[neilios]

Originally Posted by Berties

Not sure, but do banks accept pride as a payment? Or the shops? Until cost of living goes down, need to address minimum wage/UK cost. Not just blame those who put two and two together, work out be worse off flipping burgers.

It doesn't matter,if people have to live within their means then thats how it is,, then tough,,the sat tv ,nikes will have to wait, but its not an excuse ,people should work,its good for the soul..

[Berties]

people should work,its good for the soul

Any old job, working at the tip, flipping burgers eh? Can I ask what you do?

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by weetsie

having kids does not have to cost a lot

you get mountains of cloths and toys as presents for newborns, you can save a fortune by using freecycle or similar to get cots, highchair ect and using reusable nappies will also save you thousands. milk is free and will do the job until the baby is old enough to eat homemade baby food which is far superior and cheaper than ready made stuff.

You are exactly right.
A child will cost as much to raise as you decide it will cost.
Of course, every kid it going to dream of being born into a family where everything it can dream of is supplied to it. But that's not real life.
It's like when you go abroad to some poor country and meet children who have nothing, and are polite, respectful and thankful or any small treat they may get, and you compare them to some spoilt little brat over here who'd throwing a wobbly as he can't have an iPhone and the Nokia model is not good enough for him. Or the chicken nuggets are not the right make.

A good slapping in needed to bring back to reality

I do not condone violence towards children of course.

[neilios]

Originally Posted by Berties

Any old job, working at the tip, flipping burgers eh? Can I ask what you do?

I have a trade , when i started it was yts ,£24 a week,then £26 for the second yr ,and if i didn't pull my weight i got a good hiding...

In the past i have done window cleaning,cleaned garage facia's ,owned a vinyl record shop,worked in a private garage changing tyres and exhausts.

At the moment i have a small plumbing and heating company,which is now branching out to managing full property refurbishments,which in turn enables me to promote and book national and international dj'd for small parties which me and a partner put on in and around yorkshire..

Me and the missus are currently looking at opening a new online business this yr ,she works full time as an odp,she does upto 75 hrs a week with her punishing shift patterns..

We are not rich ,we dont have a flashy car ,this yr we cannot afford a hol ,neither of us smoke,we drink moderately ,and we rarely go out and spend money on treats now we have a newborn,but i'll be damned if anybody is going to give me or my family a handout...

[mjn]

Originally Posted by guest5234

And to think you could have got all that for FREE if you did not work for a living

Yeah, but i got self respect.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Tempest

Of course, every kid it going to dream of being born into a family where everything it can dream of is supplied to it.

How do they do that?

[kav]

Originally Posted by signs

Let me sum up ....there is "never" a "right" time, just do it

This is absolutely right.

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by Berties

Any old job, working at the tip, flipping burgers eh? Can I ask what you do?

Originally Posted by neilios

I have a trade , when i started it was yts ,£24 a week,then £26 for the second yr ,and if i didn't pull my weight i got a good hiding...

In the past i have done window cleaning,cleaned garage facia's ,owned a vinyl record shop,worked in a private garage changing tyres and exhausts.

At the moment i have a small plumbing and heating company,which is now branching out to managing full property refurbishments,which in turn enables me to promote and book national and international dj'd for small parties which me and a partner put on in and around yorkshire..

Me and the missus are currently looking at opening a new online business this yr ,she works full time as an odp,she does upto 75 hrs a week with her punishing shift patterns..

We are not rich ,we dont have a flashy car ,this yr we cannot afford a hol ,neither of us smoke,we drink moderately ,and we rarely go out and spend money on treats now we have a newborn,but i'll be damned if anybody is going to give me or my family a handout...

One good answer deserves another, so are you going to tell neilios what you do?

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by Berties

Any old job, working at the tip, flipping burgers eh? Can I ask what you do?

Any old job, absolutely. I used to, don't have to at the moment but will when and if so required and more than one job as well in order to provide for my family...

Failing that I'll put my chemistry degree finally to use and start a drugs lab, enough idiots about that seem to have money for that

[Berties]

One good answer deserves another, so are you going to tell neilios what you do?

Why not? Seems others are preaching here a lot. So yeah he should flip burgers. Me? Want something better. Already had dead end job didn't go anywhere after years so had enough (and wouldn't want to move up either as people there were idiots) Would still be there, on 8.25 contract, doing 40 hours and ******* miserable in the job. Wouldn't be able to afford to pay for a kid, oh yeah want child benefit to top up crappy minimum wage salary. Knew of someone who did more than contract hours, was one up in chain, and hardly getting by, needed a lodger to help pay house bills. That is not is not living, it's living for work, it's being a work drone. Work work, until you're tired and dead. No thanks.

