From the Inquirer: Apple has killed music, says boffin

[Peter Galbavy]

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...d-music-boffin

Pretty much what I've been saying for a while, but I ain't a professor...

[nonumb]

interesting. 2 years ago I would've been similar to some of the comments there saying theres almost no difference in quality but now I really notice it since getting decent speakers amp etc.

The only problem is i've been building up my music collection for years in mp3 so now loads of my collection sound terrible now.

[meansizzler]

I don't use headphones, can't stand them, besides I can't tell the difference between an MP3 encoded at 128kb/s and the Uncompressed .WAV version when played back via optical to my Onkyo Amp and pair of Mordaunt Short Alumni's.

I can tell the difference between a Dolby Digital Plus and True HD soundtrack though..

I think people just make a big fuss about the quality loss, CD Audio sounds flat to me compared to Compressed version.. I compress using Fraunhofer IIS MP3 Codec, very accurate and great sound at 128kb/s. I use EAC to Rip so I don't get glitches in the audio, even studio master MP3's or stuff on napster contain glitches

I think we should be more concerned about the glitches/hisses/crackles/pops in MP3's rather than sound loss compared to compressed version. Most people say they can'thearthe glitches from their illegally downlaoded music, I say they need their ears cleaned and need to get off the headphones and use a set of stereo speakers, if you listen to the music at a high voulme you won't hear them, but at low/moderate voulme you will, PC spekears are the best way to tell if gliteches are present in your music

[nonumb]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

I don't use headphones, can't stand them, besides I can't tell the difference between an MP3 encoded at 128kb/s and the Uncompressed .WAV version when played back via optical to my Onkyo Amp and pair of Mordaunt Short Alumni's.

I can tell the difference between a Dolby Digital Plus and True HD soundtrack though..

I think people just make a big fuss about the quality loss, CD Audio sounds flat to me compared to Compressed version.. I compress using Fraunhofer IIS MP3 Codec, very accurate and great sound at 128kb/s. I use EAC to Rip so I don't get glitches in the audio, even studio master MP3's or stuff on napster contain glitches

I think we should be more concerned about the glitches/hisses/crackles/pops in MP3's rather than sound loss compared to compressed version. Most people say they can'thearthe glitches from their illegally downlaoded music, I say they need their ears cleaned and need to get off the headphones and use a set of stereo speakers, if you listen to the music at a high voulme you won't hear them, but at low/moderate voulme you will, PC spekears are the best way to tell if gliteches are present in your music

The bit in bold is exactly what the article is talking about on cds etc it is how is was designed to be played and people are so used to mp3s now that they believe this is how it should sound.

Maybe your onkyo amp isnt great for music (dont know what one you have though but I assume an av reciever if it has digital) but on my stereo system there is a huge difference, on my onkyo av reciever not so much.

I have not heard any high end pc speakers (if such a thing exists) but I cant imagine that they show up glitches in sound better than a proper stereo set up.

rip a cd to your hard drive using 128 182 256 or 320 kbps and then play a song straight after play the same song on cd and tell me you cant notice the difference especially on high notes and the more subtle bits in the music.

[meansizzler]

Originally Posted by nonumb

rip a cd to your hard drive using 128 182 256 or 320 kbps and then play a song straight after play the same song on cd and tell me you cant notice the difference especially on high notes and the more subtle bits in the music.

The reason you can hear the glitches better on pc speakers is because you tend not to blast the voulme so high compared to a seperate hi fi system.

Also I can't hear a difference between the two.. using a .Wav from the cd and mp3

Also I am not one of them Ipod listeners, I don't use headphones only play back music from pc once in a while

[nonumb]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

The reason you can hear the glitches better on pc speakers is because you tend not to blast the voulme so high compared to a seperate hi fi system.

Also I can't hear a difference between the two.. using a .Wav from the cd and mp3

Also I am not one of them Ipod listeners, I don't use headphones only play back music from pc once in a while

perhaps your speakers just arnt detailed enough to hear the difference then because I can definately hear a difference on mine. I also listen to music at varying levels on my computer and I find if anything glitches are more pronounced at higher levels

[meansizzler]

Originally Posted by nonumb

perhaps your speakers just arnt detailed enough to hear the difference then because I can definately hear a difference on mine. I also listen to music at varying levels on my computer and I find if anything glitches are more pronounced at higher levels

I'm pretty sure they are, my centre alone cost £120

I have these, just the two fronts and centre

[nonumb]

anyone else have any input on this?

