[Mango Bob]

I picked up my shiny new copy of GT4 yesterday, and I'm wondering what all that development time was for, is anyone else?

The physics are better - but not astonishingly so, the model already pretty good.
The graphics are a bit better - but not amazingly so.
There are a lot more cars, there are more tracks.

It's still a great game and I'll play it till the end (or at least 99.5% like on GT3 - did anyone ever get all gold licences?!) but I don't feel like a kid in a candy shop like I did when I first played GT3.

Do we have to wait for GT5 on the PS3 before we see a real improvement?
How much will we have to pay to get online play - the only really important thing GT3 is missing!

p.s. Sorry for the new thread but I thought the previous bug thread wasn't the right topic.

[danvitale]

Im a big GT fan like you Mango Bob and I agree with everything you have said. GT4 is (Sadly) more of a GT3 update. I like it so far, but I think they missed the boat big time with no online play. Fair enough, an online version of the game is supposidly coming out later this year, but I wish it was included in the game.. theres so much Ive seen in GT4 that I would have sacrafised for the online mode (photos for example).. Ugh.

I think GT5 on the PS3 will be the real sequel that we have hoped for, and quite simply it has to deliver.

I still really, really like GT4 though.

[CAS FAN]

Yeah had this a while back on Jap format & apart from the 1080i there's nothing remotely impressive about it. It's a pretty boring game and not very realistic to boot. The graphics aren't anywhere near as goos as an early version of Forza Motorsport (demo) on the XB that i've got (that actually has proper scenery not just some masking foreground stuff with a photo as a background). If you try and drive off a cliff in GT4 then you hit some very solid "thin air" and those thin polythene strips that line rally courses must be manufactured with titanium. The AI is naturally rubbish as with previous GT games and the other cars are simply moving obstructions that have No Intellegence at all! You would have thought that they would have worked hard on this area (especially with the lack of online play) rather than some useless photo mode.

Yeah I was very disapointed with this game (as i've voiced previously on the forums) but sadly it will sell loads just because it's a gran turismo game.

[Mango Bob]

gthom, I didn't really want this to become another xbox vs ps2 thread, or a forza vs gt thread as that's been done to death. Please can we keep the comments specifically about gt4?

Originally Posted by gthom3

The graphics aren't anywhere near as goos as an early version of Forza Motorsport (demo) on the XB that i've got

while true that's hardly surprising, the xbox just has newer, more capable graphics hardware and I'm not specifically bothered about that in gt4. to be honest I feel that the graphics should come second to the gameplay.

Originally Posted by gthom3

If you try and drive off a cliff in GT4 then you hit some very solid "thin air" and those thin polythene strips that line rally courses must be manufactured with titanium.

as someone else remarked in another thread - the game isn't destruction derby. I don't feel this level of detail is required as long as the on-track racing is good. in the game i don't expect after finishing the race to grab a cup of coffee and drive through a carpark to my in-game home...etc etc

although, performance damage without graphical damage would have been acceptable...i still seem able to ram cars off without penalty. does this occur on later races anyone?

Originally Posted by gthom3

The AI is naturally rubbish as with previous GT games and the other cars are simply moving obstructions that have No Intellegence at all!

they could have improved on this, but AI is hard to do well - online play would have fixed this as you'd be racing against naturally intelligent opponents!

GT4 is a good game, and as I get used to the new handling I'm starting to prefer it (just need better control of my brakes now!)...but I can't help but feel that they concentrated on developing the wrong areas of the game.

[Weon]

Sorry to butt in but maybe as someone who has the game you could answer this for me...

Has GT4 got that really annoying feature where some events require you to complete 10 races, one after the other, without letting you save and come back a bit later? (In the event selection screen, the races are linked by arrows)

This really annoys me in GT3 as I often don't have an hour or so to sit down and try to complete them all!

[Mango Bob]

Originally Posted by Weon

Has GT4 got that really annoying feature where some events require you to complete 10 races, one after the other, without letting you save and come back a bit later? (In the event selection screen, the races are linked by arrows.

Ummm, you can save between series races in GT3...you don't need to do all 10 in a series. After finishing a race one of the options is save game, just next to the option to go to the next series race i think.

I doubt they've changed it in GT4...still doing early races though!