That was better than fast food joints, no way would work flipping burgers. Perhaps if I was mildly retarted as I know that's all I could do. Not saying incredibly intelligent, but everyone if they're skilled should get something that suits them, not working in a slaughterhouse cutting chicken heads off.

[accyuklad]

i seen many lasses with kids most do it to get there own place lol

[Tempest]

I know the same old arguments about cheap labour will be brought up when I mention this, but here goes anyway:

You should have to do some community work for your dole money, getting up in the morning, doing a full 8 hours and having to sign off at the end of the day.
If you refuse to do this, or mess about during the day, you get nothing, you go hungry and lose your benefit/housing etc.

It's too comfortable just laying in bed, in the winter when it's dark, in the warm indoors.

Perhaps if you had to get up early, go outside and wait at the bus stop whilst it;s still dark to get the the community work area to get your dole money, you many think a bit more about putting yourself out to get a better job.

Heck, I, and I'm sure most others here, hate getting up in the winter to go to work, and have to work hard all day, perhaps getting shouted at by our boss, so as we can get paid and afford to pay our bills and our Tax.

It's the root of the problem, Life on the dole is just to comfortable for many, when it should be pretty uncomfortable to the point you want to do and get a job to make things nicer.

[kav]

Originally Posted by Berties

Why not? Seems others are preaching here a lot. So yeah he should flip burgers. Me? Want something better. Already had dead end job didn't go anywhere after years so had enough (and wouldn't want to move up either as people there were idiots) Would still be there, on 8.25 contract, doing 40 hours and ******* miserable in the job. Wouldn't be able to afford to pay for a kid, oh yeah want child benefit to top up crappy minimum wage salary. Knew of someone who did more than contract hours, was one up in chain, and hardly getting by, needed a lodger to help pay house bills. That is not is not living, it's living for work, it's being a work drone. Work work, until you're tired and dead. No thanks.

That was better than fast food joints, no way would work flipping burgers. Perhaps if I was mildly retarted as I know that's all I could do. Not saying incredibly intelligent, but everyone if they're skilled should get something that suits them, not working in a slaughterhouse cutting chicken heads off.

So what is it you do?

Hang on, I remember.

[dejongj]

whilst I do not think it is as black and white as you have just stated Tempest I definitely do share the sentiment. And forget about winter, have you seen the wheather outside now and it is June. Damn I am not looking forward to hear the alarm clock at 5:30 and drive 70 miles to the nearest place I could find a contract for my company.

[Berties]

You should have to do some community work for your dole money, getting up in the morning, doing a full 8 hours and having to sign off at the end of the day.

Only agree with that if

a) If it gives the job seeker experience where they will learn something. So no giving street cleaner "work experience" to ex bankers, working at the tip etc.
b) Only 8 hours a week. if it's 12 hours + then you know agencies will take advantage of this
c) The business cannot get constant job seekers doing it, as it would then be classed as a vacancy. Gets around employment law. I know for a fact many businesses use skilled work experience people rather than hiring through temp agencies.

I've asked job centre for work trial/experience as a FLT, nope... only thing would be dead end job, packer, working in charity shop.

I've had two or three jobs at one time, ok when you're younger but need something better than just all minimum wage jobs.

[Berties]

Originally Posted by kav

So what is it you do?

Hang on, I remember.

Yeah on JS, hate it. Apply for tons of jobs, skilled enough for IT hardware support. Already worked at supermarkets wouldn't do it again.

[Solar]

Originally Posted by Tempest

and you compare them to some spoilt little brat over here who'd throwing a wobbly as he can't have an iPhone and the Nokia model is not good enough for him. Or the chicken nuggets are not the right make.

That just reminded me of some thing I saw on TV a while back.
Some girl threw a massive tantrum at her mum or dad because the Ford Mustang they bought her for her 16th birthday was the wrong colour.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by Solar

That just reminded me of some thing I saw on TV a while back.
Some girl threw a massive tantrum at her mum or dad because the Ford Mustang they bought her for her 16th birthday was the wrong colour.

I must admit, that if you are going to buy a birthday present like that you got to get the colour right. Especially for a girl.

[accyuklad]

lol

[Phil57]

Berties, I doubt you have the ability or leaning skills to be a FLT!!

[Berties]

Originally Posted by Phil57

Berties, I doubt you have the ability or leaning skills to be a FLT!!

Have a RTITB license.

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Berties

Have a RTITB license.

