[Brandon515]

I have been reading about OLED for a short while now and it really seems amazing. I walked into Sears the other day and saw a 55" Samsung LED TV.

What's the difference between LED and OLED?

Thanks,
Brandon

[Trollslayer]

The materials used to make them mostly. There are still concerns about the operating life of OLEDs though.

[Chris Muriel]

OLED refers to the display panel itself.
So-called "LED TVs" are really LED backlit TVs , the panel itself being standard LCD.
Only the backlight is different in a "LED TV" - using LEDs instead of CCFL or HCFL (cold or hot cathode fluorescent lighting).
So in reality they should be called "LED backlit" TVs - but marketeers got in the way of total truthfulness

Chris Muriel, Manchester

[Brandon515]

Ah, ok. They are playing off of the future OLED's hype then.

Thanks for the replies.

Originally Posted by Chris Muriel

OLED refers to the display panel itself.
So-called "LED TVs" are really LED backlit TVs , the panel itself being standard LCD.
Only the backlight is different in a "LED TV" - using LEDs instead of CCFL or HCFL (cold or hot cathode fluorescent lighting).
So in reality they should be called "LED backlit" TVs - but marketeers got in the way of total truthfulness

Chris Muriel, Manchester

[nwgarratt]

Originally Posted by Chris Muriel

OLED refers to the display panel itself.
So-called "LED TVs" are really LED backlit TVs , the panel itself being standard LCD.
Only the backlight is different in a "LED TV" - using LEDs instead of CCFL or HCFL (cold or hot cathode fluorescent lighting).
So in reality they should be called "LED backlit" TVs - but marketeers got in the way of total truthfulness

Chris Muriel, Manchester

Thanks for that. They do still manage to be a lot thinner than current LCD's though. Any idea how many LED's are used as the backlit? Is the entire back covered in them?

[LV426]

If I understand it right, it can be done two ways. One is thin and the other is capable of really good contrast.

The thin ones are edge lit. And are subject to the raw contrast limitations of the LCD (plus any dynamic process on the backlight - which affects the whole image).

The other technique has an array of LEDs behind the panel, and the brightness of each can be modulated according to picture content - so you can have bright whites (fully lit LED) next to much deeper blacks (dimmed LED) at the same time.

I saw this technique demonstrated (alongside some other colour enhancing work) at a Dolby presentation over a year ago and the only word that comes to mind is awesome.

[nwgarratt]

Sounds good. Does that mean they don't have the limited lifespan of OLED that I have heard about. It was something as low as 4 years.

[LV426]

Yes. Regular LED lamps have lifespan measured in hundreds of thousands of hours, and the LCD in front is "just" an LCD so has whatever lifespan they have already - which I guess is pretty substantial.

[Stephen Neal]

Originally Posted by nwgarratt

Sounds good. Does that mean they don't have the limited lifespan of OLED that I have heard about. It was something as low as 4 years.

I think that is one of the reasons that they haven't come to market yet - as well as the difficulty in making large screen models.

Sony have demo-ed an OLED viewfinder for their HD broadcast studio and OB cameras and I think they are now an option - but there were issues with them going "mouldy" in the demo models I hear.

[Twin Turbo]

Originally Posted by LV426

If I understand it right, it can be done two ways. One is thin and the other is capable of really good contrast.

The thin ones are edge lit. And are subject to the raw contrast limitations of the LCD (plus any dynamic process on the backlight - which affects the whole image).

The other technique has an array of LEDs behind the panel, and the brightness of each can be modulated according to picture content - so you can have bright whites (fully lit LED) next to much deeper blacks (dimmed LED) at the same time.

I saw this technique demonstrated (alongside some other colour enhancing work) at a Dolby presentation over a year ago and the only word that comes to mind is awesome.

Are there any sets currently available that offer this technology, or are they all edge lit?

[LV426]

I suspect the answer is yes, but I couldnt offer any models/makes. I did find this item on Google:
IFA 2008: Philips Unveils LED Backlit TV - TV News - TrustedReviews
(not that I have any personal liking for Philips). There may be others.

[spaceman763]

Originally Posted by Twin Turbo

Are there any sets currently available that offer this technology, or are they all edge lit?

The Samsung 7 and 9 series LCD's which are now more or less unavailable, both offered backlit LED's. The replacement model, the B9000 is not due from Samsung until the end of the year and will be Samsungs only backlit LED model on offer for 09/10. All other models (B6000,B7000,B8000) use Edgelighting.

[daniel_owen_uk]

Originally Posted by Twin Turbo

Are there any sets currently available that offer this technology, or are they all edge lit?

Yes, dynamic backlighting is available.

Samsung LE40A786 'smart LED' 40in LCD TV • Register Hardware

The difference with OLED is that each pixel will be dynamically lit, rather than just each area.

[RookieTee]

Very cool technology.

[choddo2006]

Originally Posted by daniel_owen_uk

Yes, dynamic backlighting is available.

Samsung LE40A786 'smart LED' 40in LCD TV • Register Hardware

The difference with OLED is that each pixel will be dynamically lit, rather than just each area.

That's not right. As already posted, the difference with OLED is that it's completely different - the OLEDs actually produce the colour, where LED backlights just provide a white light source which is then filtered through a colour LCD matrix to produce the picture.

[LV426]

Originally Posted by daniel_owen_uk

The difference with OLED is that each pixel will be dynamically lit, rather than just each area.

Originally Posted by choddo2006

That's not right. ....

I think it's close enough.

[mannen]

OLED is definitely the future of monitors and TVs. When Sony announced their 11 inch OLED screen in 2007 I laughed and perceived it to be yet another cool product with high Sony tax added to the price. But when I got to see it in the flesh on my vacation in New York earlier this year, I was completely stunned by the sight of the TV. If you're impressed by the colour reproduction of Kuro plasma screens then the first OLED screen you'll see will knowck you to the floor. Contrast, brightness and vivdness was astonisgly immaculate and trumps anything I've ever seen.

The experience was very relaxing for the eyes too as they didn't have to strain themselves to distinguish similar colours from one another. I work a lot with editing tools like photoshop and would highly benefit from an OLED TV or monitor though it will be another 1-2 years before mass production commence. But nontheless OLED has the upperhand when it comes to image quality and colour reproduction.

[daniel_owen_uk]

Originally Posted by LV426

I think it's close enough.

Ok so an LED screen backlights a given matrix of pixels.

An OLED screen controls the brightness of each subpixel. Allowing for more contrast.

Is that more accurate?

[NicolasB]

Originally Posted by daniel_owen_uk

Ok so an LED screen backlights a given matrix of pixels.

An OLED screen controls the brightness of each subpixel. Allowing for more contrast.

Is that more accurate?

Well, it's still kind of missing the point.

The brightness of any given sub-pixel on an "LED" screen is controlled by the LCD matrix. The backlight is essentially steady and on at full brightness, and the LCD panels allow more or less of that steady light through them. It really is exactly the same as a regular LCD screen except that it used a different light source.

In an OLED screen each subpixel has its own light, and the brightness of the subpixel is controlled by the brightness of the light - there is no LCD matrix there.

As an additional tweak on LED-backlit LCD screens it is, in theory, possible to vary the brightness of the LED backlights independently, but most LED-backlit screens don't actually do this. Even in those that do, if the light is brighter then bright pixels in the area of the screen affected by that light will be brighter, but dark pixels will also be brighter! So you don't actually improve the contrast ratio between adjacent pixels, only (potentially) between pixels in widely separated parts of the screen. Making the bright pixels brighter spoils your black level. And most "LED" screens don't actually do this anyway.

[vipergrm]

If you want a mini preview of LED check out some of the new Samsung phones. I got my Samsung i8910 HD phone last week and this uses AMOLED. The screen colour and contrast in particular is absolutely astounding and it is so much better than any current LCD equivalent mobile screen. Next to my i900 LCD based Omnia, the difference is night and day. It will be the same when OLED is compared even to the best LCDs. They are capable of infinite blacks and decent whites which in turn produces astounding detail and contrast along with superb colors. Also, you will not have any viewing angle limitations or response time issues as OLED is well in to plasma territory in this respect.

So, it isn't another part time technology. It really is the future. There are countless other advantages like lower power consumption, flexible screens etc etc. Too much to name. Of course, the only major drawback is mass production, cost (currently anyway) and lifespan. I've heard that researchers have found a way to dramically increase lifespan so lets hope this comes to fruition sooner rather than later.

[Nunya Business]

actually oled and led are the exact same things. the only difference is oled is always made from organic materials, and regular led is not guarenteed to be organic. but led is not lcd lit by an led backlight. thats just not correct at all.
and there are lcd screens that display just as good as led, especaly the flcd screens

[Jonstone]

Originally Posted by Nunya Business

. but led is not lcd lit by an led backlight. thats just not correct at all.

Welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately you are wrong in your statement, the led screens currently on the market are exactly lcd's lit by an led backlight.

[Nunya Business]

unfortunately u dont know what the heck u're talkin about. this is what i sale every dag gum day. i have sat in all kinds of training classes about this, i know what i'm talking about. LED and lcd are two totally different technologies. LED is NOT just LCD with LED as the backlight. what would be the point? i mean u can even google it, better yet, go to sony's website or any electronic website. but please stop listening to these people because they have no idea what they are talking about.

Originally Posted by Jonstone

Welcome to the forums.

Unfortunately you are wrong in your statement, the led screens currently on the market are exactly lcd's lit by an led backlight.

[Chris Muriel]

Technically LED/OLED and LCD are indeed totally different technologies, with the former referring to the LEDs being the display itself.
Unfortunately, several manufacturers and retailers have marketed LED backlit LCD displays as "LED TVs"; in fact they are LCD TVs with LEDs replacing the CCFL (cold cathode fluorescent light) backlight.
So you are both right, depending on whether you're referring to the technical facts or the misnamed output of the retail sales and marketing community.

Chris Muriel, in Boston, Mass. this week but normally....

[LV426]

Moderator's Comment

Originally Posted by Nunya Business

unfortunately u dont know what the heck u're talkin about. this is what i sale every dag gum day. i have sat in all kinds of training classes about this, i know what i'm talking about. LED and lcd are two totally different technologies. LED is NOT just LCD with LED as the backlight. what would be the point? i mean u can even google it, better yet, go to sony's website or any electronic website. but please stop listening to these people because they have no idea what they are talking about.

Please try to moderate your temper and manner.

In FACT, the term "LED" as used by manufacturers of consumer TVs currently on sale (whether accurately or not) does describe an LCD screen which uses LEDs as backlight (either edge-lit i.e. in direct replacement of the more typical CCFL lighting; or as a matrix array behind the LCD panel). And not anything else.

I could not say with any certainty what it is you "sale every dag gum day" nor comment on the content of your "all kinds of training classes about this".

What I can say, though, is that, currently, the ONLY readily available consumer TVs from manufacturers such as Sony and Samsung (and others), that are described and marketed as LED, are IN FACT LCD sets with some form of LED lighting.

If your training told you otherwise, then it was, frankly, wrong.

And the point of it is - well any or all of the following (in theory):
- better colour rendition; LED lighting can produce better balance than CCFL.
- lower power consumption, less waste heat
- (in the case of matrix lighting, as opposed to edge lighting) local dimming can produce greater contrast
- (in the case of edge lighting) panels can be made thinner.

And, for the record - yes I DO know what I'm talking about!

[mark1080p]

What are the Samsung LED Series like compared to plasmas?

Everytime I see a LED their either switched off or playing a normal DVD So can never see what it can do?

Due to its very high contrast ratio, does it show against your average Plasma (20,000:1 example)

[Jonstone]

Originally Posted by Nunya Business

unfortunately u dont know what the heck u're talkin about. this is what i sale every dag gum day. i have sat in all kinds of training classes about this, i know what i'm talking about. LED and lcd are two totally different technologies. LED is NOT just LCD with LED as the backlight. what would be the point? i mean u can even google it, better yet, go to sony's website or any electronic website. but please stop listening to these people because they have no idea what they are talking about.

LV426 has answered this very succinctly so I am not sure there is much I can add to his reply.

As you so rightly point out there is a lot of misinformation out there, from manufacturers aimed at consumers, and for that matter from those training the sales force of major retailers.

The beauty of a place like avforums is that it is a place where you can get knowledgeable advice from people who have no vested interest in trying to sell a product.

[vipergrm]

Originally Posted by Nunya Business

actually oled and led are the exact same things. the only difference is oled is always made from organic materials, and regular led is not guarenteed to be organic. but led is not lcd lit by an led backlight. thats just not correct at all.
and there are lcd screens that display just as good as led, especaly the flcd screens

Maybe you should pay more attention in your training class. You must be getting confused with some other technology. Google it yourself and you will see that your findings are incorrect.

[clever minds]

LED vs OLED ?

LED : Light emitting diode
OLED : Organic light emitting diode

They both are similar things where OLED is usally used in display devices where LED is usally used in lighting devices.

OLED is used as a pixel itself without any back light and front RGB colour filters.

LED is used as the back light of the LCD screen.
In some cases it can also be used as a pixel itself without any back light but may use front RGB colour filters.

Now you know. Bye

[studio_two]

Originally Posted by LV426

What I can say, though, is that, currently, the ONLY readily available consumer TVs from manufacturers such as Sony and Samsung (and others), that are described and marketed as LED, are IN FACT LCD sets with some form of LED lighting.

Hello,

That little sentence told me EXACTLY what I needed to know.

Many Thanks,
Stephen