[AML]

The new nintendo DS has been given a few (much needed in my opinion) cosmetic as well as technological changes!
The unit now look smuch thiner, design style is more mature, and it now has speakers, (2 stereo) where the "dips" used to be on the top half of the unit.

The top screen also seems to be bigger than what it was before, and the bottom screen looks smaller, but its hard to tell from the pictures. The controls now look more like the controlls of the super nintendo pad!

All these changes have been finalized and i think make the DS look MUCH better! See for yourselves!

http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/534/534070p1.html

[Solar]

Software companies worldwide have more than 120 Nintendo DS games in development. Nintendo alone is developing more than 20 titles, and in excess of 100 companies have signed on to create games for the new system. The company is expected to announce the launch date, price, and game line-up in the near future.

now thats some thing to save for :o

Dual screens, chat functions, a touch screen, wireless capabilities, voice recognition - these abilities surpass anything attempted before, and consumers will benefit from the creativity and innovation the new features bring to the world of video games

im starting to think the psp is not going to get a chance

[Paul Williams]

I don't think it ever (PSP) really had a chance and that was just based on the backward compatability with the GBA, which I believe gives it the edge for current GBA users and we know how many of those there are.

Paul

Now thats more like it

so much slicker and sexier, good move

[CAS FAN]

Yeah it's a very nice looking pice of kit I must say!! I was tempted to dabble in a handheld again with the GBA SP but was never that bothered.

This on the other hand looks light years ahead and as long as the price isn't silly (i.e. it needs to be sub £100) then i'm pretty sure i'll dabble!

I'm not really sure at what market the PSP is going at and I think that will be it's downfall. It's rumoured price is too expensive to be just bought for mobile gaming and the specialised media means that you can't just stick a dvd in and people aren't going to buy the same films twice (i.e. once for home & once for mobile viewing).

I think Ninty have got this so, so right and whist they may struggle in the full size console arena the are Kings of the Handheld - that's for sure!

[H4r7y]

those new pics have changed my impressions.
DS may now be a contender to land on my shelf just for the slick looks

[CAS FAN]

Yeah, especially as it's rumoured to be priced at under £100! It can't fail in my eyes!

[Miyazaki]

Thank god for that.

It looked like a pile of ****e before.

Still can't fathom the dual screens though.

What a waste of time. I bet no more than a handful of games utilise it properly, while all games will sap the battery life by putting frankly pointless maps on mariokart for it

Theres some great ideas coming from the developers for using the 2 screens i cant wait

loads os possibilities, i think Nintendo will make sure the best developers use the full funtionality of the device,

Squaresoft have announced massive support for it with most there licenses going to appear on DS and i can think of many ways to use 2 screens with there games

I would love games like Command And Conquer they would work great

We will see i think its gona be a success

[Tetlee]

Originally Posted by Games Guru

. I bet no more than a handful of games utilise it properly, while all games will sap the battery life by putting frankly pointless maps on mariokart for it

Yep, I hope there will be an option to disable one screen with games that you don't really need two in order to save battery power. I agree, it would be anoying to waste battery juice if the top screen is only showing maps.

Also as Betamac mentioned, a C&C game would be great with the two screens, then a map would be usefull!! Will be interested to see just how the developers take advantage of the extra screen, but for sure there will be at least some titles that prove the point that two is better than one

Anyway, I'm liking the new looks of this handheld and will be hoping to pick one up nice and cheap when I visit Argentina next Feb

[Apnomis]

Well I must say, the PSP looked light years ahead of the DS. When I first saw the two I thought the DS looked like ****e and thought the PSP would win hands down just on it's looks. I also thought the DS was a bit naff and gimmicky. Now I'm not so sure, it's become a much tougher contest...

The PSP though my not have dual screens and a touch screen (still think that's a bit of a gimmick) but I'm pretty sure it will have chat functions, wireless capabilities, and voice recognition (along with language translation software).

The only real edge the DS has is it's backwards compatibility if that's the case. However the real test will be the price, if these UMD's Sony have come up with are cheap to produce and are priced agressively it could be anybodies game. Everyone is writing off the idea of buying a movie twice, but just say for a minute they only cost a fiver a piece, now I know that's highly unlikely, but you get the idea...

[Miyazaki]

Whys that unlikely?

Most back-catalogue dvds are about a £5 and a couple of months after a new release you can ofter find it for £10.

I bet there will be blank UMD's and people will start copying games and films.

That is the only way I will have films on a PSP I may or may not own is if I can copy my dvd to my handheld, which I'm led to believe is not illegal here, if only for my private use.

[CAS FAN]

At the end of the day this will be a battle of 2 huge brands.

When it comes to handhelds the Gameboy is king but when it comes to consoles the Playstation is king (I mean brand wise so as to avoid an X-Box is better than Playstation debate).

Brand wise GameCube and X-Box are not particularly good and although both are more powerful that the PS2 the sales figures are not in the same league. Gameboy on the other hand has built up a very solid brand so it will be interesting if PS2 owners buy the Playstation portable on the basis that it's a playstation or if they stick with Nintendo's offereing. I personally think that brand loyalty is strong in video games (the heated discussions that occasionally develop on this forum are testiment to that) especially amongst casual gamers who like to know where they stand. Let's face it if they bought a ps2 over a game cube then surely they prefer the playstation games and I think this will carry across to the handhelds. If you prefer your Gran Turismo, PES and Virtua fighters to your Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda then surely you won't buy a DS over a PSP, and vica versa.

They are both nice looking machines - one has a huge screen and one has 2 screens. One looks like a game and watch (which lets face it will be viewed as a toy), the other looks like an expensive & hi tech piece of kit. The PSP will almost certainly be quite a bit more expensive but it's target market can probably afford it. Most of all though the product with the strongest brand and the widest selection of games (and other software, films etc) will probably be the most successful.

[Apnomis]

Originally Posted by gthom3

At the end of the day this will be a battle of 2 huge brands.

When it comes to handhelds the Gameboy is king but when it comes to consoles the Playstation is king (I mean brand wise so as to avoid an X-Box is better than Playstation debate).

Brand wise GameCube and X-Box are not particularly good and although both are more powerful that the PS2 the sales figures are not in the same league. Gameboy on the other hand has built up a very solid brand so it will be interesting if PS2 owners buy the Playstation portable on the basis that it's a playstation or if they stick with Nintendo's offereing. I personally think that brand loyalty is strong in video games (the heated discussions that occasionally develop on this forum are testiment to that) especially amongst casual gamers who like to know where they stand. Let's face it if they bought a ps2 over a game cube then surely they prefer the playstation games and I think this will carry across to the handhelds. If you prefer your Gran Turismo, PES and Virtua fighters to your Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda then surely you won't buy a DS over a PSP, and vica versa.

They are both nice looking machines - one has a huge screen and one has 2 screens. One looks like a game and watch (which lets face it will be viewed as a toy), the other looks like an expensive & hi tech piece of kit. The PSP will almost certainly be quite a bit more expensive but it's target market can probably afford it. Most of all though the product with the strongest brand and the widest selection of games (and other software, films etc) will probably be the most successful.

Good points there gthom3. Sony & Ninty both control different areas of the market, and I think for the most part that will carry down to handhelds dependent on price. I for one can't stand the Mario/Zelda games, I've never been a huge fan of cutesy Japanese games, I prefer more realistic graphics, more compelling story and more challenging games. So for me if I was to get a handheld it will only ever be a PSP. You're also right that the DS will be classed as a toy where the PSP would be put in the high-tech gadget category along with mobile phones, PDA's and mp3 players etc. With it's USB ports and Memory Stick compatability it has the potential to be a whole lot more than a games machine, digital photo album is the first obvious application that comes to mind...

I would personally feel a bit silly whipping out a Ninty DS and having a play with it in public, or at work etc. But I wouldn't mind showing off my shiny new PSP.

I don't expect the Ninty Fanboys to go buying a PSP, but I think they are overlooking the market of a) Gameboy owners that aren't Fanboys, b) PS2 owners that don't have a handheld, c) anyone over 20 that up until the PSP have thought it a bit geeky to be seen with a Gameboy.

As for Gameboy being no 1 in the handheld market that's because it's number 1 or 1! Discounting mobile phones and Nokia's recent attempt, Ninty have never been properly challenged in the handheld market since the days for the Sega GameGear! So it's hardly surprising they have the dominance, they've been the only player in the market for so long! In fact I think the market has been quite stagnant personally, from what I've seen of Gameboy games they are low quality, low colour, 2D scrollers. Technologically they're miles behind their big brothers. But they've never had to revolutionise until now. Now Sony has come in a brought console technology to handhelds, so Ninty had to act. Personally I think the introduction of the PSP will be just what the market needed, and I think even Ninty fanboys would have to give a nod to Sony on that front.

