[JensH]

Toshiba seems to give up on SED.

See: http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20070112PR203.html


Press release, January 12; Emily Chuang, DigiTimes.com [Friday 12 January 2007]

Canon and Toshiba today announced an agreement by which Canon will purchase all of Toshiba's outstanding shares of SED, which was jointly established by both companies. On completion of the purchase, SED will become a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon, effective January 29, 2007.

The decision was reached following discussions between Canon and Toshiba based on the assumption of prolonged litigation pending against Canon in the United States with respect to SED (Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display) technology, the companies explained.

As a result of the discussions, it was decided that Canon will carry out the SED panel business independently in order to facilitate the earliest possible launch of a commercial SED television business. SED TVs are to be introduced in Japan in the fourth quarter of 2007 as originally scheduled, although Canon will reassess its future mass-production plans for SED panels.

Mr Kazunori Fukuma, the current president of SED, appointed from Toshiba, will resign from Toshiba, after which he will be hired by Canon and continue to serve as SED president. Also, in accordance with the terms of a new agreement to be entered into between SED and Toshiba, plans call for Toshiba engineers on loan to SED, to continue their assignments for the transition period during which Canon will establish the SED panel business independently.

[Tejstar]

That doesn't sound positive at all. It would be a shame if this technology turns into vapourware...

[AML]

Toshiba already make their own LCDs and such. Maybe theyve realized that there wouldnt be much point to relase SED at this point in time.
Toshiba may have also realized that LCD tech will soon be on par with SED, and so releasing SED now would just be a costly and eventually pointless endevour.

[Sprout Crumble]

Its more likely linked with this recent lawsuit by a US company that apparently licenced some of the tech to Canon but went ballistic when it was shared with Toshiba.
If the action has a solid foundation, its likely Toshiba, rather than screw up the whole technology, decided to get out to stop SED being damaged by a delaying lawsuit. Probably Canon will recompense Toshiba either financially or with technology in other areas.
Possible.

[AML]

Even so, with Toshibas departure Canon will have less credibility and less options in terms of which brands will use/Carry SED (Panasonic, Sony, Toshiba, and so on)
Its unlikely that Canon will start selling SEDs all by themselves.
I had always thought that Toshiba would launch SED sets and canon would get a certain percentage for each set sold.
But now it looks unlikely that SED will ever come out.

Toshiba are out, and I doubt Pany will sell them since they are investing in Plasma tech. And sony will focus on OLED and LCD for the future.

Who does that leave? Mitsubishi? Victor? Fujitsu? Its possible but these guys also have their money invested in LCD and Plasma tech.

Im only counting Japanese brands coz SED is being made in Japan and will probably come out here first.

If that tech prooves that it can be sold im sure western makers will start selling them too. But till then its up to the Jp makers to get the ball rolling.

[Loobster]

It seems obvious to me what's happening here.

The joint-venture between Canon and Toshiba wasn't covered by the agreement between Canon and this other company, leading to the litigation. Tosh had no choice but to drop out, otherwise there'd be a stalemate and the panels would never make it to market.

Now Toshiba aren't involved, SED can progress. If Canon weren't sure that they could make SED a going concern, now would be the ideal time to knock the whole project on the head. They haven't.

Just because Canon will produce the panels doesn't mean that only Canon can sell TVs based on those panels. Surely those panels can be sold to other makers (including Toshiba) to be incorporated in thier TVs, just as other manufacturers do now with LCDs and plasmas.

If they want to make SED work, though, they have to get products to market pretty quickly, given the advances on the way in the already established types of panel displays.

[AML]

I do hope they can get SED out on the market. It better be soon though, and they better advertize it like crazy.
I really doubt there will be that much of a difference with current LCD/Plasma tech so Im a bit scheptical at this point. Ill beleive it when I see it.
As for the common punter, im not so sure that they will buy into it like they have with LCD. The biggest driving force behind LCD is falling prices. Can SED match LCD for price?

[Tejstar]

Originally Posted by Sprout Crumble

Its more likely linked with this recent lawsuit by a US company that apparently licenced some of the tech to Canon but went ballistic when it was shared with Toshiba.

