, managed to turn it on, but not off! Correct run in and subsequent settings do prevent burn in. I agree it still takes 200 or so hours to be sure.
 
Any idea on how to actually shift it?

Is there a dvd we can download to help with "run-in" if we get some retention? Like snow or a white image etc?

Thanks.
 
:rolleyes::clap: Congratulations you have manged to revive a 3yr old thread...I hope there is a prize :rotfl::suicide:

But in the true AV Forums spirit I will give you my answer anyway. I use an untuned analogue channel for an out if my kids watch too much heavy logo channels, Disney Channel take a bow :rolleyes:
 
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I am not casting doubts on Burn in or IR and I know screens that have suffered from this and was one of the main reasons I never purchased Plasma because I use my display as a computer monitor for work, games and movies. But, with today's Plasma's the only way you will get screen burn is if the set is faulty or you use crazy brightness and contrast or of course if you don't look after the set.

As for this statement "Please take the advice in the manual over and above any found on the net. The people who make your Plasma know better than anyone whether the set is liable to suffer image retention, and if you take the advice of a post on the net, over the advice in the manual, you are taking a huge risk with a very expensive television. "

Most manuals are full of stuff tellling you what not to do etc etc, covering themselves for as many eventualities as they can. I will give an example, the Samsung F71. The best picture was got by going into the service menu and changing the dynamic dimming to off. This resulted in Sasmung releasing the next set of TV's with that option in the TV menu. You take everything you read and hear with a pinch of salt, but, I think I would trust a persons view from this forum over a manual anyday. And most manuals are just rehashes of older manuals with some of the pictures and models numbers changed.

Or take it another way, Orange66, you say trust the manual over people here, so it would follow on from that statement that I should trust the people who wrote the manual? Ok, fair enough, they should know what they are talking about, and I guess their technical department knows the most? So that's what I did when I was deciding to buy my plasma, I rang the Panasonic technical department and asked them a lot of questions, top of my list was screen burn. I said what I was using it for and their words were just like any advice you get here, take it easy on games and static images for the first 200-300 hours, and even after that time keep the contrast and brightness under 50% and screen burn will never be any issue.

And when calibrated after the 200 hours it turns out the best settings are all under 50% anyway it's actually not a problem.

Let me just say again, I am not doubting that there is still people getting burn in, but in today's TV's it's a problem that's slowly fading, some manufacturers are better than others. It's quite simple, it's a very expensive piece of hardware that you are buying and just like any other piece of hardware it needs looking after. And I know It's hard to mind things with Kids etc.

Oh sorry, this comes from having two Plasma's the PZ80 and the Pz800 since June and July. They are both on 12-16 hours a day. My brother leaves his on all the time and can get up and walk away from it for a few hours and leave the static PS3 screen up on it. There is some IR but, all you have to do is turn to a TV channel for a minute or two and then check it again and there is no IR left at all.
 
Hello,

Any idea if we can disable teletext on my Plasma (TH-42PX80B)?

my kids watch cbeebies, on the top right corner there is a big ugly icon to access teletext....
I had the ghosting icon but luckily removed by using https://www.pixelprotector.com/ (to answer Miyazaki 's answer)

good dvd!!!!well actually very good dvd

now i have to zoom in to get rid off this icon.
why bbc does that?

so yes, if you have any advice please let me know

thanks
 
Hello,

Any idea if we can disable teletext on my Plasma (TH-42PX80B)?

my kids watch cbeebies, on the top right corner there is a big ugly icon to access teletext....
I had the ghosting icon but luckily removed by using https://www.pixelprotector.com/ (to answer Miyazaki 's answer)

good dvd!!!!well actually very good dvd

now i have to zoom in to get rid off this icon.
why bbc does that?

so yes, if you have any advice please let me know

thanks


instead of pressing the red button, i've pressed the green button to hide the icon..
 

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