[Dr_Mike]

Does anyone know / has worked out how the arcade mode works ? ie how do you unlock the remaining tracks and where do the 'A-spec scores' it gives you fit in ? I've won at all the 'World Circuit' tracks in arcade mode but it hasn't unlocked the rest. Do I need to get above minimum score on each, or does doing something in the GT mode unlock them ?

I'm not that bothered about the lack of damage. If you combined the realistic driving physics with realistic damage, I think the game would be very hard indeed unless they made the AI cars very slow. Some circuits seem to have more / bigger gravel traps which does put a bigger penalty on going off the circuit.

One or two of the new circuits seem abit 'Mickey Mouse' but I know there are many better ones which I've yet to unlcok / drive in GT mode. Good to see though, that the Nurburgring is available from the word go

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by Mango Bob

gthom, I didn't really want this to become another xbox vs ps2 thread

lol Neither do I, that would be very dull indeed. I talk in games, not consoles (as I own all three I appreciate a good game no matter what platform it's on). My points were just comparing GT4 & what i've seen of Forza Motorsport.

Originally Posted by Mango Bob

as someone else remarked in another thread - the game isn't destruction derby. I don't feel this level of detail is required as long as the on-track racing is good.

I am not referring to the lack of car damage but more the fact that the track has silly invisible boundaries. Where i'd expect to slide round off track with my back end fighting for grip on the gravel, instead my back end hits a very hard bit of thin air and my car comes to a near standstill. This spoils the gameplay for me as apart from ruining the feeling of realism it simply frustrates.

Originally Posted by Mango Bob

they could have improved on this, but AI is hard to do well - online play would have fixed this as you'd be racing against naturally intelligent opponents!

It is hard to do but then again it's deffinately one of if not the most important part of driving game to get right. The AI on PGR2 was pretty good and was fun to race against and it's great on Forza (if you've not played the demo give it a go and you'll see what I mean) with cars spinning out, sliding off track, outbreaking each other, crashing into each other and opponents that actually defend the racing line. GT3 & 4's AI is shocking and isn't really AI at all - it's merely just scripted. Cars follow each other round in a train with the occasional overtake attempt by one of them. They stick almost entirely to the same line and never try and defend or drive aggressively. As there is no online mode getting the AI right is essential for an enjoyable game and sadly their failure to do so renders GT4 more of an Encyclopedia of cars than an actual game.

Originally Posted by Mango Bob

but I can't help but feel that they concentrated on developing the wrong areas of the game.

I agree 100%! They seem to have focused on getting the best graphics possible out of the PS2 (they are amazing for the PS2 to be fair). This focus has meant that the gamplay suffers. Doing time trials of some of the circuits is fun and there are loads of circuits and cars but these are the only real positives that I can pick from the game. Yes the game is big but there's no way that I could bring myself to play through it. I've owned the NTSC version for a good 6 weeks now and I can honestly say that after a few plays in the first week it has sat in my drawer unplayed.

[AML]

I already started a post for GT4 a while back where I complained about the game. And Im afraid I have to again.
Remember this is my opinion and just because some of you like this game and have started this thread, doesnt mean every one else likes it. You dont need to "protect" the game from the opinions/abuse of others. If it were a good game it wouldnt need protecting.

My biggest gripe is simple. For a game that is 100 percent OFF line, the AI is inexcusable.
If the game had an online component then at least you could forgive the AI as it wouldnt matter.

My 2nd biggest gripe is that this is a supposed sequel yet introduces nothing new to the genre or even to the series. That is also inexcusable considering how long the game was in developent.
All they have done is make it look better and given us more cars and tracks.
That does NOT equal a sequel!

Any other game caught doing the same would be laughed at and never sell.
Why is this game selling so well? I feel its because people are stupid and buy into all the marketing thats out there.

IF GT5 is a better game I will get it, otherwise forget it. After having playd GT4, I no longer trust Sony's famous "driving simulator" (again, where is the simulation?) series and will have to look at reviews and test the game before buying from now on.
I would no longer go out there and buy a GT game thinking that i can trust them and that my money is well spent.
Does anyone else feel that they are just milking people for money?
sony!

[Pooon]

Originally Posted by gthom3

renders GT4 more of an Encyclopedia of cars than an actual game.

