[Haggler]

This is not what it actually means but What the term "sandbox" game or mode means to you?

Maybe try giving a few examples of sandbox games and/or modes and why you consider them to be what they are.

[buster_broon]

for me it means a game you can do whatever you want within a specific confines or area in no order to progress further

like GTA4

you can do a couple of missions then you can just be friends, race or do any of the sub elements

taking stuff from the GTA thread, i woldn't class burnout as a sandbox game because you pick a race and away you go, whereas a game like need for speed or test drive unlimited could be because you can really do what you want, while you roam the vast areas

[Tigerblade]

Originally Posted by buster_broon

for me it means a game you can do whatever you want within a specific confines or area in no order to progress further

like GTA4

you can do a couple of missions then you can just be friends, race or do any of the sub elements

taking stuff from the GTA thread, i woldn't class burnout as a sandbox game because you pick a race and away you go, whereas a game like need for speed or test drive unlimited could be because you can really do what you want, while you roam the vast areas

And you can't roam Burnout's vast areas and do what you want? Your opening line (which I completely agree with) is describing Burnout Paradise to a tee.

Sandbox, to me, can be any genre and basically is a description of a game in which you can do what you want, when you want in a normally pretty big open world that has very little in the way of constrictions. Progressing by pretty much picking and choosing missions/levels/tasks as and when. You can still play the game tho by ignoring the missions/levels/tasks tho.

GTA, BP, AC, FC2, Saints Row, Infamous all being prime examples. EA market Battlefield as sandbox too.

[buster_broon]

Originally Posted by Tigerblade

And you can't roam Burnout's vast areas and do what you want? Your opening line (which I completely agree with) is describing Burnout Paradise to a tee.

never played paradise, thats why i mentioned burnout rather than burnout paradise

its all in the reading

if i had said the burnout franchise then i guess i might have gotten it wrong

the last one i played was takedown and all you do in that is pick a race and race it

[Tigerblade]

Originally Posted by buster_broon

never played paradise, thats why i mentioned burnout rather than burnout paradise

its all in the reading

if i had said the burnout franchise then i guess i might have gotten it wrong

the last one i played was takedown and all you do in that is pick a race and race it

That would explain it then Altho you referencing Burnout in the other thread was Paradise.

Paradise is massive, think GTA but cars/bikes only, from mountain ranges, to beaches.....massive jumps etc You can race, stunt, marked man, showtime, takedowns....perform tasks with other racers or just mess about and drive where you want.

As a core game it is nothing like the restricted previous incarnations and even if going full whack from the Observatory in the mountain range to the far tip of the beach on Big Surf Island is gonna take some time.

I sound like a salesman! Awesome game tho.

[cas398]

Originally Posted by buster_broon

for me it means a game you can do whatever you want within a specific confines or area in no order to progress further

like GTA4

you can do a couple of missions then you can just be friends, race or do any of the sub elements

taking stuff from the GTA thread, i woldn't class burnout as a sandbox game because you pick a race and away you go, whereas a game like need for speed or test drive unlimited could be because you can really do what you want, while you roam the vast areas

The things is you can't do "whatever you want" in Paradise or NFS, it's pretty much limited to racing. You can go wherever you want, which by the looks of it is what the term sandbox means to most people.

Where as GTA offers a lot more freedom, and varied gameplay.

[buster_broon]

Originally Posted by cas398

The things is you can't do "whatever you want" in Paradise or NFS, it's pretty much limited to racing. You can go wherever you want, which by the looks of it is what the term sandbox means to most people.

Where as GTA offers a lot more freedom, and varied gameplay.

but you can't really do what you want in GTA from the get-go

you have to earn the right to get to specific points, if you decided that you weren't going to do any missions in GTA you wouldnt get off the 1st island

same with the games you mentioned

[cas398]

Originally Posted by buster_broon

but you can't really do what you want in GTA from the get-go

you have to earn the right to get to specific points, if you decided that you weren't going to do any missions in GTA you wouldnt get off the 1st island

same with the games you mentioned

So

That's gaming for you, it has it's draw backs.

So your point isn't in any way valid.

Plus that's only a couple of GTA's, Just Cause for and Crackdown for example are whole from the start so you're just nit-picking.
What if you didn't do any missions in Paradise, what would you do?