That's what I heard too, some reports suggest that whilst Toshiba may not be involved in the production, they may just 'badge' units with the Toshiba brand as it bypasses the potential law suit. Hope may not be lost after all!

[Speedoguy]

Most interesting information thanks.

Are we then relying on different companies using these panels that Canon produce or will they be able to put out their own fully fledged product?.Which of these options would see the quickest path to seeing these on the high street and I suppose other companies using the panels would lead to cheaper prices rather than just Canon.?

[Tejstar]

Well I think part of the reason Canon did this was to get to the market as quickly as possible. Who knows we may still see a release next year!

Isn't the problem going to be the lack of production capacity? Wasn't Toshiba going to build the main factory for SED manufacture? With Canon taking full control of SED Inc, will it have the resources to invest in a full scale volume production facility?

[Tejstar]

Who knows, maybe they'll just open a facility and develop the units on a much smaller scale.

[Sprout Crumble]

One thing Canon doesn't lack is resources.

[laurie]

Originally Posted by Sprout Crumble

One thing Canon doesn't lack is resources.

True but a TV manufacture,don't think so, like their cameras/printers though anyhow this other mob must have screws in their heads talk about cutting ones nose to spite ones face

cheers laurie

[hamster]

Originally Posted by Sprout Crumble

One thing Canon doesn't lack is resources.

They'll have to be looking to finance in billions of dollars to keep up with the rate of innovation and capacity extension in LCD - which would eat up all their profits.

Sharp's banks got cold feet, which is why they are now buying more from external panel makers.

Frankly I doubt if Canon can keep up.

News today from Americ re SED/Cannon:

U.S. District Judge Sam Sparks has issued his ruling against Canon in a patent dispute over a license agreement with Nano-Proprietary Inc. in the area of surface electron conduction technology, saying the company violated the licence agreement it had with Nano-Proprietary.

Surface-conduction Electron-emitter Display (SED) is a new type of flat-panel display technology that utilizes the collision of electrons against a phosphor-coated screen to emit light, similar to a cathode ray tube but, instead of having one electron beam hitting the whole screen, each pixel has its own emitter. It’s like every pixel of a SED display is a miniature CRT, resulting in a discrete arrangement that will allow SED screens to behave like a digital display such as DLP.

As a result, SED has all the advantages of cathode ray tube (brightness and contrast levels, viewing angle) and none of the drawbacks of current flat panel display technologies.

The ruling allows Nano-Proprietary to terminate its license with Canon. A source close to the matter told Reuters the trial would proceed to assess the damages due to Nano-Proprietary, and that a possible new licence deal could materialize

[Pejxa]

I was lucky enough to see a demo of SED at the IFA - Berlin 2005 - Toshiba booth - behind closed doors!! The setup was like this: 1 plasma to the left , 1 LCD to the right and an SED in the midlle - same video source and all separately conected to a power meter.
The SED was by far better in all aspects including picture quality (contrast , colour etc... ) and also had a much lower power consumption!!
The only reason Toshiba has bailed out of SED is because of the lawsuit. However it is still expected to be the first manufacturer to manufacter SED. It must be stressed here that the "real" money is not in manufacturing but in licencing the technology. i.e the royalties the companies pay to use technologies developed by other companies.

[simond83]

and thats why my shares in Nano P have just jumped 25%!!

[Tejstar]

Originally Posted by Pejxa

The setup was like this: 1 plasma to the left , 1 LCD to the right and an SED in the midlle - same video source and all separately conected to a power meter.

I remember seeing the pictures where it was quite clear that SED was the most impressive. I imagine it would be even more clear in person.

[Loobster]

I really hope that SED gets to market. OLED too.

Then we can have the best of all worlds.

[GrahamMG]

I think the comment from Matsushsita CEO was the most telling when he said that he was not concnered about SED as he doubted the screens could be made for commercially acceptable sales cost. Basically re-inforcing what many thought already, yep clever stuff but years away from being a mass market price if ever. As Toshiba seem to have jumped ship that would leave a very costly investment for someone the size of Cannon who are into much more profitable products than displays..........