You stealing my quotes again gthom!!!. As originally posted by me:

Originally Posted by iamtheone

The best review i have read for GT4 is in this months EDGE magazine, they give it 7/10 which when you read the whole article seems very generous. They say that GT4 hardly passes as a video game at all now, it's now an "encylopaedia of cars that you can drive" the racing aspect of the games has gone due to aforementioned AI

Busted

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by POOONTANG!!!!!!!

You stealing my quotes again gthom!!!.

lol, I thought i'd read that somewhere . To be honest I couldn't put it any better myself as after giving it some decent play that's exactly what the game is!

The game is fun initially as you try out all the new cars & tracks but once you get over that it's just an average racer with poor AI. It also tries to be realistic on one hand and then totally fails on the other.

I remember reading you views on a previous thread AML and after playing the game for myself it seems that we agree entirely on this game.

Sony & Polyphony have really let them selves down with this, which is a shame as had been looking forward to this game for over 2 years.

[AML]

You cant blame polyphony completely though. I get the feeling sony just wanted them to make another one on the PS2 before geting to work on the PS3. (ie the milking) I bet polyphony realised what they were doing with GT4, but there wasnt much they could do about it.
Again, Sony.
Its at the point where games are controlled by corporations who dont care what is brought out, as long as it sells and makes its proffit.
These corporations dont realise that they are destroying the very thing that keeps the revenues coming!

[CAS FAN]

Originally Posted by gthom3

Sony & Polyphony have really let them selves down with this,

I don't just blame them . It's a poor show by both after they have also had quite a lot of development time. Racing games have come a long way since GT3 (which was great when it came out) and for them to release a game now that has barely advanced on a 4 year old game is very poor indeed. As has been said, they have focused on the wrong areas IMO.

[danvitale]

I think youre right Gthom3, as big a GT fan that I am, I would have easily sacrafised the B-Spec mode, and pic functionality for either Damage, better AI or online play..

oh well.. GT4 should waste away some of the wait for the PS3 and GT5....

[CAS FAN]

Aye believe it or not I actually bought my Broadband adaptor when online was first anounced for GT4 - back when SSX3 came out I think! I bought it for GT4 and then sold it once I heard that it wasn't going to be online! To be honest they've blown it with me now and even if they do bring out an online version.

[Mango Bob]

I have to say now that I've played it a bit more, the AI definitely feels better than gt3 - perhaps the cars are more "stupid" in early races as they're smarter in non-beginnner races. The cars are more aggressively defending racing line (I keep getting cut up!) and the drivers do make mistakes too - one win last night was solely because the lead car span out in front of me.

The more I play it the more I like the driving engine too, it takes a bit more getting used to as you have to concentrate on balancing the car more than you did in GT3.

[monkeyleader]

Okay so picked this game up this afternoon - first impressions arnt good - perhaps its becuase ive become so used to the feeling of PGR2 which just feels faster and more responsive - Im going to give this game a good going over this weekend and then make a decision on wether to keep it or not - I didnt think Id be saying that for GT4 !!

[Kopite4Ever]

i think this just shows that the ps2 has had its days and is showing its age to some degree. ive been a massive supporter of sony's console and ive had mine since day one of release but i find myself not getting games for ps2 and more towards my pc now. dont get me wrong there is some good games out for the platfom and im not biased towards any other as i own it gaming pc and xbox, but it seems there is a lack of ideas of what the dev's can do for the console because of its limits. its (GT4) one of the biggest titles exclusively for ps2 and from what ive gathered from you all its a poor effort. i got the prolouge version a long long time ago and that was boring, not much different to GT3 which i did own. i still feel like most PGR2 is a superior game (im not starting a flame war) as its so much nicer to play. think were they dropped the ball abit is to not include an online mode, to me thats suicide.

just my 2 cents and cant wait for the next Generation of Console

[Mango Bob]

Roll on the PS3, can't wait! The cell architecture should make for some amazing physical modelling in its games.

Until then - it's worth giving GT4 more than a couple of hours, but it's not the revolution GT3 was. Perhaps all our hopes were too high, but what do they expect after making us wait 4 years for a game

[CAS FAN]

Belive me, going back a year or so people used to call me a PS2 fanboy as back then there were so many reasons to own a PS2 (My main one was PES!). People also didn't understand that it was the games that I was interested in (not the consoles). Now though I would own an X-Box instead of a PS2 as PGR2 is still better than any PS2 racer & the X-Box has online PES4!. Notice that it's the games that decide my fave console. PES4 & GT4 were the 2 most vital games to sony IMO and by not employing online play in them both they have really handed M$ the crown IMO. Silly Sony!

