[daikide]

I started to love Pioneer after getting some of their electronics. Unfortunately I missed "Kuro", I can still get 50-60 inch ones, but it's just too big for me... I want 40-42... and well, maybe it is better to wait for OLED...

The question I have is as I know Pioneer is really (or was) into OLED...

Even here they show it off...
Comparison of OLED with LCD : Tohoku Pioneer Corporation

So my question is with this amazing company out of Plasmas... how big is the chance of their full return to display technology's in say 2010-2011... Since OLED's will get easier/cheaper to manufacture sooner or later it will seem stupid if Pioneer would not use it's HUGE "Kuro" brand for OLED HDTV's?

What do you think?

[mjcairney]

I, like you, am a bit of a Pioneer fan (see my signature line) and would love to think that you could be right but, somehow, I have my doubts, as they are currently planning on making ICE (In-Car Entertainment) their main "raison d'etre".

Unless OLED becomes extremely cost effective, I would reckon there is little to no chance of Pioneer entering that market but hey, I've been wrong before.

Cheers,

Martin.

[Suave]

Hi,

Only probable chance is if they re-badge someone else's product and/or tweak it. As for producing their own, you can pretty much forget it - they have/will be closing all their TV factories and probably sell them to raise revenue, the TV division is due to be shut down and most of the staff will be laid off. Many have already left and some been transferred to Panasonic.

Pioneer have a road-map to recovery and they will not enter a high risk, high competition market with OLED - nearly every brand will have performance levels that will set new standards and it may be much harder to gain a vast performance difference with OLED as it was with LCD/Plasma.

Pioneer will probably focus on what they believe will be their core markets for at least 5 years if not more in order to get back into the black as they have suffered very severe losses - they were a prime candidate for going under and were unbelievably fortunate that Honda invested money in the company which has raised at least some confidence - that money will also come with strings attached and it will not allow them to even remotely entertain the high risk TV arena given the spectacular losses the last one cost them.

You will see Pioneer OLED's and other great stuff but it will only be at shows as prototypes and will never make it to market - Japanese companies have a habit of doing this historically to show their adversaries, that even though they might not be competing anymore, they can still show superiority.

Suave!

[daikide]

Thanks guys, yes that does make sense...

Eh, so I missed Pioneer completely.

But yeah, that's what I thought about OLED, basically more or less every company will make a great TV, since the tech will be so good.

[eiren]

As an aside... although it may seem too big now... I bet you that once you've bought a 42" television... you'll be wishing you got a 50" version instead in a few months time.

Flat screen televisions are not like CRT screens and as a rule of thumb... the bigger the better (except if it's a tiny, tiny room).

[NicolasB]

Originally Posted by eiren

As an aside... although it may seem too big now... I bet you that once you've bought a 42" television... you'll be wishing you got a 50" version instead in a few months time.

I have a 55" screen and often wish I'd held out for the 70" version.

[daikide]

Originally Posted by eiren

As an aside... although it may seem too big now... I bet you that once you've bought a 42" television... you'll be wishing you got a 50" version instead in a few months time.

Flat screen televisions are not like CRT screens and as a rule of thumb... the bigger the better (except if it's a tiny, tiny room).

Haha! Maybe, but my room is not that big... 42 would be great.

[smith700]

Well, Pioneer exited the TV business. I saw their Extreme Contrast Concept Plasma at CES some while ago and was impressed. Was hoping they would market it next year but I guess I'll have to settle for a Panasonic now. Since they exited TV business we probably won't see any TVs from them anymore. Especially a new technology like OLED.

From another perspective, I don't think OLED will be able to compete with plasma or LCD price-wise sooner than 2 years. If you remember, when Plasma and LCD first appeared they were extremelly expensive. This happens with any new technology.

[Jon P]

OLED has been in ICE for a little while hasn't it? which is I'm sure where it will stay with pioneer.

[Otto J]

Originally Posted by daikide

So my question is with this amazing company out of Plasmas... how big is the chance of their full return to display technology's in say 2010-2011... Since OLED's will get easier/cheaper to manufacture sooner or later it will seem stupid if Pioneer would not use it's HUGE "Kuro" brand for OLED HDTV's?

What do you think?

Pioneer already had planned to manufacture tv's with third-party panels (Panasonic), but scrapped that plan too. Probably because the actual panels itself is only part of what made Pioneer tv's good, they would still need considerable investments in signal processing to stay ahead, especially when they would need to align their processing to new panels. My guess is that Pioneer didn't find the TV market profitable without a calculated profit off the panel itself, so whatever happens with OLED, don't hold your breath for Pioneer to come out with one - they could return to the tv business in some years time, when they have returned to a profitable business and seeks markets to expand into again, but it will most likely be quite a while before it happens. Sadly.

