Panasonic 37/42 PX80 Series Owners thread - Part 3

[rewerb]

Originally Posted by will.duvel

adjustment is futile - you eventually get used to what you are watching anyway

I'm now 200 hours in and find Cinema/Warm good for most but I do feel it needs the brightness of "Normal" for some stuff.

Sorry mate, I disagree with that, "adjustmet is futile". Every TV is different.

The Cinema setting on the Panny is meant for Evening viewing (subdued lighting) . Daytime will require Normal/Evo settings. But anyones actual setting are not relevant to someone elses. Different ambient light, room colours....

[will.duvel]

LOL it was a joke buddy, hence the smiley

You can, however, drive yourself and your loved ones mad with constant fine tuning. I tend to use the Cinema/Normal modes pretty much as you describe

[biron_w]

I've had this tv a month or so now and I can honestly say it's superb.
Picture is just great.I think the sound is good too but some people say it isn't.Oh well.
Playing killzone 2 on playstation 3 on it through HDMI just looks incredible.

[MZan]

Originally Posted by mwardy

How interesting.
So are we back to 'adjust it till it looks right' for non-film sources? And where does it leave people who have paid out hundreds for professional calibration (not me)? Have they been mis-sold to?

People who have the inclination and will to pay out hundreds for professional calibration I'm pretty sure are primarily film enthusiasts, and do not care too much about how their freeview looks .

Logically it makes sense, the majority of people that buy television sets never adjust the picture settings out of the box, let alone try and calibrate their tv to a film production standard colourspace. So it would follow that most TV programmes are graded to allow for higher contrast, etc.

Its only in the past decade with the advent of DVDs and stuff like those THX calibrators on Pixar discs that most consumers have even given it a second thought.

However, personally I see a slow shift in this, and you can see for yourself. TV shows with high production values (e.g. some HBO stuff) look great with cinema settings, but watching the football or sky news does not.

For those that wanted it here are my 'Normal' settings that I use for freeview/games, sorry about the poor quality but I took this with my camera phone at short notice to give you an idea.

[late8]

The Discussion about Cinema Warm and Normal settings is what I’ve been on about for ages. I use my own Cinema settings for film but normal for TV. Its all dependent on the input and devices MZan's settings for example on my setup give a colour thats too saturated and fake but the other settings are similar.

Also what’s a big flaw is the Cinema Warm settings all stem back to one single source,- and that was settings done AFTER calibration and for low lighting which can be totally wrong in a normal daytime living room or even at night, yet some have taken this as a gospel setting. This is quoted on the site also referring to the change across the different devices used.

When adjusting the key thing to recognise is observation... Cloudy sky or snow for example are too yellow on Warm- looking out of the window on a cloudy day gives you a comparison. Always ask.. does that grass really look like that? does the skin?

Also I have found settings cant be one off.. I use observation as above and over time get a average as TV programs vary greatly. For my HUMAX 9200T RGB for example Normal: Contrast 40 Brightness 33 Colour 25 Sharpness 3 and Temp Normal works best giving the most natural picture for all TV shows and times of day.
I would never use that for film where Cinema: Contrast 40 Brightness 32 Colour 32 Sharpness 4 and Temp Warm works best. But again this depends on the device. The Bluray player for example has the 'Brighter Room' setting on boosting shadow detail and giving me a more atmospheric and deeper picture.

[MZan]

Originally Posted by late8

....Sharpness 4.....

As in, 4 clicks full? This looks very wrong on my set and I'd never set it that high for anything, lots of detail loss.

Remember also guys that just because something is technically accurate does not mean it will be pleasing to the eye, beauty is subjective after all.

If you think this is confusing just wait until we get 3DTV and super hi-def.
I sometimes get to go to trade shows, and last september I saw prototypes of each, super hi-def makes HD look like.....well , but don't worry it won't be commercially viable for a long time.

[bikemad]

Iv also discovered with my set turn overscan off for both dvd's & blurays it sharpens the image quite a bit.

[neilb1977]

I have had my 42px80b for about three weeks now, and am mostly impressed by it. SD (sky) is so much better than I could've hoped for, especially when compared the the blocky picture I was used to from my Samsung LE32R7BD LCD.

Blu ray playback through my PS3 is also very very good. No judder, which was also a problem on my samsung LCD. I am also happy enough with the sound through the built in speakers. Obviously it'd be a lot better with a proper system, but I just don’t have the money for the one right now, but aim to buy one on day.

My only problem with my new purchase is the performance when playing games on my PS3. I have it connected by HDMI to slot 1 and I am pretty unimpressed with the way GTA4, COD4 and Killzone 2 look. The proplem is when there is a camera pan or when I turn around quickly (in COD4 or Killzone 2) or when I move the camera around in GTA4, the picture is jerky and nowhere near as good (in this respect) as on my old LCD. This has left my pretty underwhelmed and disappointed. For example in GTA4 when I'm stood in the street and spin the camera round the buildings in the background seem to have two have two outlines, one slightly behind the other, and the picture is generally blurry. I'm not sure if I have my plasma or PS3 set up incorrectly or if it just something that I'll need to get used to with the tele. I'm hoping that over time it'll settle down, but the longer it goes on the more I begin to wonder. Gaming on my PS3 is the only downside I can find to this tele. Everything else is spot on.