[Tigerblade]

Originally Posted by cas398

What if you didn't do any missions in Paradise, what would you do?

You still have the entire map to explore/free roam, jumps, takedowns, showtimes, road rules and challenges....all of which you can do online or offline. The only thing you unlock via missions are bigger/better cars.

The missions, whilst are quite a large part of the game, are totally optional.

By the sounds of it you've never played it. There is a demo on PSN (I guess the same with Live if you have a 360), you should check it out.

[cas398]

Originally Posted by Tigerblade

You still have the entire map to explore/free roam, jumps, takedowns, showtimes, road rules and challenges....all of which you can do online or offline. The only thing you unlock via missions are bigger/better cars.

The missions, whilst are quite a large part of the game, are totally optional.

By the sounds of it you've never played it. There is a demo on PSN (I guess the same with Live if you have a 360), you should check it out.

And what is all of that? RACING.

I played the Paradise demo when it first come out.

If you can't see the difference between GTA and Paradise you must be blind.

[buster_broon]

Originally Posted by cas398

So your point isn't in any way valid.

again for the cheap seats i've never played paradise

as for my comment of course its valid, maybe not to a self opinionated t**t

are you sure you're a celtic man, seems like your acting like a rangers man

last comment from me tbh as its hard to talk to a brick wall when he is the 1% and everybody else is the 99%

[cas398]

Originally Posted by buster_broon

again for the cheap seats i've never played paradise

as for my comment of course its valid, maybe not to a self opinionated t**t

are you sure you're a celtic man, seems like your acting like a rangers man

last comment from me tbh as its hard to talk to a brick wall when he is the 1% and everybody else is the 99%

I didn't even say that to you, so your insults were hardly necessary

Pointless arguing as usual I see, I should have known better to post in a threadf with the same people

[Tigerblade]

Originally Posted by cas398

And what is all of that? RACING.

I played the Paradise demo when it first come out.

If you can't see the difference between GTA and Paradise you must be blind.

Dear god are you actually for real? Just because you play a game with vehicles does not mean it is predominantly racing Are you always racing in GTA? If you drive do you try to beat every other car out there to some fictitious line? No didn't think so.

Racing is when there are 2 or more cars trying to pass the finish line first. Agree? So do stunts, jumps, challenges, takedowns and showtimes sound like racing to you? They do not fit in your pigeon hole....unless you think racing means something different to us all too?

Even my 4 year old daughter can see the reasoning behind all this....surely a grown man can? She likes to play Paradise to 'drive around and mess about' but no, she obviously cannot do that as it's just a racing game, a linear un-sandbox one at that

[Sinzer]

That's gaming for you, it has it's draw backs.

So your point isn't in any way valid.

Sandbox (in gaming) means to play a game where the constraints of missions have been lifted or can be ignored. That is the general accepted definition of it, just accept it as well.

Of course, there is a difference between Burnout Paradise and GTA, but they both have sandbox environments, so you cannot say one is a sandbox and the other is not, they BOTH have the same characteristics as far as the word sandbox goes.

Burnout is a sandbox game with cars and driving.

GTA is a sandbox game with cars, driving and shooting.

I could not say Burnout is a sandbox game with shooting.

Please go and study venn diagrams, because I think you are having a really hard time grasping how grouping and logic works.

Not to be funny, but you could take your argument and use it to say that someone isn't human because they have a large nose and large nose people don't count as human. Only small nose can be humans, even though they both have a nose it is just different.

[cas398]

Originally Posted by Tigerblade

Dear god are you actually for real? Just because you play a game with vehicles does not mean it is predominantly racing Are you always racing in GTA? If you drive do you try to beat every other car out there to some fictitious line? No didn't think so.

Racing is when there are 2 or more cars trying to pass the finish line first. Agree? So do stunts, jumps, challenges, takedowns and showtimes sound like racing to you? They do not fit in your pigeon hole....unless you think racing means something different to us all too?

Even my 4 year old daughter can see the reasoning behind all this....surely a grown man can? She likes to play Paradise to 'drive around and mess about' but no, she obviously cannot do that as it's just a racing game, a linear un-sandbox one at that

Ok, let me rephrase that. DRIVING.

Whether you race or not is besides the point, it's a driving game and that's all you do.

I guess you couldn't work that out for yourself.

So yes, it is just a driving game.

I'm sure your daughter could have figured that out, she must be years ahead of you already

[cas398]

Originally Posted by Sinzer

Of course, there is a difference between Burnout Paradise and GTA, but they both have sandbox environments, so you cannot say one is a sandbox and the other is not, they BOTH have the same characteristics as far as the word sandbox goes.

I'm glad you finally admit it, and posting 10 year old pictures from the internet isn't very funny or original, just proves how pointless you are.

"They both have the same characteristics". No, they both have one identical characteristic, which is the sandbox world they are based in. How the game lets' you interact with that environement is COMPLETELY different.

Anyone with a pair of eyes and a little common sense can see that, but seemingly you guys can't

God you guys are stupid.

[Sinzer]

No, they both have one identical characteristic, which is the sandbox world they are based in. How the game lets' you interact with that environement is COMPLETELY different.

You have just shown how pointless your argument is. Your above sentance completely breaks your argument, they share the same characteristic sandbox..... therefore (logic) they can both be sandbox games. How they interact is not in the argument, the argument is can they both be sandbox, yes they both can, they both have sandbox gameplay.

Sorry, mate but you cannot go around in circles, I am giving up now, because the argument is pretty much over. For someone who is always claiming about being insulted, you have done the most insulting in all these threads. I am surprised you haven´t picked up a mod yet.

[cas398]

Originally Posted by Sinzer

You have just shown how pointless your argument is. Your above sentance completely breaks your argument, they share the same characteristic sandbox..... therefore (logic) they can both be sandbox games. How they interact is not in the argument, the argument is can they both be sandbox, yes they both can, they both have sandbox gameplay.

Sorry, mate but you cannot go around in circles, I am giving up now, because the argument is pretty much over. For someone who is always claiming about being insulted, you have done the most insulting in all these threads. I am surprised you haven´t picked up a mod yet.

You don't have to appologise every time you think you are right, I get the picture.

You've hit the nail on the head, which is the point you refuse to comprehend. "They both have sandbox gameplay". Yes they do, now why don't you ask yourself what other forms of gameplay each game offers.

Just because a game has something outside it's specific genre does not mean it change it's purpose. Like I said Fallout 3 is an RPG becuase it has that specific gameplay, Paradise is a driving/racing game becuase it has that gameplay. GTA is a sandbox game becasue it has everything

If you can't understand that put in such a simple way there's no hope.

[Noggleboggleman]

How did this thread turn into an argument?!

Anyway. to me a sandbox game is one where you can anywhere on the map to do things and in any order you like:

Oblivion,
Fallout 3
GTA
etc

I wouldn't class something like Fable 2 as sandbox though as it is more of lots of small areas put together and you can only access them fomr certain points.

[Tigerblade]

Originally Posted by cas398

Ok, let me rephrase that. DRIVING.

Whether you race or not is besides the point, it's a driving game and that's all you do.

I guess you couldn't work that out for yourself.

So yes, it is just a driving game.

I'm sure your daughter could have figured that out, she must be years ahead of you already

Ahhh now your changing what your saying to make it fit

It's been said by many already, it doesn't matter what you do in a game as sandbox isn't a genre...it's a term to describe the nature of the games structure so therefore can be any genre. FACT.

I really, truly and utterly cannot fathom how and why you can't grasp that.

The way I see it is your having problems pigeon holing GTA into a genre so have decided that sandbox is one, wrongly, GTA is just a free roaming third person action game with vehicles set in a sandbox environment....plain and simple.

I'm out, someone else can bang their head against this brick wall

[cas398]

Originally Posted by Noggleboggleman

How did this thread turn into an argument?!

Anyway. to me a sandbox game is one where you can anywhere on the map to do things and in any order you like:

Oblivion,
Fallout 3
GTA
etc

I wouldn't class something like Fable 2 as sandbox though as it is more of lots of small areas put together and you can only access them fomr certain points.

YOu could say the same about GTAIII though, loading screens between each area which were accessible only at certain points. That is the reason I believe classing them all as sandbox is very confusing.

Originally Posted by Tigerblade

Ahhh now your changing what your saying to make it fit

It's been said by many already, it doesn't matter what you do in a game as sandbox isn't a genre...it's a term to describe the nature of the games structure so therefore can be any genre. FACT.

I really, truly and utterly cannot fathom how and why you can't grasp that.

The way I see it is your having problems pigeon holing GTA into a genre so have decided that sandbox is one, wrongly, GTA is just a free roaming third person action game with vehicles set in a sandbox environment....plain and simple.

I'm out, someone else can bang their head against this brick wall

I've been saying the exact same thing from the go, I'm just trying to put it into kids terms for you to understand.

You just proved how stupid your arguement sounds by stating "it's a term to describe the nature of the games structure so therefore can be any genre."

That's exactly what it is, a term to describe the nature of the games structure. That is very hard to do with traditional or proper sandbox games which you just proved So the term should not be used to class games togther which already have a specific genre.

It's used to describe the games structure and that's all it should be used for. Paradise is a free-roaming/sandbox Driving game. GTA is a proper SANDBOX game.

The emboldened scentence is one of the most amusing (and long) descriptions of a genre I have ever heard for a game

You just said exactly what I said from the beginning, it's a descriptive word and that only, it is not a classification for games, becuase they already have their own genre. Hence the reason why those who do not have a set genre are classed as Sandbox games because the Sandbox is what makes the games various elements come together.

Bye

You're not going yet, I can smell a reply coming.

[Sinzer]

I am a glutton for punishment.

GTA is a sandbox game becasue it has everything

It doesn't have everything. It doesn't have planes, it doesn't have superpowers, it doesn't have the ability to create items, it doesn't let you walk into every building, it doesn't let you level your character, it doesn't allow you to interact with 90% of the people in the game apart from run them over, hit or shoot them.

Other games have these, those that are even in the "sandbox" genre. If I say that Garrys mod for halflife is more sandbox than GTA. However, would it fit into your definition for a sandbox game?

About Garry's Mod - GarrysMod.com

I don't think it will somehow.

Your definition is summed up as a sandbox game is a game where you are in 3rd Person perspective, can drive cars, run around and have the ability to shoot things with various weapons. A game like Garrys mod has none of these to begin with, yet is the one of the biggest sandboxes out there.

I dunno I just can't work it out.

If someone asks me what GTA is, I would never say it is a sandbox game. That doesn't mean anything, it just means you can ignore the goals and do what you want. If I said it is a 3rd person action game where you can drive cars and shoot things, then it describes the game.

GTA crosses a lot of genres, there is no one name for it. Sandbox is a very poor genre label to apply, sandbox can be done in so many ways, that as a genre title it is useless.

[cas398]

Originally Posted by Sinzer

I am a glutton for punishment.



It doesn't have everything. It doesn't have planes, it doesn't have superpowers, it doesn't have the ability to create items, it doesn't let you walk into every building, it doesn't let you level your character, it doesn't allow you to interact with 90% of the people in the game apart from run them over, hit or shoot them.

Other games have these, those that are even in the "sandbox" genre. If I say that Garrys mod for halflife is more sandbox than GTA. However, would it fit into your definition for a sandbox game?

About Garry's Mod - GarrysMod.com

I don't think it will somehow.

Your definition is summed up as a sandbox game is a game where you are in 3rd Person perspective, can drive cars, run around and have the ability to shoot things with various weapons. A game like Garrys mod has none of these to begin with, yet is the one of the biggest sandboxes out there.

I dunno I just can't work it out.

If someone asks me what GTA is, I would never say it is a sandbox game. That doesn't mean anything, it just means you can ignore the goals and do what you want. If I said it is a 3rd person action game where you can drive cars and shoot things, then it describes the game.

GTA crosses a lot of genres, there is no one name for it. Sandbox is a very poor genre label to apply, sandbox can be done in so many ways, that as a genre title it is useless.

Pedantic bob's in the house.

You know fine well what I mean, it has a lot more than one specific driving element whic Paradise has.

What GTA does and doesn't have is a whole different arguement, and your stupid for even bringing it up.

Are you really telling me you can't differentiate a game with one set genre and one without? , I don't even know what to say to that.