[Snaques]

Originally Posted by simond83

and thats why my shares in Nano P have just jumped 25%!!

And when Canon can't afford to renegotiate the deal with Nano P... => =>

Just kidding mate

[simond83]

canon are one of the biggest cash rich companys out their, so lets hope a deal is done that we will be good for everyone!

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Canon and Toshiba both owned shares in a seperate business called "SED". Canon have 1% more shares than Toshiba and the "Toshiba bails on SED" is actually them selling their controlling shares over to Canon.

In actual fact, the same 500+ employees of the SED company are still there, and everything is still the same. The CEO of the company is the guy who always did run it, a guy who works for Toshiba. As part of the agreement to shift ownership, he retires from Toshiba and takes on new employment with SED.

SED's problem isn't who owns it. That is to be totally fair, not a big issue. If it (SED technology and market success) works, people will buy the licensing. The issue is the factory required to build this in large numbers will cost over $2bn to build and to put the money up for this they have got to know it will work. THe battle though is twofold, making the technology stand up at the various screen sizes and under production constraints, and secondly that by the time it comes it it will be competing with a flat screen market that no longer pays a lot for flat screens. i.e. typical mainstream plasma 50" price was £6k in 2003, £4k in 2005, and under £2k as we go into 2007. SED has got to come out and drop it's pants on price from day one to have any chance. By which time can the $2bn factory produce enough units to make the money back when the sale price per unit will have to be so low, all over the timescale of bringing the technology to fruition and actually getting the factory built. Anyone in this industry knows the elasticity of price:quality of product is not good i.e. people will know SED is better but will still take the cheaper plasma option.

[GrahamMG]

Exactly the point the CEO of Matshushiata was making, the fact that he said it whilst opening a huge new PDP plant that will almost quadruple the PDP output, I tend to agree with the fact that SED although clever isn't a big enough step forward to be a commercial success and the cost of production to break even any time soon..... Banks get nervious about long pay back periods.....

[la gran siete]

Originally Posted by Snaques

And when Canon can't afford to renegotiate the deal with Nano P... => =>

Just kidding mate

If it was me I would seell those shares anytime soon.

[jacko5]

Originally Posted by AML

Toshiba already make their own LCDs and such. Maybe theyve realized that there wouldnt be much point to relase SED at this point in time.
Toshiba may have also realized that LCD tech will soon be on par with SED, and so releasing SED now would just be a costly and eventually pointless endevour.

Wouldn't the purist say that plasma images are superior in many ways to LCD images and therefore be the main competition to SED?

[Liam @ Prog AV]

Purists would exactly agree with your comment jacko. However it's Joe Bloggs on the high street who buys the cheapest thing he sees that sways the market. Hence the widespread success of LCDs - they're cheap and people think the fact they have more pixels makes them better!!!!

[GrahamMG]

Actually it isn't only "purists", several surveys are asking a "before and after" Q&A, before seeing a Plasma and LCD side by side, many people think LCD to be best, after the demo when asked the same questions (quality, movement, colour balance, processing, live TV etc etc.) there is a huge sway in the other direction. LCD screens with more pixels just make the matter more obvious. I really do not see how any self respecting AV professional could recommend an LCD (over 40") over a good quality Plasma screen. The public are being misled.
Whilst I cannot agree with Pioneer showing a unbranded LCD screen next to their screen at a recent show, I would love one of the independent dealers to run a big side by side comparision of LCD and Plasma all being fed the same stuff at a large public show to save a lot of customers finding out about LCD the hard way..... Imagine a line of 42" screens, I ma sure ourselves, Pioneer adn Panasonic would be happy to lend screens for it..... Not so sure about Sony, Sharp etc....
I have to admit business is business but with the public becoming ever more aware of LCD's failings and likely to voice their feelings at some stage soon I can see some interesting times ahead for the industry as a whole..... I'd rather be honest and sleep nights, surely I can't be the "Lone Ranger" on this
Rant over.....

[simond83]

Originally Posted by la gran siete

If it was me I would seell those shares anytime soon.

Do you know something i don't then?