Perhaps its because yours is an av set up (I assume if you're running a centre) rather than dedicated stereo? Well I know others on here will say that they can notice a difference as I know a lot of people use DACs etc and rips their files as lossless.

Either way there is no point discussing it as you cant notice a difference and I can. I'd prefer it if I couldnt as most of my music is ripped to my computer in mp3, although it is harder to hear a big difference with the higher quality stuff.

[meansizzler]

Well like I said I can notice a difference between a dolby digital plus and true hd soundtrack, can you?, as one is compressed the other is lossless

But can't notice a difference between mp3 and cd, maybe your using a poor mp3 encoder? wouldn't trust the one that comes with Itunes or Windows Media Player as it is free.. it's not just about the bitrate you use as a lot of the decoders out there are inaccurate and quality wise don't deliver , just like them freeware ac3 decoders people use to rip/convert their dvd's, they don't even come close to Sonic Foundry Soft Encode

[LFC_SL]

The poorly researched article on the Times confuses two issues;

• 'Hot' mastering
• Poorly encoded digital music and portable hardware

Portable Music (MP3, iPod etc.) - AVForums.com
AVForums codec and bitrate discussion thread
Headphones & Headphone Amps - AVForums.com

Source, quality of recording and headphones. The big three that can be controlled by the end user. For those inclined to look into it they can research portable amps

And arguably a third point is that people just do not care and/or cannot hear the difference in public. After all a good song on the radio is a good song. Ignorance indeed is bliss

[drummerjohn]

128kbps - top end sounds awful on my system, you can hear the pitch change on the cymbals as the codec struggles to compress the additional data.

The loudness issue is my biggest bugbear. So much music is overdriven at the mastering level.

As for the difference between DD & Dolby TrueHD. I too can tell the difference. However... I believe the two tracks are different for a reason that has nothing to do with encoding. If you want to sell a new product... tweak it. That is what I believe the studios are doing to the audio tracks, they're applying something extra that has nothing to do with encoding.

Call me a cycnic.

[mjn]

Originally Posted by meansizzler

Well like I said I can notice a difference between a dolby digital plus and true hd soundtrack, can you?, as one is compressed the other is lossless

The two terms there are not comparable, it should be compressed vs uncompressed, and/or lossy vs lossless.

[daveb975]

Originally Posted by nonumb

anyone else have any input on this?

Perhaps its because yours is an av set up (I assume if you're running a centre) rather than dedicated stereo? Well I know others on here will say that they can notice a difference as I know a lot of people use DACs etc and rips their files as lossless.

Either way there is no point discussing it as you cant notice a difference and I can. I'd prefer it if I couldnt as most of my music is ripped to my computer in mp3, although it is harder to hear a big difference with the higher quality stuff.

I think the difference between an AV and a Hifi system does have an impact.

I used to run a Cyrus system with full size B&W speakers, and I often found MP3s hard to listen to on it. I always stuck with CD.

Now I find I do not listen to music so much, I have moved to a home cinema system. It is not a really cheap one (Denon 2808 amp into B&W M1 speakers), but I am finding the difference between CD and MP3 much less noticeable now when I run it in stereo/direct mode.

I now find that streaming Apple Lossless files to my amp via Apple TV gives as good a sound as CD through that set up. I am sure if I went back to a dedicated CD transport and full size speakers, I would notice a difference.

[Harj]

I've never owned an MP3 player and use my Nokia N95 8gb for portable music (incidently, I plugged the phone into the Bose headphones at the Regent Street store and my friend could not notice the difference between the phone and the ipod).

I've never liked the idea of not owning a hard copy of a film or cd, and recently I resurrected my in storage system for 5 years , A Cambridge Audio 640 Azur V1 amp, NAD C524 cd player, and I recently added JBL E20's, nice bedroom system.

I now tend to retire to the bedroom an hour earlier than usual, listen to Led Zep, Miles Davis and remind myself never ever to by an ipod. I listen to music from my system and appreciate it far more than when I listen on my phone or at work.
Would rather buy CD's with the money, the quality does not compare.

BTW , for comparison, the Mrs has an ipod touch, Seinheuser headphones, and I have a Nokia 95gb which I use with Seinheuser as well.

[nwgarratt]

Originally Posted by mjn

The two terms there are not comparable, it should be compressed vs uncompressed, and/or lossy vs lossless.

DD+ is lossy so it is lossy v lossless. Even lossless has some compression.