Half-Life is a FPS which I have already said, asking the exact same question also proves my point about your intelligence.

A Sandbox game doesn't HAVE to be in third-person, I never said it has to be anything specifically so you must have pulled that out from somewhere dark and dindgy. the whole point in a sanbox game is that it isn't any specific, I thought I had made that clear over the last 72 hours, oh yeah I did.

Garrysmod could well be a sandbox game, I haven't played it. It looks more like some sort of creation tool though. Don't even see the point in the suggestion to be honest.

The part emboldened also proves why you are completely wrong. Sandbox is what it is today because of GTA, so quite frankly I don't even know why I'm speaking to someone on a gaming forum who knows absolutely nothing about games.

Why don't you explain why calling GTA a sandbox game is useless then? I've already explained it is the perfect genre name becuase of what the game offers from the structure of the environment, but I'm sure you'll be able to better my explaination lol...

[cas398]

I had to sig your massive fail

[Sinzer]

Nice sig.... do i get a thanks for that too!

[cas398]

Originally Posted by Sinzer

Nice sig.... do i get a thanks for that too!

No, only people deserving of thanks get it from me

[tom_g]

Originally Posted by cas398

I had to sig your massive fail

but again mr Cas you are taking what mr Sinzer said out of context.... actually read what the paragraph said and it makes sense.

would a conversation go like this?

man 1- what type of game is gta?

man 2- sandbox

just to reiterate what mr Sinzer is saying- that conversation above doesn't really make a lot of sense.. most people would describe it as being "a 3rd person action game where you can drive cars and shoot things"

the game is first and foremost classified as being the above (3rd person with missions etc), because once you start the game you are led into a narrative storyline and offered many tasks to further complete the game. the sandbox element is a mode within the main game.... but certainly not it's main classification as type or genre of game

i'm not saying you can't classify gta as being a sandbox game, but being immature and having a signature which is taken out of context really isn't helping yourself in this 'debate'

[cas398]

Originally Posted by tom_g

but again mr Cas you are taking what mr Sinzer said out of context.... actually read what the paragraph said and it makes sense.

would a conversation go like this?

man 1- what type of game is gta?

man 2- sandbox

just to reiterate what mr Sinzer is saying- that conversation above doesn't really make a lot of sense.. most people would describe it as being "a 3rd person action game where you can drive cars and shoot things"

the game is first and foremost classified as being the above (3rd person with missions etc), because once you start the game you are led into a narrative storyline and offered many tasks to further complete the game. the sandbox element is a mode within the main game.... but certainly not it's main classification as type or genre of game

i'm not saying you can't classify gta as being a sandbox game, but being immature and having a signature which is taken out of context really isn't helping yourself in this 'debate'

First of all don't question my signature, there's nothing immature about laughing at someone making a plonker of themself . It wasn't taken out of context, it is what it is.

Cas will do fine.

All you have done is just given your opinion. You can give GTAIV any ten word genre you want, look back at what you just wrote and see for yourself how stupid it is.

It IS as sandbox game and that is the best way to describe it, and since you can't explain why it isn't then don't even bother replying with more crap like you just did because this isn't actually coming to a conclusion as a result of pointless posts like yours.


"the sandbox element is a mode withing the game".

How many times have I proved how stupid that sentence is? It doesn't even make sense, and no one can explain how it does.

Sandbox is a term used to DESCRIBE the environment in which the game is set. I have said that, everyone else has said that, so

Again you fail to take in the point I made about GTA offering many forms of gameplay withing the sandbox environment. Take that advice or leave it, I couldn't care less, but don't start making up any more rubbish please.

My question still stands, how is Sandbox not a good way to describe GTA, even though everyone does and that's what it is?

[RottenFox]

is this for real this thread...
is there no real way that it can remain civil, without the need for arguing, and personal insults..
any more **** from anyone, regarding insults to any other members, or repeated arguing, and ill close, and delete this thread, and post some infractions.

and cas398, kindly remove that qoute from your signature, or ill ask admin to do it for you.
i think the inclusion of that is pretty childish, to be honest..
if you want to include things like that, then i suggest you join maxconsole, or another game site where thats appreciated.

message ends...

[ODP]

Cas is there any game other than GTA that you put in the sandbox genre?