[Tempest]

YouTube - Ricky Gervais - Gay Animals (Animals)


Mod Note: Contains Strong Language

[keydude]

Ok will put it like this.

Analsex behaviour is riskier by medical theory deduction.
Homosexual behaviour is riskier by statistics.

With the amount of doubt, should it be class as harmeless and taught as harmless to kids?

[IronGiant]

The chances of two virginal young boys transmitting aids is probably about the same as a virginal young boy catching syphyllis off a young virginal girl ie vanishingly small. The chances of the girl catching pregnancy off the boy is extremely high. So long as they are all taught the importance of wearing condoms there are unlikely to be any problems at all .

Therefore it is more important they should all learn about STDs or whatever we call them these days than anything else.

Dave

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by keydude

Ok will put it like this.

Analsex behaviour is riskier by medical theory deduction.
Homosexual behaviour is riskier by statistics.

With the amount of doubt, should it be class as harmeless and taught as harmless to kids?

What doubt? being gay, being in love with someone of the same sex, pleasureing each other comes with no health risks.

If someone happens to have hiv then receiveing anal sex from this person is 5 times more likly to pass it on to you, even then the chance is only 0.5% without a condom

should we teach hetosexual behaviour is risky? because if you think being hetrosexual is harmless then so is being homosexual.

[Happy Rich]

Originally Posted by Stuart Wright

We have spoken to our kids about gay people without expressing any opinion on the subject. We don't gays either positively or negatively, but at 8 and 10 the subject hasn't come up much. (Whereas I'm afraid I've not been able to resist telling them how ridiculous I think religion is).

[IronGiant]

Originally Posted by Noggin1980

should we teach heterosexual behaviour is risky? because if you think being hetrosexual is harmless then so is being homosexual.

All careless promiscuous sex carries health risks We should be teaching them the benefits of chastity

[keydude]

sex has risks statiscally maybe
homosexual sex has more risks statiscally maybe
sex in Africa between natives has most risks out of the 3

If a person has changed from being able to reproduce naturally to not, maybe harm has been done from a biological point of view.

[andywylde]

I'm curious to know exactly how Sex Education is taught at school now. When i had it we needed to get a letter of consent signed by a parent. I live in the Midlands, and there are classrooms with big percentages of kids of different religious backgrounds. I'm not up on religion too much but isn't homosexuality frowned upon in Islam? I don't want to start a religious debate but i can't see the teaching of homosexuality going down well* with some Muslim communities.

*no pun intended

[branny]

Well this thread is always going to be a controversial one! For me, this is about semantics.

To say that homosexuality is normal is incorrect. This suggests that it is the 'norm'. It isn't the norm - it's practiced by a significant minority.

If the lesson was that people are what they, the minority of people are gay and that we should accept their preference without repercussion then I would have no issue with that.

[IronGiant]

I think one or two relevant answers to your question will be acceptable andy but I think we need to try and keep religion out of this one as much as possible

[andywylde]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

I think one or two relevant answers to your question will be acceptable andy but I think we need to try and keep religion out of this one as much as possible

Understood

[Noggin1980]

Originally Posted by keydude

sex has risks statiscally maybe
homosexual sex has more risks statiscally maybe
sex in Africa between natives has most risks out of the 3

If a person has changed from being able to reproduce naturally to not, maybe harm has been done from a biological point of view.

Being in a relationship with someone of the same sex does not change you from being able to repoduce naturally to not being able to reproduce naturally. That relationship won't produce a child of course but you havn't in anyway lost the ability to reproduce. No harm has been done unless you concider safe hetrosexual sex to be harmful from a biological point of view.

Not to mention the world could really do with less people having children not more.

[keydude]

If someone has the universal definition/goal for meaning of life, then we can decide homosexuality is harmful to that.

In the mean time, I am sure it does stand in the way for some people's definition/goal and therefore to them may not be as harmless as it seems.

[Noggin1980]

Oh and by the way 10 times more women in the uk die each year from pregnancy than the ammount of people who die from aids.