Re: flexing the muscles at the shows with products that won't be marketed, they can basically do that with their 60" infinity black prototype, and kick the asses of most other manufacturers' demos for several years to come. Not because noone can match their picture quality (I personally much prefer front projection), but because very few companies choose to do so. Most companies will most likely keep competing on over-sharpened, over-saturated, over-smooth, over-everything pictures. Which is why we should expect most OLED products actually on the market to be worse than Kuros - or even worse than just a well-calibrated Panny or Samsung plasma for that matter. In most tv's on the market, the limitations of picture quality has more to do with signal processing than the panels itself. The problem is that most believe that the solution to signal processing is to put in MORE processing, when what we really want is LESS, but BETTER processing, and the willingness to try to reach an accurate picture.

I'm actually not trying to put Pioneer on a piedestal or anything, they aren't perfect - but the others are worse.

[ertoil]

hey man , you didnt miss Pioneer...there are new lines right now of DVD and Blueray
players to combine along with a TV krl-32v - 37v (and yes although being LCD they re
black as hell and quality materials)

Even old stock plasmas 42" are rising again from Pioneer directly

i ll buy one soon , dont worry about that..there is stock and support for years

[confused88]

They still make A/V receivers, Bluray players, complete home cinema systems and even speakers. I think lately they have got some positive reviews. So if you feel like getting a pioneer it need not be a TV.

[sean5302]

I am part of Pioneer's problem.

Technically, a plasma is old-technology. Fewer pixels, lower resolution than LCD and higher power consumption. Heavier and prone to screen-burn.

Unfortunately, I then went and viewed one. Properly. At an AV show.

I then bought a 50" 507XD from a forum member (Chelsea Tone).

I'm going to have to explain what I write next by using the analogy of incandescent light bulbs versus LEDs. One uses a lot of power but gives much better light.

What do you want a light bulb for? To save power or to light your room?

The Pioneer plasmas give unbelievably good picture quality. Either SD or HD.

The blacks are black, without screen bleed and ghosting at the edges.

The whites are brilliant. Truly clear and radiant.

There are 5 inputs that I use regularly. HDMI, Scart, etc. Every input can have its picture settings set individually. Never seen that on another tv.

The tv has all the Freeview options and auto-updates.

The stand is built from girders. The undermount speaker is a sensation to listen to. The gloss of the screen and the surround delight my wife when she polishes them.

Did I say I was pleased?

BUT....

I didn't expect to be. On paper, it's old technology. Like an incandescent light bulb.....

[confused88]

What does it mean old technology really? Computers have been around longer than Plasmas but you wouldn't call them old technology would you? Many of the initial problems of Plasma Monitors have been resolved and now we have Full HD panels and although we cannot make them too small, this is not really an issue for home Cinema enthusiasts. LCD technology has found more applications but still some problems remain like the compromised viewing angle. I have yet to see a screen whose sharpness does not deteriorate when viewed from an angle.

[CAS FAN]

The wheel is very old technology, but is still very popular today. Point being, just because the tech is newer, doesn't mean that it's better. I can't really imagine a flat screen TV showing my SD & HD material much better than my Pio KRP500A.

With many purchases there is often a degree of regret somewhere (regardless of price), but with the Pio Plasma there has been not one ounce of regret. I love it and it was worth every penny twice over. It's a shame that they have pulled out of the flat panel market as I never want to buy another brand of TV now and would probably buy everything else as Pioneer now too (Blu Ray, Amp's etc.).

Oh and my room isn't massive but I would have gone 60" if I could have afforded it!

[ertoil]

there are no old technologies..just fashion for cows-dumbs (CEO's call you like this)
i will enjoy Sony and Loewe CRT's forever and plasma

¿lcd, led? no thanks ....dont you realize they return to "organic" with OLED ??
they ve cheated you again cow

[JoseD]

OLED is the 1st tech to manage to get the benefits of LCD/Plasma over CRTs (perfect focus, convergence, geometry, big size) with the benefits of a good CRT, ie. black level (field depth) and colors. Kuru plasmas do this but they're damn epensive. I can't help but laugh when people get amazed on OLED contrast and colors because that's what high end CRTs were giving us before they were gone. But with the life expectancy of these things (currently 2/3 years) I think I'll keep using my Toshiba 36ZP48 with a custom HD input using a HTPC for many years to come. Only thing I miss is the size, but working all day on a 19" PC monitor the Tosh just seems huge to me