Yes and?
You would still be unable to be a FLT, possible a FLT driver, but definitely not a Fork Lift Truck!!

[Tempest]

Originally Posted by Berties

Only agree with that if

a) If it gives the job seeker experience where they will learn something. So no giving street cleaner "work experience" to ex bankers, working at the tip etc.
b) Only 8 hours a week. if it's 12 hours + then you know agencies will take advantage of this
c) The business cannot get constant job seekers doing it, as it would then be classed as a vacancy. Gets around employment law. I know for a fact many businesses use skilled work experience people rather than hiring through temp agencies.

I've asked job centre for work trial/experience as a FLT, nope... only thing would be dead end job, packer, working in charity shop.

I've had two or three jobs at one time, ok when you're younger but need something better than just all minimum wage jobs.

I will very nicely have to strongly disagree with you on one point here

And that is, I have no time, "NO TIME" for people who think they are too good or too qualified to do certain jobs.

You were on the board of directors last week were you, and now you are out of work, and asking for public money? Well you can collect the litter in the car park to earn your money.

I would not accept any of this, I'm too good, qualified or special to do that.
We all came out of the same hole when we were born, and we're all going to the same place when we die, no-one is above anyone else.
If you think someone else should be doing a job, then there's no reason on earth that you should not accept the same role.

[Berties]

Originally Posted by Phil57

Yes and?
You would still be unable to be a FLT, possible a FLT driver, but definitely not a Fork Lift Truck!!

er got RTITB counterbalance license, passed and in date. What more do you need? Pot belly?

[Phil57]

Originally Posted by Berties

er got RTITB counterbalance license, passed and in date. What more do you need? Pot belly?

Read my post man, read my post.

[dejongj]

Comprehension Berties, you can't be a FLT but you can be a FLT driver ;-)

[Dony]

Originally Posted by Berties

That was better than fast food joints, no way would work flipping burgers. Perhaps if I was mildly retarted as I know that's all I could do. Not saying incredibly intelligent, but everyone if they're skilled should get something that suits them, not working in a slaughterhouse cutting chicken heads off.

That's what I did while saving to get married.
Took a job on £5k a year, not because I'm mildly retarded, but I knew the chicken factory had a sister company in France and I was semi-fluent. It was a risk at the time, but less than a year later I got a transfer to the exports department, and shortly after that was seconded to the French factory where I worked as support to the sales managers and large accounts.
The decision to take that £5k a year job (when my friends were earning £15-£20k at the time) was the best decision I ever made, and has made me what I am now.

Must do is a great master.

[MrBlofeldt]

Originally Posted by Dony

Why don't you hand them over to the state then and let people who want children, but can't for various reasons, where they'll grow up in a loving home, rather than a home that relies solely on hand-outs.

So a home that relies on hand outs isn't a loving home...?

interesting theory !

[Scotteh]

I'm just lost for words at the OP lol, too many people like yourself are part of the reason why this Country is in the state it's in.

No doubt the children will grow up to do exactly the same as you, then complain they don't get enough "free money".

State hand outs are there to help people who genuinely need it.

[SyStemDeMoN]

I have a degree in computing and after the company I worked for went bump I found I could not get a descent paid job anymore as everyman and his dog can do computers these days.

So I retrained. Yep, I went from a white shirt and Tie wearing unemployed person to a jeans and shirt Lorry driver, and whats worse, I work nights now.

Result ?

More money and happier than I ever was working in a crappy office. Just because you have a qualification in something and you think that is all you can do, or all you are willing to do, does not mean you cannot do something about it and probably enjoy the change too.

Don't get me wrong, I feel I've wasted a portion of my life attending night classes to get my degree after a 12hr shift as a furnace man in a foundry for £250 for a 60hr week, while the others there were sent by their companies, got time off work to do projects and stuff but knew nothing about how a computer works or how to program it.
One guy even phoned me while he was at work and asked me to talk him through replacing a DVDROM drive at work !

I might also add that if I really wanted to, I wouldn't have to work. I have a disabled lad and from hearing from a lot of people (social workers, Hospital staff, friends from lads school) I could live off the state quite comfortably. My wife is a teacher (I was working nights while she trained in the day) so again there is an income coming in.

I work for a better standard of living. I like being able to do what I like without a cash limitation, because I grew up in a very cash limited life (single parent family with an older brother and sister), and while I Was a foundry worker we never had any money because I was paying a mortgage.

It was only about 2 years ago that I felt I had enough cash to justify paying for food at Chester Zoo (a mistake I won't repeat) or going to a frankie and bennys ( again a mistake).

But I like being able to do it If I feel like it.