I'm currently making my way through this thread (on page 13 of part one at the moment! ) to see if I can find any information about this, in the hope that I can identify a way of sorting it out. Like I said before, maybe I have something set up wrong (not sure if I should set it up for the ps3 to send a 1080i, 1080p or 720 signal?!?!?!) but hope I can sort it out.

So far my £570 seems to have been pretty well spent…..
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[biron_w]

Originally Posted by xboxps3wii

I have something set up wrong (not sure if I should set it up for the ps3 to send a 1080i, 1080p or 720 signal?!?!?!) but hope I can sort it out.

So far my £570 seems to have been pretty well spent…..
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I have my output set at automatic.Then your ps3 will output at whatever the native res of the game is,or 1080p for blu-ray/DVD,and the tv will do the scaling.I'm pretty sure I read in these forums somewhere that's the best bet.Otherwise it could mean both the PS3 and the TV doing scaling if you set the output on the PS3 to just one setting.

[neilb1977]

so there's nothing i need to worry about changing on the plasma side, just the ps3 output setting needs to be altered? i'll check what i have tonight. i think i set everything up to "automatic" when i got it...

[biron_w]

I'm no expert on this but that's what i've got my PS3 set at and have no problems with the picture.It certainly isn't jerky like you described.I've gone from an LCD to this TV and it is much,much better.
If it's on automatic then your PS3 menu should show on your tv as outputting at 1080p and it should change to 720p for killzone 2.

[Iain Gibson]

Originally Posted by MZan

I use cinema mode for just that, viewing films/dvds, it looks great and gives a very natural film-like look with excellent shadow detail.

However I don't use it for games or freeview, it looks awful for most tv programmes, everything looks washed-out and dull so I use 'normal' for that.

The reason? While most films are created to follow D65 standard, most TV shows are certainly not, in fact they use a different standard altogether - designed to be viewed at higher contrast settings.

I see there's an interesting debate here about industry standards, production values and calibration.

D65 refers to a white-point of x=0.3127, y=0.3290 on the CIE chromaticity chart, nothing more, nothing less. It is part of the EBU Tech. 3213 specification used by European SDTV ("PAL"), and of Rec. 709 for HDTV. I wonder if D65 is being confused with more general production standards

I have to confess I don't understand how shows can be designed to be viewed on higher contrast settings, since the effect of ramping up contrast is different on different technologies. So the results would be unpredictable. But I don't work in a studio so I may have to bow to greater knowledge.

I fully agree that in production and post-production, the colours may be manipulated to be far from what was originally captured on the camera, and in fact colour grading is an essential part of film and programme making. The producers will be viewing the results on highly calibrated monitors, or at least they should be. Whatever happens is an artistic decision, and a professional calibration allows you to see those artistic decisions as they were intended to be seen - whether or not you agree with them.

On a practical note, most sets can be calibrated to D65 fairly accurately. If a full ISF calibration is not within your budget then some calibrators (including me) offer a basic service that can at least show you which of the white balance pre-sets is closest to D65 and let you make an informed decision about which one to roll with.

Anyway, happy viewing!
Iain

[neilb1977]

Originally Posted by biron_w

I'm no expert on this but that's what i've got my PS3 set at and have no problems with the picture.It certainly isn't jerky like you described.I've gone from an LCD to this TV and it is much,much better.
If it's on automatic then your PS3 menu should show on your tv as outputting at 1080p and it should change to 720p for killzone 2.

cheers, i'll make sure its set to auto. Its no so much that the picture is that jerky, more that seems smeered and blurry when there is a pan or fast camera movement. like i said before, there appears to be two outlines when this happens . obviously when there is no movement the picture is spot on

[littlesthobo126]

Originally Posted by xboxps3wii

cheers, i'll make sure its set to auto. Its no so much that the picture is that jerky, more that seems smeered and blurry when there is a pan or fast camera movement. like i said before, there appears to be two outlines when this happens . obviously when there is no movement the picture is spot on

Hi, what I think your seeing is "Phosphor Trails" it's something most Plasma's suffer from. Also the degree to which you notice this depends from person to person as some people report to never really notice any trails, yet others seem too notice them so badly that it often times results in them returning the set and opting for LCD instead.

[sitalchauhan]

Originally Posted by littlesthobo126

Hi, what I think your seeing is "Phosphor Trails" it's something most Plasma's suffer from. Also the degree to which you notice this depends from person to person as some people report to never really notice any trails, yet others seem too notice them so badly that it often times results in them returning the set and opting for LCD instead.

Im pretty sure what he is describing isnt phosphor trails because phosphor trails are green and I havnt noticed any phosphor trials at all on my px80, but then again I might be one of the people that are not able to see them.
If the OP checks this website out he should be able to say wether it is phosphor trials:
What’s That Green Trail On My Plasma?

Phosphor trails get better as the number of hours of plasma use increase also, so if your tv is fairly new it might get better after a couple hundred hours use. Also, I think if you decrease your contrast, the phosphor trails should decrease.

Apparently the film Sin City shows up phosphor trails loads so if the OP has it on dvd he can test it out and see if it is phosphor trails he is seeing, or whether the image looks fine in which case it isnt phosphor trails he is seeing. Think the game Gears of War also shows them quite a lot.

EDIT: Heres a vid of green phosphor trails: