[CAS FAN]

So it all began (for us un the UK anyway) on the 2nd December 2005. Some of us received our tickets to the new generation that very morning and others (me included) were shafted by Amazon and sadly did not. Anyway thanks to German ebay, I joined the party just over 2 weeks later.

We then went on enjoying the new generation for the next year or so and were wowed by games like GRAW, Oblivion, PGR3 and Gears of War....The world was a simple place and really (other than the PC), there was just the one format to be concerned with. Then in December 06 I found myself stood in a queue outside a Toys R Us waiting to buy some device that would 'change gaming forever'! The jokes about the name had reduced to just a few per hour and after getting over the shock of going back to SD visuals...it was quite good fun. But then the festive period ended and there was the sound of many a Wii being boxed up to be brought out again at the next family get together. There were some very good highlights in the form of Excite Truck, Zelda TTP, Mario Galaxy, RE4:Wii Edition, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Kart Wii, but generally it's use was limited.

March 2007 was a strange one for me. Sony was releasing their new PS3 console and I had very little interest in it. It cost a whopping £425, looked like a shiney George Forman Grill and had a less than inspiring launch line up of games. It had one of these new Blu Ray drives in it, but i'd just bought my 360 HDDVD drive and surely that format would win as it seemed like the lower spec, cheaper option and it even continued the familiar DVD name to boot.

But being a tech geek, I had to have one and therefore stuck an order in with a week to go until launch and a week later it arrived. It's arrival was not greeted with the excitement of the 360 or even the Wii's appearance, but after unpacking it I was impressed straight away by the console. The games were pretty average (at best) and bar the odd PSN game, my only title was Motorstorm for the first few months of owning the console. This was a complete first for me and athough I really did like the console as a device I was really wondering why i'd spent the best part of a monkey on this black beast.

I didn't even rush out and buy loads of Blu Rays and instead continued supporting the HDDVD format on the whole.

As we approached the end of 2007 things began to change though. Games like Ratchet & Clank, Uncharted and GT5 Prologue saw me using the PS3 more and I found that I did actually prefer using the console to my 360. Then as we went into 2008 things picked up further with games like MGS4 hitting the system. The back end of that year saw further gems like Wipeout HD, Motorstorm PR & Resistance 2 and I found myself using the console more than the 360 which i'd previously spent most of my gaming time on. The 360 continued to have some great titles released on it (Mass Effect, Fable 2, Halo 3, Bioshock etc.) and the cross platform games (Fallout3, The Orange Box etc.) were generally better on the 360. The Wii got the odd play, but generally it's use was, shall we say.... sporadic!

Moving into 2009 and the PS3 has been pretty strong so far. Games like KZ2, iNFAMOUS, Wipeout HD Fury etc. provided some great releases and the console was becoming better featured all the time with a better online service, Play TV, Vidzone, Blu Ray Profile 2.0 and a better PSN store. MS on the other hand had reduced the prices of it's consoles and had seemed to finally solve the RROD issue with the Jasper chipset. The Elite became a very attractive buy at it's cheaper price and it became evident that Sony needed to do something to regain it's foothold in the market.

They have done that with the impending release of the PS3 slim! Priced the same as the Elite in the US, and slightly higher in the UK, the Slim brings the better featured PS3 (Blu Ray, Wireless) within the price range of the Elite for the first time.

It's been a tough first round for Sony and they've been on the ropes a few times early on! They've shown resilience though and are well placed at around 8 million sales behind the 360 as we enter round 2. They have struggled with the price of the console but now that is less of an issue and Sony have won their HD format war, which was obviously of cruical importance to them.

The next year should be very interesting indeed and already there seems to be a lot of folk who are now looking to dabble with the PS3, where as before it wasn't a factor.

It would be interesting to know what people's views are about how things may progress in what I see as the 2nd round of this console generation. My view is that Sony's console will become stronger in terms of sales and that I wouldn't be surprised to see the slim drop to £199 either before Christmas or in the Spring. I feel that MS need to keep the price of the Elite, less than that of the PS3 if they are to hope to improve their market share further.

Both the 360 & PS3 will continue with strong games line ups and it will be very interesting to see what happens with regard to Natal and Sony's motion controller. I'm not sure that we will see those until the next gen though.

Anyway, try and keep all responses civil and hopefully we can have an interesting debate about how we see things panning out.

[kav]

The biggest issues for me with the PS3 were Sony's ridiculous RRP's, and their arrogance prior to launch where they basically told consumers "you will wait for this because it will be the best thing ever". I have no particular loyalty to any brand, so I picked up a 360 and have enjoyed some fantastic gaming. I can certainly see the value in owning a PS3 - gone are the days of saying there are no games for it, only a blu-ray player, etc - but for me the key thing that needs to happen is for its RRP to drop below £200. As soon as that happens I'd say the uptake will be massive.

I would be interested to see what the attach rates are like for the two consoles. Just going by this forum, there are large numbers of people who own the PS3 for its BD functionality, and couldn't care less about the gaming aspect. I don't know how accurate a portrait that paints of the market as a whole - obviously an AV forum will have a higher concentration of people interested in high pic quality for their films.

The other aspect for me is I don't have an unlimited budget, and I also have limited time to play games. Taking these things into consideration, I don't really need any more consoles, since the 360 satisfies my gaming appetites. I know you think differently CAS, and you feel that a "proper" gamer should experience games on all consoles, but as I said, considering my own limited time and budget, one console does the job just fine. Having said that, and despite the fact that I have at least half a dozen unplayed 360 games under my tv, I can definitely see myself getting a PS3, just for the sake of having something new and shiny to play with...as long as the price is right!

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by kavanf1

The biggest issues for me with the PS3 were Sony's ridiculous RRP's, and their arrogance prior to launch where they basically told consumers "you will wait for this because it will be the best thing ever". I have no particular loyalty to any brand, so I picked up a 360 and have enjoyed some fantastic gaming. I can certainly see the value in owning a PS3 - gone are the days of saying there are no games for it, only a blu-ray player, etc - but for me the key thing that needs to happen is for its RRP to drop below £200. As soon as that happens I'd say the uptake will be massive.

I would be interested to see what the attach rates are like for the two consoles. Just going by this forum, there are large numbers of people who own the PS3 for its BD functionality, and couldn't care less about the gaming aspect. I don't know how accurate a portrait that paints of the market as a whole - obviously an AV forum will have a higher concentration of people interested in high pic quality for their films.

The other aspect for me is I don't have an unlimited budget, and I also have limited time to play games. Taking these things into consideration, I don't really need any more consoles, since the 360 satisfies my gaming appetites. I know you think differently CAS, and you feel that a "proper" gamer should experience games on all consoles, but as I said, considering my own limited time and budget, one console does the job just fine. Having said that, and despite the fact that I have at least half a dozen unplayed 360 games under my tv, I can definitely see myself getting a PS3, just for the sake of having something new and shiny to play with...as long as the price is right!

It's not about owning all 3 to be a proper gamer. I have a limited budget and my spare time is virtually non-existant these days. Owning two consoles instead of 1 isn't really much more expensive now. Both the Elite and the Slim can be had for around the £200 mark, which isn't really much money at all and can usually be scraped together by trading in old games that are no longer played.

Owning two (or three) consoles does not mean that you need twice the time either, that is a fallacy. All it means is you get a much wider selection to choose your games from. You can go for either GT or Forza, MGS or Spliner Cell, Killzone or Halo etc. etc. You don't have to buy more games, you just get more choice...which IMO is always a good thing.

You also get the best of both worlds in other respects. For your online needs you can use the superior Live service, for racers, flight sims etc. you can use the PS3 which offers a better range of compatible peripherals. You can also obviously use the PS3 for Blu Ray.

I agree that in the past the 360 has looked the more attractive option for gamers, but with them now priced around the same (excatly the same in the US) the better specced PS3 is looking a lot more attractive than before IMO.

I think the attach rates for the PS3 will have been poor early on, but now I feel that they will be pretty good. I myself owned just Motorstorm for the first few months of owning a PS3. I currently own around 35 full titles for the console, where my 360 catalogue is now down to around 10. Not saying that will be the same for everyone, but games wise the console is now much stronger.

[Sinzer]

I am not sure how much you own is a real indication of a proper gamer

I wonder if round 2 will be that interesting. I think the market will carry on trundling along, SONY may catch up, they may not.

It seems to me that the consoles are reaching their peak. I could be wrong, but I cannot see how many games can improve that much on what we have already seen from them.

I think the next couple of years will see some innovation in controllers and control methods, jumping on the Wii wagon, probably surpassing it with HD gaming combined with Wii like or Natal controls.

In the next couple of years, we will see some projected dates for the next console generation, which I believe will be at least 3-5 years off if not more.

I think PC gaming will also keep on trucking, the technology will increase at the same rate and it will carry on being the forerunner for graphics.

I see it being just like a cruiser weight fight, a couple of guys just slugging it out for 3 years, with no one really getting the upper hand.

[CAS FAN]

I wouldn't say there's such thing as a 'proper gamer' . We've all individuals and all spend differing amounts of time gaming.

I don't feel that we are nearing the peak that these consoles could produce, but then I don't think any piece of hardware is really pushed to the max these days. I remember the Speccy days where developers learned every trick in the book to squeeze more power from the little black device.

I'm not saying that they don't now, but with the constant technological advancement (driven really by PC technology) the rate of technology beats the rate that developers max it out. Really when you consider the advancements like them getting a superb version of Carrier Command or Stunt Car Racer on the speccy towards the end of it's life it would be like them producing something better than Crysis on the 360/PS3. If they hadn't actually done Carrier Command on the Speccy I just simply would have never believed that it was possible and would have just laughed if anyone even suggested it!

Regarding the next console gen, I don't see it being anywhere near as long as you suggest. The 360 came out at the end of 2005 and the PS3 at the end of 2006 (apart from here). This Christmas will see the 360 being 4 years old and the PS3 3 years. Sony generally bring out a console every 5 years and then run the old one for a further 5 years as a secondary console (they call it their 10 year cycle and have stated that they will be sticking to that). I feel that the next gen consoles will start to be released towards the end of 2011 (just over 2 years). I would then guess that all of the next gen consoles will be released (at least in some territories) by the end of 2012. More 2-3 years as opposed to 3-5 IMO.

As previously stated, I do agree that we will see further advancements in controller design with Natal etc. I also see on demand services increasing in momentum with 1080p on demand films etc. MS are already offering their games for download and I see Sony following suit here as they have tested the water with some big releases of late (Wipeout HD most notably as that was DL only, but also games like GT5p).

Competition is massive now and I do like your analogy of two cruiser weights slogging it out and I do see this gen ending with Sony & MS neck and neck, maybe needing a points decision to separate them!

[Bursar]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

I would then guess that all of the next gen consoles will be released (at least in some territories) by the end of 2012. More 2-3 years as opposed to 3-5 IMO.

For the next gen to take off, they are absolutely going to have to do something about BC. I've spent a small fortune on DLC, and on downloadable titles. Being forced to throw all of those away because they won't run on the Xbox 720 or PS4 will not make me a happy camper!

I skipped the whole Xbox/PS2 generation, and I only bought a PS1 for Tekken 3, but now that I'm into console gaming properly, I really don't want to have to start keeping all my consoles lying around, just incase I fancy playing an older game.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Bursar

For the next gen to take off, they are absolutely going to have to do something about BC. I've spent a small fortune on DLC, and on downloadable titles. Being forced to throw all of those away because they won't run on the Xbox 720 or PS4 will not make me a happy camper!

I skipped the whole Xbox/PS2 generation, and I only bought a PS1 for Tekken 3, but now that I'm into console gaming properly, I really don't want to have to start keeping all my consoles lying around, just incase I fancy playing an older game.

Agreed, BC is vital really and it is something i'll miss when I get rid of my 60gb for a slim. Whilst i'm generally not bothered about playing all of my old games, some games you just want to keep because they are that good.

The whole aspect of DLC makes BC even more vital as people can't trade or sell on DLC when they change console.

Every console produced from now on must play previous DLC so that a PSN or Live user can download and play any previous game they have bought.

[Haggler]

Xbox 360
The DLC thing is an issue and the fact that you have paid for something that is worthless when a new machine arrives is pretty crap to be honest, at least buying a disk would net you some kind of rebate on your purchase, although personally i don't really use it.

Microsoft need to sort out their overheating problems, the machine is fantastic but they are haemorrhaging money in after sales returns (luckily they can afford it) but this was poor design in the first place, i'm sure they will sort the issue and knock out a cracking machine next time too.

Ps3
I still don't own one, fair enough the games have improved and the price is tumbling, for me i only need one next gen console (i have a 360) and my current state of mind (see below) dictates i'd be an idiot to buy one of these now, i'm sure i'd get more use out of the film side of the machine as sony has won the hd war and blu-ray does appeal to me, however until the films themselves sell at retail for the same price as a standard dvd around £10 - £12 i won't be persuaded to flick over.

Sony need to get more third party support and try to drive down the price of blu-ray disks if it's something they are planning on sticking with.

Wii
Doesn't really compete with the other 2 in terms of gfx but hey it's doing so well, it is the only console that gets regular use and not by me, however there is something mystifying in watching the fairer sex bobbling up and down swinging their arms about while playing raving rabbids tv party and taking the pee out of it.

Nintendo need to do nothing but watch as they must be raking it in with the wii, i wouldn't be surprised if their next gen machine is actually worse graphically than the wii but comes with some headgear gimmick or something.

Me
Probably i am the wrong person to talk lately though as i used to spend hours of my spare time playing games definitely to access in the 80's, 90's and until a couple of years ago, nowadays i don't really use my consoles at all and i'm worried i must have reached that point of no return as it's been 12 months now with only the odd title getting an hour or so bash.

[GMC79]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

Agreed, BC is vital really and it is something i'll miss when I get rid of my 60gb for a slim. Whilst i'm generally not bothered about playing all of my old games, some games you just want to keep because they are that good.

Yeah couldnt handle not playing GT2/4, pool hustler (ps1) etc etc...
They really should have added BC back in for the slim, Another reason to not bother with it, really dont know what they were thinking when they ditched it anyway must have been drunk at the the meeting as they were when they designed the triggers that's why i jumped in and grabbed a 60gb for GT5 and the BC before it dissapeared, Earlier than i wanted but had to.

[Jay]

There seems to be quite a few people that think the next playstaion will be out in about 5ish years and refer to the 10 year cycle.

I say this so many times but the ten year cycle refers to how long they'll support the console for, not how long until they bring one out.

We'll start hearing about ms's new console next year and I reckon it'll be released late 2011 with the next playstation in 2012.

I'd say that Nintendo are the msot likely to wait a long time before releasing a new console, I mean why would they want to, their focus isn't on the latest technology and I can see them just milking every last drop out of the wii with even more acessories.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Haggler

Ps3
I still don't own one, fair enough the games have improved and the price is tumbling, for me i only need one next gen console (i have a 360) and my current state of mind (see below) dictates i'd be an idiot to buy one of these now, i'm sure i'd get more use out of the film side of the machine as sony has won the hd war and blu-ray does appeal to me, however until the films themselves sell at retail for the same price as a standard dvd around £10 - £12 i won't be persuaded to flick over.

Sony need to get more third party support and try to drive down the price of blu-ray disks if it's something they are planning on sticking with.

Sony have full support from 3rd party developers as far as I can see (unless i've missed something?).

The price of Blu Ray discs is dropping and i've not paid more than £10 in a long time (infact I think only a couple of my 50+ discs cost more than a tenner). Even not soon after launch they can be had for a good price (I bought Monsters Inc. a week or two after launch for less than £12).

This will only continue to improve as more and more people buy into the format. With the good uptake in HD screens, good quality players available now for around £150 and the PS3 slim available for just over £200 I can see Blu Ray sales improving considerably over the next year or so.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Indecisive Jay

There seems to be quite a few people that think the next playstaion will be out in about 5ish years and refer to the 10 year cycle.

I say this so many times but the ten year cycle refers to how long they'll support the console for, not how long until they bring one out.

We'll start hearing about ms's new console next year and I reckon it'll be released late 2011 with the next playstation in 2012.

Indeed, that was exactly my view as well...

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

Sony generally bring out a console every 5 years and then run the old one for a further 5 years as a secondary console (they call it their 10 year cycle and have stated that they will be sticking to that). I feel that the next gen consoles will start to be released towards the end of 2011 (just over 2 years). I would then guess that all of the next gen consoles will be released (at least in some territories) by the end of 2012. More 2-3 years as opposed to 3-5 IMO.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

Indeed, that was exactly my view as well...

I can't wait til the next batch of consoles arrives.

I'm looking forward to what ms have in store, I really think it'll be something special.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Indecisive Jay

I can't wait til the next batch of consoles arrives.

I'm looking forward to what ms have in store, I really think it'll be something special.

Agreed, new console launches are exciting times and like you i'm looking forward to seeing what the next gen brings.

Like you say, we should start to hear rumours in a year or so time as I feel we'll see the first next gen console at the end of 2011 (with the consoles officially announced at E3 2011).

[Jay]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

Agreed, new console launches are exciting times and like you i'm looking forward to seeing what the next gen brings.

Like you say, we should start to hear rumours in a year or so time as I feel we'll see the first next gen console at the end of 2011 (with the consoles officially announced at E3 2011).

I'm probably alone but I wish new consoles came out more often.

Razor will probably come and tell me new consoles are released often, they're called pcs, and they can be changed every week

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Indecisive Jay

I'm probably alone but I wish new consoles came out more often.

Razor will probably come and tell me new consoles are released often, they're called pcs, and they can be changed every week

Na mate, i'd love to see a new console generation every couple of years but it wouldn't work for the mass market as they never really buy into it until it's been out a year or two and the price drops.

Razor is right, PC's are definately the option to go for if you want to chase the tech!

[Jay]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

Na mate, i'd love to see a new console generation every couple of years but it wouldn't work for the mass market as they never really buy into it until it's been out a year or two and the price drops.

Razor is right, PC's are definately the option to go for if you want to chase the tech!

Yeah absolutely.

I wonder if the line between pcs and consoles will get even slimmer and they'll all be the same thing.

alot of people do like the appeal of having one box that does it all and having the option of upgrading is always better than not having so who knows, we might even have upgrades on consoles so people can have better framerates if they desire....

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Indecisive Jay

Yeah absolutely.

I wonder if the line between pcs and consoles will get even slimmer and they'll all be the same thing.

alot of people do like the appeal of having one box that does it all and having the option of upgrading is always better than not having so who knows, we might even have upgrades on consoles so people can have better framerates if they desire....

[Sinzer]

There seems to be quite a few people that think the next playstaion will be out in about 5ish years and refer to the 10 year cycle.

I say this so many times but the ten year cycle refers to how long they'll support the console for, not how long until they bring one out.

We'll start hearing about ms's new console next year and I reckon it'll be released late 2011 with the next playstation in 2012.

I am not referring to the 10 year cycle, I am referring to the dismal (in comparison) performance of both "hardcore" next gen machines. When I say that, I am also referring to the fact that they make significantly less profit this gen than they did last gen. Both divisions have only just broke even according to their figures or recently started making profits.

Given the amount of expense it takes to develop a next gen console, I can easily see this round being lengthened. They don't have the profit margins to warrant the whole development cycle yet.

Here is an interesting article that I agree with.

PS4 and Xbox 720: why we're in for a long wait | News | TechRadar UK

Here is also another excellent reason :

Half of Next-Gen Console Owners Are Playing on Standard-Def TVs - HDTV - Gizmodo

To summarise :

* Poor economic conditions.
* Most successful games in the marketplace are essentially low graphic content.
* Significant investment already in controller methods.
* Low uptake of complementary technology like HD.

Those are good enough reasons why there will likely be a wait for the next gen.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Sinzer

I am not referring to the 10 year cycle, I am referring to the dismal (in comparison) performance of both "hardcore" next gen machines. When I say that, I am also referring to the fact that they make significantly less profit this gen than they did last gen. Both divisions have only just broke even according to their figures or recently started making profits.

Given the amount of expense it takes to develop a next gen console, I can easily see this round being lengthened. They don't have the profit margins to warrant the whole development cycle yet.

Here is an interesting article that I agree with.

PS4 and Xbox 720: why we're in for a long wait | News | TechRadar UK

Here is also another excellent reason :

Half of Next-Gen Console Owners Are Playing on Standard-Def TVs - HDTV - Gizmodo

To summarise :

* Poor economic conditions.
* Most successful games in the marketplace are essentially low graphic content.
* Significant investment already in controller methods.
* Low uptake of complementary technology like HD.

Those are good enough reasons why there will likely be a wait for the next gen.

Yeah it's all possible, I guess we'll have to wait and see. What it does mean is that the PC becomes increasingly attractive for those who want to continue seeing a visual improvement (in a technical sense) to their games.

[Rasczak]

How do people see the 'next gen' controllers influencing the console/games market? Surprisingly Microsoft and Sony seem to have gone down different avenues here.

Microsoft's Natal is the most puzzling to me. It sounds impressive technology in that it can map the body - but other than sports, family or fighting games I can't see it being that great for your typical action/shooter - which is quite surprising as that is mainstay of the 360 content.

Sony's magic wand (forgive me if it has a different name) seems to have more application for FPS games and other action centric titles.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Rasczak

How do people see the 'next gen' controllers influencing the console/games market? Surprisingly Microsoft and Sony seem to have gone down different avenues here.

Microsoft's Natal is the most puzzling to me. It sounds impressive technology in that it can map the body - but other than sports, family or fighting games I can't see it being that great for your typical action/shooter - which is quite surprising as that is mainstay of the 360 content.

Sony's magic wand (forgive me if it has a different name) seems to have more application for FPS games and other action centric titles.

I thought that the whole Natal thing seemed very impressive and I feel that motion control could add a lot to games. I guess that whilst the 360 & PS3 are now lagging a way behind the PC power wise, a combination of a good motion controller with reasonable HD visuals would be great.

I've been impressed with the Wii motion plus add on as it's very accurate indeed at mapping movement. It's just a shame that the visuals are so poor on it! Have had a lot of fun playing Wii Sports Resort though and my son (who is nearly 3) absolutely loves the sword fighting games on it.

That said, he also loves playing il-2 bird of prey on the PS3 with the thrustmaster hotas-x flight stick! I think I must have seen every way possible to crash on that game now .

[Razor]

Originally Posted by Sinzer

It seems to me that the consoles are reaching their peak. I could be wrong, but I cannot see how many games can improve that much on what we have already seen from them.

I think the next couple of years will see some innovation in controllers and control methods, jumping on the Wii wagon, probably surpassing it with HD gaming combined with Wii like or Natal controls.

I totally agree mate. Thats why all console games look the same as there are no new textures or lighting techniques as the gpu is fixed and old now. They are also stuck at a stupidly low res and frame rate with no AA. This wont improve due to coding. They know what can be squeezed out of these gpus as game devs have been using them for years on the pc and they reached the ceiling limit in terms of visuals and graphical effects.

Back in the days of the spectrum and c64 it was more software driven, these days its allot more hardware driven. GPU tech is what makes a game look a certain way and if the hardware cant do it then you are limited. Optimising the code wont give you new graphical effects. The best you can hope for is more things on the screen without lowering the res too much or having too bigger frame rate hit. Console games will look the same until a new gen is brought out.

I also agree that consoles will just use a side ways step and go with new control methods as they cant go any where else. If a wii can come out looking like Teletext and sell by the bucket load then console companies have to look at this and replicate it in some way.

They will also bring out the revised versions like the PS3 slim and elite. Whoop whoop a smaller box, how many people rebuy just because it has a new hdmi socket on the back or the console is smaller. To me its just totally stupid. Rebuy when they give us something new and far advanced over what you had before. I cant understand why people get excited about things like this. I remember the threads on the Elite when it came out and now the PS3 slim. When pc hardware gets rehashed and brought back out the company gets slated and hated. Nvidia did this with the 8800gts which was renamed the 9800gtx then renamed 250gtx. Everyone hated them for doing this. But not in console land fanboys seem to love being resold the same **** but in a different package. I really dont know why either. The only thing I can think of is that they are bored of their current console and really want more out of what they have.

Originally Posted by Indecisive Jay

I'm probably alone but I wish new consoles came out more often.

Razor will probably come and tell me new consoles are released often, they're called pcs, and they can be changed every week

I would also love a new console. I am totally bored of all of mine and they do kinda wind me up these days. I dont really enjoy playing on them at all. Its just too much of a backwards step for me. Its like watching a dvix cam instead of a Bluray movie.

You know me well mate. I do see pc's as next gen consoles. After all consoles are just cut down versions of old pcs with a front end ie GUI.

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

Na mate, i'd love to see a new console generation every couple of years but it wouldn't work for the mass market as they never really buy into it until it's been out a year or two and the price drops.

Razor is right, PC's are definitely the option to go for if you want to chase the tech!

Agreed mate. I love a new console launch and all the hype that surrounds it. I just wish the tight buggers wouldn't leave it so long. I think they should either find a way of swapping out the gpu or release a new console which is totally backwards compatible every 3 years. I have been saying this for years but I doubt it will ever happen.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Razor

I totally agree mate. Thats why all console games look the same as there are no new textures or lighting techniques as the gpu is fixed and old now. They are also stuck at a stupidly low res and frame rate with no AA. This wont improve due to coding. They know what can be squeezed out of these gpus as game devs have been using them for years on the pc and they reached the ceiling limit in terms of visuals and graphical effects.

Back in the days of the spectrum and c64 it was more software driven, these days its allot more hardware driven. GPU tech is what makes a game look a certain way and if the hardware cant do it then you are limited. Optimising the code wont give you new graphical effects. The best you can hope for is more things on the screen without lowering the res too much or having too bigger frame rate hit. Console games will look the same until a new gen is brought out.

I'm not sure really, games like KZ2, Uncharted 2 etc. look way better than earlier PS3 games and the way I see it is that the PS3 especially is continuing to improve in terms of the quality we are getting. Even with the 360 (which has been out longer) we're still seeing improvements in terms of games like Forza 3, Alan Wake etc. Developers will always strive to learn new programming techniques to get the most from hardware. If that wasn't the case then we wouldn't see the vast improvements in the quality of visuals that we have this generation.

Originally Posted by Razor

They will also bring out the revised versions like the PS3 slim and elite. Whoop whoop a smaller box, how many people rebuy just because it has a new hdmi socket on the back or the console is smaller. To me its just totally stupid. Rebuy when they give us something new and far advanced over what you had before. I cant understand why people get excited about things like this. I remember the threads on the Elite when it came out and now the PS3 slim. When pc hardware gets rehashed and brought back out the company gets slated and hated. Nvidia did this with the 8800gts which was renamed the 9800gtx then renamed 250gtx. Everyone hated them for doing this. But not in console land fanboys seem to love being resold the same **** but in a different package. I really dont know why either. The only thing I can think of is that they are bored of their current console and really want more out of what they have.

I struggle to see why existing owners get excited by new console versions (slim's etc.) but they are a good trade in option for those wanting to get a new warranty etc. With all the YLoD stories regarding the older PS3s, that was my reason.

Originally Posted by Razor

Agreed mate. I love a new console launch and all the hype that surrounds it. I just wish the tight buggers wouldn't leave it so long. I think they should either find a way of swapping out the gpu or release a new console which is totally backwards compatible every 3 years. I have been saying this for years but I doubt it will ever happen.

I guess that if this happens they essentially become like a PC, but no doubt with a premium to pay for the upgrades. Console add ons and upgrades also have a history of failure to be honest.

Also, those who haven't grown up with PC's will probably find changing GPU's, CPU's, Memory etc. in a console fairly daunting. It's straightforward for us, but we've grown up building and upgrading PC's. I guess that folk who grow up messing about with cars also find modding, servicing and upgrading them a doddle, where as i'd have to do a lot of research before I started messing about with them.

I know that PC's are more straightforward and are generally plug and play, but I know many folk who just wouldn't know where to start with upgrading them. I can't see how they could make console upgrades much simpler either as if you start putting the GPU unit, CPU unit etc. into convenient modual boxes that just clip together then you add in extra casing around the products which increases the heat etc.

You also have to consider that the majority of folk who buy consoles wouldn't know what AA etc. is and probably play them in SD connected by what ever wire comes in the box . As long as they can turn it on and play FIFA against their mates they are happy enough.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

I'm not sure really, games like KZ2, Uncharted 2 etc. look way better than earlier PS3 games and the way I see it is that the PS3 especially is continuing to improve in terms of the quality we are getting. Even with the 360 (which has been out longer) we're still seeing improvements in terms of games like Forza 3, Alan Wake etc. Developers will always strive to learn new programming techniques to get the most from hardware. If that wasn't the case then we wouldn't see the vast improvements in the quality of visuals that we have this generation.

Yes they do look better and this is too be expected as the devs get used to the machine. Also the gpu wasnt that old when the 360 was released. However I do think the peak has been reached with console tech. We wont start seeing 1080p 60 frames and games like crysis on that old tech. Nor will we see shader model 4.0 or other nice lighting, rendering effects or more aggressive AA. Basically all that will happen is the devs might be able to squeeze some more units on the screen. Pretty games will still be 720p or less and 30fps with average looking graphics and minimal lighting and rendering effects.

If the hardware cant do it then the devs are stuck, optimising can only go so far.

Its a bit like trying to get Ferrari performance out of a Vauxhall nova 1.1L. Sure you can get a few extra horse power by tuning the engine, using different fuel and filters but you will still be stuck with a 1.1L engine and a Vauxhall Nova.

If the devs had a different more modern and powerful gpu to play with allot more options will be open to them and this will change the look of a game dramatically. The end result is a totally different looking animal and one that cant be achieved by optimisation of old less powerful and restricted tech.

KZ2 is still a long way off decent pc games in terms of visuals. Especially as it isnt even 1080p @ 60Hz with no AA. KZ2 is decidedly average in terms of visuals for a pc.

I struggle to see why existing owners get excited by new console versions (slim's etc.) but they are a good trade in option for those wanting to get a new warranty etc. With all the YLoD stories regarding the older PS3s, that was my reason.

Me too. I cant understand it either. To me its a bit like buying the same movie twice because its in a smaller or different box.

I guess that if this happens they essentially become like a PC, but no doubt with a premium to pay for the upgrades. Console add ons and upgrades also have a history of failure to be honest.

Also, those who haven't grown up with PC's will probably find changing GPU's, CPU's, Memory etc. in a console fairly daunting. It's straightforward for us, but we've grown up building and upgrading PC's. I guess that folk who grow up messing about with cars also find modding, servicing and upgrading them a doddle, where as i'd have to do a lot of research before I started messing about with them.

I know that PC's are more straightforward and are generally plug and play, but I know many folk who just wouldn't know where to start with upgrading them. I can't see how they could make console upgrades much simpler either as if you start putting the GPU unit, CPU unit etc. into convenient modual boxes that just clip together then you add in extra casing around the products which increases the heat etc.

I was thinking more along the line of swappable cartridge or module as you say which housed a gpu which could be easily swapped by the user. A bit like the N64 memory pack. An upgrade which didnt involve opening the console and messing with the insides. This I feel would be a great way to go. If allot of users go crazy for a hdmi port or a slimmer version how many would also go crazy for upgraded graphics or a faster slicker machine? if they wanted to keep costs down they could even reuse the same gpu but have it running in sli or crossfire. This will boost the frames by allot and keep costs down and keep their console more current for longer.

As you say the pass add-ons have flopped but thats because they didnt add extra eye candy and they were really expensive.

You also have to consider that the majority of folk who buy consoles wouldn't know what AA etc. is and probably play them in SD connected by what ever wire comes in the box . As long as they can turn it on and play FIFA against their mates they are happy enough.

Philistines.

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Razor

I was thinking more along the line of swappable cartridge or module as you say which housed a gpu which could be easily swapped by the user. A bit like the N64 memory pack. An upgrade which didnt involve opening the console and messing with the insides. This I feel would be a great way to go. If allot of users go crazy for a hdmi port or a slimmer version how many would also go crazy for upgraded graphics or a faster slicker machine? if they wanted to keep costs down they could even reuse the same gpu but have it running in sli or crossfire. This will boost the frames by allot and keep costs down and keep their console more current for longer.

Like I say though, when you encase things in neat little modules you get a problem with heat! It's hard enough to keep the noise and heat down in PC's as it is without encasing the GPU, CPU, Memory etc. in extra casing.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by CAS FAN

Like I say though, when you encase things in neat little modules you get a problem with heat! It's hard enough to keep the noise and heat down in PC's as it is without encasing the GPU, CPU, Memory etc. in extra casing.

Not really true most gpus are encased in plastic with big fat heatsinks and a fan in them.

I am sure they could rig something up smaller which would work well. A bit like a dual gpu card but with only one gpu on the console and a slot where you could add another gpu at a later date or a totally removable gpu. All you would need is the heatsink and gpu in a plastic module and the fan could be stationary in the console case.

I reckon it could easily be done.

[CAS FAN]

Yeah maybe....if only someone would invent a gaming platform that you could upgrade with better graphics cards, memory and processors.

We could then build our own systems to the spec we require and developers could produce games that we could scale to the spec we had.

In all serious, I know what you mean and often wish that I could improve my consoles, but in reality the line between console and PC would just become too blurred.

Folk like the fact that they can buy a standard console which to all intents an purposes is the same as every other console of that type. They like the fact that they just turn it on and stick in a game and that all games released for it will just work.

I feel that there is a market for the PC and also for the standardised games console and those markets have worked pretty well since the 80's. I'm not sure if you can get gaming nirvana by aiming to get the best of both worlds and feel that when you try that you generally compromise the benefits of both methods (PC & Console).

Console for standardised plug & play and PC for customisability and high end gaming.

[BYF]

Well I've had a PS3 from launch, and the only game I've played worthy of it's purchase is MGS4, all cross platform games I've bought or rented have been on 360 as I prefer the pad and they usually run better with more AA. Plus I cannot be bothered with the PC for cross platform games usually as they require more setting up and tweaking, and are still not plug and play enough, and I can rent console games for very little.

My 360 has had a hell of a lot more use for games, but has been in repair four times at my expense despite being serious hardware failures but no RROD, so no free repair.

The only game I've played on my PS3 in ages despite it's faults is PES2009 with my bro as we prefer the PS3 pad for ISS/Pro.

My PS3 has mainly been a £425 upscaling DVD player and a a bluray player a few times and I know it can do other things, but what other things can it really do? Serious question as I'd like to get more out of it.

The fact is there's not been enough top exclusive games for PS3, I can count on less than one hand how many have averaged 90% or above. I could say the same about PC gaming as well having returned to it, other than Crysis and the driving sims there's nothing else I want to play at the moment.

[Rasczak]

Originally Posted by BYF

The fact is there's not been enough top exclusive games for PS3, I can count on less than one hand how many have averaged 90% or above. I could say the same about PC gaming as well having returned to it, other than Crysis and the driving sims there's nothing else I want to play at the moment.

For the PS3 have you tried the Resistance games? Both are good, old school FPS. Also how about Infamous?

For the PC how about the S.T.A.L.K.E.R series? Or, if your after non-Xbox gaming types, how about Company of Heroes?