Originally Posted by BauerCTU

i still feel like most PGR2 is a superior game

indeed it is - GT4 has nothing on PGR2!

[monkeyleader]

So it could be my console but the load times between races are a killer - and Im talking 5 minutes or so ... just another reason why this game is going back. Im so dissappoined as as Ive been looking forward to this so much ..!!

[Sarnaget]

Hi Guys,

Not received my copy of GT4 yet, I've had this on back order from Amazon since 18th June 2003 !!.

You'd think I might be one of the first they'd send out.

Anyway, the lack of online play is a bit disappointing and I agree with the previous comments regarding gameplay being a big factor rather than pretty pictures. graphics etc.

I've been a fan of the GT series since the original, bought my PS2 solely for GT3 and then bought the network adaptor soley for GT4.

However, all may not be lost. There is an website that has a piece of software that runs on a PC that if you then network your playstation to your PC, you can play GT4 online.

Not had a chance to try this yet as I'm still waiting for the postman, but it may be just what we're looking for !

have a look at http://www.teamxlink.co.uk


Ryan

[Pooon]

Originally Posted by gthom3

indeed it is - GT4 has nothing on PGR2!

Think we all know where i stand on this.

[Mango Bob]

Originally Posted by monkeyleader

So it could be my console but the load times between races are a killer - and Im talking 5 minutes or so ... just another reason why this game is going back. Im so dissappoined as as Ive been looking forward to this so much ..!!

I'm not an expert on ps2 hardware but that sounds buggered...it's about 20 seconds at worst, usually less between screens. If the gaem worked with HDAdvance you could run it from a hard drive and eliminate the load times - but I've not seen anyone get it working with that yet.

I presume the disc surface is ok - does anyone else know if this is a symptom of his ps2 laser dying?

[Louis Mazzini]

GT3 was a let-down because it was just a graphically polished re-hash of GT2 but with far fewer cars; now GT4 is a let-down because it's, basically, just GT3 but with a much better car/track selection. In other words, if 4 had been released instead of 3 it would have been great but, as it is, both 3 and 4 are a bit dissappointing.

I played through some races yesterday, tried to convince myself it was good fun - then put on Toca 2 (on XBox) and immediately started having some proper racing fun.

[locky79]

if anyone remember EDGE gave this game a 7. Looks like those folks are still the only place to rely on true reviews of games.

COME ON NINTENDO bring out Mario Kart on the REvolution!!! anyone checked out the arcade version of mario kart yet?

[H4r7y]

GT4, for me has taken me back to first getting my mitts on GT on the psx, i missed the boat on gt3 as i didnt have a ps2 back then so i cant compare the new one to it, which i think may be why ive got a slightly different view on things.
but im sure the weak review from some of the magazines wont harm the sales of the game with GT fans. Im certainly more than happy with it.

[Dean]

It takes awhile to get used to it and get decent cars but it is a great game. I really like the new courses and i've been playing it a lot Much better than PGR2 IMO.

[Mango Bob]

I can't compare it to PGR2 as I've got no xbox - but it really is growing on me the more I play.

The handling is MUCH more complicated - I've still not got the weight transfer right on corners and occasionally smack into walls as a result. The AI is also improved.

To anyone that's given up in the first few hours - give it a chance, it's just the differences are more subtle then you'd expect. Some of the new courses are fantastic too - I really like El Capitan, very pretty...haven't played Grand Canyon yet!

[H4r7y]

i dont know why project gotham 2 is held in such high regard, its a decent game and pretty and stuff like that, but i cant help thinking that it cant really make up its mind if its a simulation or an arcade racer.
now i know the online mode is killer and worth having the game on its own, fact!
but i dont think you can really compare GT4 and pgr2, as GT4 knows its a simulation from the minute the power buttons pressed.
ive played through pgr2 and loved it dont get me wrong, but even without the pretty graphics (by the xbox's standards) gran turismo 4 imho is the best thing since the original on the playstation many moons ago. its got me hooked from the start!


this isnt a pitch for a full scale riot in this thread either, just another side of things for anyone who is thinking about buying this game, and keeps reading that its poor compared to other games. i also think that the game has been tarnished by the amount of time it took to get the game on the shelves.