If you asked me whether I would want to be seen poking Pikachu on a little square touch screen or playing Mario Cart via WiFi, or for an extra say £50 be playing the PS2 port of Gran Turismo or Metal Gear Solid or be playing PES with someone via WiFi etc on a large 16:9 screen on an extremely cool looking piece of techonolgy. I'd say the PSP wins hands down, but that's just me, I like adult games and I like gadgets...

[CAS FAN]

To be honest any machine that allows wireless multiplayer PES4 and GT4 will rule in my book!

You are right in that the Gameboy hasn't really been challenged yet and they've probably got the sternest challenger possible now in the Playstation! It's similar to when the original Playstation first came out - Nintendo and Sega hadn't really been challenged by anyone else, yet along came a console with no history, no pre existing classic titles or characters and it wiped the floor with them both!

If Sony take the handheld market by storm, just as they did the console market then domination will be too soft a word for their grasp over home video gaming. Personally I would like to see a better challenge from Microsoft to stop this domination, but that's another story.

The reason the gameboy has had no competition is because it has seen them all off, exacxtly like it did with the gamegear, many have tried but none have come close to taking any market share, also if you think your be paying an extra £50 for PSP think again more like £100 - £150 extra,

But once again anouther person ASSUMES all the DS will have is mario and zelda, it really is pathetic to see that, if you actually took the time to look for the offical games list you would see many top games from top companies have been announced including stuff like Viewtiful Joe, EA Sports series, Goldeneye, Need For Speed Underground, Castlevania, Asphalt GT and many more over 60 games in delvelopment alrady just from western companies forgetting the masses from Japan,

You are basing your oppions on Nintendos own Franchises and not looking elsewhere whats the point in that? the gameboy is one of the biggest supported platforms ever and the DS will be the same there be a lot more than mario and zelda to play

The PSP will be full of 1:1 Ports of PS2 games now if you like that kind of thing then great alot of people dont want that and you can be asured with the new ways of controling on the DS the games will at least have a twist to them.

I have never owned a gameboy ever but i am going to buy a DS just because it looks damm fun and the new design is great too.

[CAS FAN]

That's where the problem lies though Betamac - most people simply think of mario when they hear the word Nintendo. The gameboy has somewhat managed to escape the trap that the N64 and the GC have fallen into, mainly because if you wanted a handheld during the last 10 years your only real choice has been the Gameboy. It's a bit like why most people will run a version of windows on their PC's.

There hasn't really been any challenge for the Gameboys crown (especially in the west) since the days of the Lynx & Gamecube. Sure there was the Neo Geo Pocket and there's the GP32 in Japan but the NGpocket was never going to challenge the gamecube - especially as it was aiming at the same market.

Sony are aiming at a totally different market with this product - mainly the 20-30 year olds with disposable income. Gameboy is primarily aimed at 8-20 year olds - the game & watch styling gives this away.

If you got your DS out at work people would probably tell you to grow up, but if you got your PSP out they would probably go "wow that's class".

Both look great machines though and i'm sure both will be successful in their respective markets!

Have to say you have some very immature friends/work collegues if they would tell you to grow up when you got a Gameboy/DS out your pocket,

I would never dream of telling someone that and nobody i know would either, its a handheld, you play games on it, why do you need to grow up for using it?

Dont know who your basing that oppinion on maybe yourself but from my expeience its not shared by the majority,

I will also note nobody i know would spend £200 - £300 on a Handheld, they would on a mobile phone (like me) but definately not a handheld games console,

[Apnomis]

Has there been confirmation of the prices? Until then any speculation about prices is, well just speculation! I've heard speculation on several different sites that the PSP could be priced at £150, maybe even as low as £100! So unless you're expecting the DS to retail at £50 then we just don't know at this point what the price difference will be until the prices are announced. Sony aren't stupid they're going to have done their research about how much their market is willing to pay. Also they are bound to take into account the price of the DS. Again we have no idea how much UMD's cost to produce games could be £9.99 for all we know! Although the more realistic speculation points to them being £19.99 to £24.99.

The reason the PSP has many 1:1 ports is that it has the graphics capability to support that. I've noticed it to be a common assumption, mainly from Ninty Fanboys, that the PSP will ship with no original titles. Do you honestly think Sony would be where they are today with that sort of stupidity? There will be many new titles, things that you wouldn't play on a big screen and are naturally suited to handhelds like puzzles etc. There are also confirmed new versions of Devil May Cry, Wipeout, Metal Gear, MediEvil etc. exclusive to the PSP. It also wouldn't surprise me if there's a new version of Tomb Raider in the pipeline exclusive to the PSP as a nice tempation to potential buyers.

Let's not try and be so silly as to big up the fact that Nintendo have done unique games for their handhelds in the past. The only reason they've never done 1:1 ports is because their handheld technology is so woefully inferior to the likes of the Gamecube 1:1 ports would be impossible. Gameboy has had many ports, they've just had to be made shorter 2D sidewards scrolling 256 colour versions! Although granted it would still be very difficult to do ports with a 2 screen system, though I would expect them to be a lot more similar to Cube titles on the DS from now on.

[CAS FAN]

I'm not saying I would say "grow up" but i'm sure many people would perceive the DS as a kid's toy. That doesn't really matter though and personally I think it looks cool.

The PSP will probably be priced in the £150 - £200 bracket, which is good for a machine of it's capability. I certainly wouldn't pay anything like £200 for a mobile phone (generally I just get the latest model free each year with my contract) but I paid £200 for my PDA and about £200 for a PSP would be right.

Like I said, the DS is really aimed at the younger market (that doesn't mean that older people like me can't enjoy it though), it's less sophisticated and powerful and is a pure gaming handheld. The PSP is a more sophisticated piece of kit, which is more powerful and is more of a multimedia platform as opposed to just a pure gaming device. I'd expect to pay more for a PSP just as i'd expect to pay more for a more powerful & better featured car than a more basic model.

Both look good, I love Ninty games and for what it is (a pure gaming machine) I think the DS looks great. I also think the PSP looks like a fantastic piece of kit that and I love the big wide screen on it especially.

Really though, whilst they both play games, they are also very different and are aimed at different (although partially converging) markets. They set out to achieve differing goals and really comparing the 2 is a bit silly.

[Apnomis]

Quite true comparing the two is a bit futile. I've just been watching a video of the PSP in action, I never noticed before that it's got a little analogue stick underneith the the digital controller which is quite cool. The guy was briefly showing off some of the features of the PSP, with the USB ports, the various programs that can be run from the UMD drive and the storage of the memory stick there are big possibilities for the PSP. In the demo they showed off games, movies, music videos, some of the accessories included a digital camera (camcorder?) attachment and a mini keyboard. The thing I found most interesting though was the guy doing the talk mentioned the possibility of a GPS attachment. Now that I did find interesting, a GPS attachement and a UK map on a UMD, that would easily justify the purchase for me as I've been interested in GPS, but don't really require a full PDA. I think it goes to prove that the development potential is there for a near PDA device, it's clear before the launch that their intention is to develop something much more than a games device.

[CAS FAN]

Exactly, that's the strength of this machine. Ever since Sony joined the console market it has tried to lift games consoles away from being mere toys. The PS2 looked a far more serious piece of equipment than what had gone before and they have intentionally designed their products to look more like pieces of AV hardware and less like toys.

This is one of the reasons behind their success. 20-30 year olds generally don't want to be playing on things that look like they were designed (albeit well) for a younger age group.

The PSP is another intentional effort to move the shift in emphasis in gaming from being a kids's thing to a big boys toy. By producing a sleek looking, multifunctional device Sony have produced a unit that will appeal to a wider market than simply mobile games players.

With the PSP you could download your holiday movies on to it, your photos, mp3's and game demo's. You could use it as a PDA with a calendar, to do list, contact info and even add a GPS device. You can watch a film, music video or even download information videos & information such as train/plain times, special offers in shops etc (in wireless enabled areas). Oh and you could also play games of the same or similar quality as you can play on your big screen at home! I don't even see why it can't also be used as a large screen video phone with a mobile phone attached.

The thing about the PSP is it's versatility. When it replaces your gameboy, diary, mobile dvd player, gps unit and PDA it suddenly doesn't seem like too big or costly a device.

The PSP is a brave move by Sony IMO and I feel they should be congratulated for breaking away from the traditional Gameboy way of handheld gaming, and the limitations of what that has to offer.

Originally Posted by gthom3

Exactly, that's the strength of this machine. Ever since Sony joined the console market it has tried to lift games consoles away from being mere toys. The PS2 looked a far more serious piece of equipment than what had gone before and they have intentionally designed their products to look more like pieces of AV hardware and less like toys.

This is one of the reasons behind their success. 20-30 year olds generally don't want to be playing on things that look like they were designed (albeit well) for a younger age group.

The PSP is another intentional effort to move the shift in emphasis in gaming from being a kids's thing to a big boys toy. By producing a sleek looking, multifunctional device Sony have produced a unit that will appeal to a wider market than simply mobile games players.

With the PSP you could download your holiday movies on to it, your photos, mp3's and game demo's. You could use it as a PDA with a calendar, to do list, contact info and even add a GPS device. You can watch a film, music video or even download information videos & information such as train/plain times, special offers in shops etc (in wireless enabled areas). Oh and you could also play games of the same or similar quality as you can play on your big screen at home! I don't even see why it can't also be used as a large screen video phone with a mobile phone attached.

The thing about the PSP is it's versatility. When it replaces your gameboy, diary, mobile dvd player, gps unit and PDA it suddenly doesn't seem like too big or costly a device.

The PSP is a brave move by Sony IMO and I feel they should be congratulated for breaking away from the traditional Gameboy way of handheld gaming, and the limitations of what that has to offer.

Not many of the features you have just listed can be done "out the box" so not only are you paying a huge amount for the machine you need to pay a hell of alot more for memory sticks to hold all this information, UMD Movies to watch movies (Sony actually said you wont be able to play movies from the memory stick you have to buy UMD versions),

I think maybe we should wait until its out until we "speculate what you can actually do" as theres no doubt Sony will make sure you have to pay them money for all these xtra features and it wont be just a simple free process.

[Miyazaki]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the majority of gamers and indeed games on the Gameboy Advance are kiddie games. I think the average market is teenagers.

I believe the PSP will be aimed at 20-30 somethings, as it's a bit of a multi-media behemoth.

The DS looks firmly a teenagers/kids toy.

I can't see them competing directly, as if the DS is cheap and continues to have lots of kiddie games then it will continue to sell to parents, where as the PSP is sleek, "cool" and will sell by the bucketload to 20 and 30 somethings.

Originally Posted by Games Guru

Correct me if i'm wrong, but the majority of gamers and indeed games on the Gameboy Advance are kiddie games. I think the average market is teenagers.

I believe the PSP will be aimed at 20-30 somethings, as it's a bit of a multi-media behemoth.

The DS looks firmly a teenagers/kids toy.

I can't see them competing directly, as if the DS is cheap and continues to have lots of kiddie games then it will continue to sell to parents, where as the PSP is sleek, "cool" and will sell by the bucketload to 20 and 30 somethings.

EVERY Console Or Handheld With Nintendo branding is "Kiddie" In Your Oppinion, to be onest i stopped reading your posts with any "interest" months ago, i am sure i am not the only one as well,

By the time we get any unbiased oppinions out of you, Sega will of come out with a new console and take total market share from all competitors

(It just aint gona happen)



We Will See.......

[CAS FAN]

I'm sorry Betamac but I don't think the Games Guru is being biased he'd just stating the facts.

The DS and PSP (as I have also stated) are aimed at completely different markets and shouldn't be compared. The DS should be compared to the GBA and the PSP could be more compared to PDA's or even Laptops (admitidly with some additions, the keyboard & extra software).

I reiterate the point that I love Nintendo games as they are often extremely polished and deeply playable affairs. If I wanted a device that simply played games then a Ninteno handheld would deffinately do. I'm not too blind to know what their target market is though, as stated above around the 8-20 year old bracket. Also there's nothing wrong with a console being aimed at kids, after all it's when we're a child that our mind is at it's most active and we get the most enjoyment from games. It's a big market and one that Ninty has done well in. Everywhere I go I see kids with GBA's so they must be doing something right.

Regarding the functions of the PSP - agreed not all have been confirmed (christ the machine isn't even out yet) but the point of the post was to highlight the fact that the PSP is a multimedia tool, not just a games console.

IMO there is not console war style argument to be had here, both machines will be released for us to enjoy and the fact that they are aimed at different markets shouldn't be detrimental to either product.

[Sinzer]

Not much more to be said here chaps.