[IronGiant]

I didn't look up the actual numbers, I thought that pointing out pregnancy can be a fatal condition would suffice, but that doesn't surprise me at all Noggin.

It wouldn't surprise me to discover that the number of infertile couples completely unable to have children exceeds the number of gay couples so the not increasing the world's population argument against homosexuality seems a bit tenuous. Unless we force the gay men to have sex with fertile women for the good of the planet Which, if homosexuality is genetic, will increase the proportion of gay men in the population massively

Dave

[keydude]

Will say it loud and clear of my view at the moment.

Some male friends of mine are gay and I would looove some lesbians friends (preferably hot ones).

Teaching kids that 'homosexuality is harmless' is a no for me as it is against my believe of way/meaning of life.(not religious)

Woman do die from giving birth and it is natural and a brave thing to do.

[branny]

Originally Posted by Noggin1980

Oh and by the way 10 times more women in the uk die each year from pregnancy than the ammount of people who die from aids.

I love statistics! I'm interested in the point being made here.

I truly hope your suggesting that proportionally 10 times more people die from pregnancy than they do from HIV/AIDS.

[IronGiant]

The point is that bring up the spectre of AIDS to demonstrate that being homosexual is not harmless should not hide the fact that being heterosexual is not without it's health problems...

Dave

[lucasisking]

137 posts, 70 no votes and still not a single valid argument against the position apart from 'I dont like the idea' or 'its not for me'.

I'd be interested to know what percentage of parents felt the same about their children being taught that 'all races are equal' in the past. Probably many felt equally justified-even smug-though they would be considered deeply racist today.

I only wish you guys knew my brother- I can promise you would not view him as a threat or harmful influence over your children.

[branny]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

137 posts, 70 no votes and still not a single valid argument against the position apart from 'I don't like the idea' or 'its not for me'.

I'd be interested to know what percentage of parents felt the same about their children being taught that 'all races are equal' in the past. Probably many felt equally justified-even smug-though they would be considered deeply racist today.

I only wish you guys knew my brother- I can promise you would not view him as a threat or harmful influence over your children.

Well I'm sure we are all really sorry to disappoint. There are numerous posts on here which don't go down the {'I don't like the idea' or 'its not for me'} route.

[IronGiant]

Stuart set the poll up using the phrase as used by Nick Clegg and people are voting accordingly.

Say I set up a poll saying: Is it ok to teach kids in school that cunnilingus is normal and harmless?

It would be interesting to see what the results would be.

I expect I would have to delete most of the posts discussing it though

Maybe we should have established whether being homosexual would ensure you die from aids, colonic cancer or reduce human civilisation to its knees because no-one will be born anymore, before deciding whether our children would be allowed to know it's OK to be attracted to someone of the same sex.

Dave

[branny]

Originally Posted by IronGiant

Say I set up a poll saying: Is it ok to teach kids in school that cunnilingus is normal and harmless?

Dave

http://www.avforums.com/forums/gener...-harmless.html

I hope I don't get an infraction!

[Miyazaki]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

137 posts, 70 no votes and still not a single valid argument against the position apart from 'I dont like the idea' or 'its not for me'.

I'd be interested to know what percentage of parents felt the same about their children being taught that 'all races are equal' in the past. Probably many felt equally justified-even smug-though they would be considered deeply racist today.

I only wish you guys knew my brother- I can promise you would not view him as a threat or harmful influence over your children.

Of course in your arrogance you fail to recognise it is only in your opinion that any views contrary to your own are not valid.

[Dave]

The original statement asks "is it ok to teach kids in school that homosexuality is normal and harmless". This has 2 separate points in my eyes.

Firstly is homosexuality normal and harmless? Yes and no, just because someone is attracted to the same sex does not make them weird, unhealthy or different to anyone else, they just fancy the same sex.

Do you feel "not normal" because you fancy the opposite sex? (assuming of course that you do). Of course you don't and gay people feel exactly the same about their sexual preference. It's society in general that makes homosexuality not normal, not homosexuality itself.

As for it being harmless, on a personal level it's no different from being heterosexual. However, when we start to look at society in general and the somewhat lack of acceptance in some quarters of homosexuality then yes it can be harmful. It's very hard to "come out" and for bloody good reason. This in itself can be harmful but only because this is still ingrained in our culture that being gay is somehow wrong. Changing attitudes is the key to changing this and the way to do it is through education. Which brings me on to the second point.

Should our children be taught that some people fancy people of the same sex or even both? Of course they should because this is the case in society today. We would welcome teaching our children that people who have a different skin colour to ourselves are normal and harmless so why on earth would anyone object to teaching them that there's nothing wrong with being gay.

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by Miyazaki

Of course in your arrogance you fail to recognise it is only in your opinion that any views contrary to your own are not valid.

We're not talking about opinions. Im asking what practical arguments you can bring to bear on the question that is the subject of this topic. None are forthcoming. I just find it disappointing.

Especially since if we were talking about race or religion- rather than sexuality- half of your 'opinions' (baseless though they are) would be considered deeply offensive.

[branny]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

We're not talking about opinions. Im asking what practical arguments you can bring to bear on the question that is the subject of this topic. None are forthcoming. I just find it disappointing.

Especially since if we were talking about race or religion- rather than sexuality- half of your 'opinions' (baseless though they are) would be considered deeply offensive.

Sir,

So because the views presented are contrary to your own 'practical arguments' they are classed as 'opinions', 'baseless' and 'offensive'?

Your 'practical arguments' are the same - nothing other than opinions or baseless. Belittling others for not agreeing with you is the same too - offensive.

[IronGiant]

Poll:The original question seems to be almost irrelevant sometimes so let's try again. Please vote on the following:

[ ] I am not homophobic and am comfortable with my children knowing that if they love someone of the same sex I won't disinherit them

[ ] I may be homophobic and am be comfortable with my children knowing that if they love someone of the same sex I won't disinherit them

[ ] I may be homophobic and am comfortable with my children knowing that if they love someone of the same sex I might disinherit them

[ ] I may be homophobic and am comfortable with my children knowing that if they love someone of the same sex I will disinherit them

[ ] I am homophobic and am comfortable with my children knowing that if they love someone of the same sex I won't disinherit them

[ ] I am homophobic and am comfortable with my children knowing that if they love someone of the same sex I might disinherit them

[ ] I am homophobic and am comfortable with my children knowing that if they love someone of the same sex I will disinherit them

Branny, no, you don't need to set it up.

Dave

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by branny

Sir,

So because the views presented are contrary to your own 'practical arguments' they are classed as 'opinions', 'baseless' and 'offensive'?

.

Pretty much, yeah. The 'opinion' of the naysayers seems to be along these lines:

"I've got nothing against gays, but I voted 'no' the the question 'is it ok to teach kids that homosexuality is normal & harmless'. They fancy the same sex and thats not normal or natural in Britain. They are just a large minority. Its true that very few of them spread aids but you cant take chances with kids can you? By the way, that's my opinion and if you disagree with it, then you must have the problem."

Now replace the words in bold with the following:

Asians
'Are all races equally British'
Have brown skin
Are actually terrorists

I repeat, provide a coherent argument or reason why knowledge and acceptance of same sex relationships would cause harm to our youth, and i will respect your opinion.

[branny]

Lucasking - Your argument is semantic and frankly flawed.

We can all replace phrases to suit our views. Views = opinions = without fact = baseless.

I will give your view the the credit it deserves - none. Your view follows the equation.

[IronGiant]

I would try and avoid keeping racist comparisons out of the thread although I fully appreciate the parallel.

However:

Its true that very few of them spread aids

"Them? them? their kind? ... spread disease". that's either a terribly unfortunate choice of words or...

I'm trying to resist succumbing to Godwin's law myself.