Sacd Mkii

[Oasis-GasPanic]

Apparentley Sony & Philips are going to redesign the SACD code to include video so it can compete directly with DVDA. The problem is I've read the newer revision of the format won't be backwards compatible with "normal" SACD players . My personal opinion is stuff the new standard, who cares about a few video clips. If you want to watch a video of the band/artist buy their DVD, I really don't see the point of causing everyone who has invested in this format all this hassle due to some D**KHEAD at sony wanting video and menu's on the disk.

Whats everyones opinion on this and do you think it will happen? (I think I read somewhere the new SACD will completely phase out the old one by 2007)

Regards,

[rnjones]

I read this info on Highfidelity review, and I am with you Oasis Gas Panic. You can see the members of the DVDA forum sitting in their meetings laughing until they weep at this news.

They could write a book, "Waiting for the new one, how to kill a format" by Sony and Phillips.

I agree if I want pictures I will buy a DVD. Usually when I listen to music I am chilling out, reading, talking to the other half or friends, or cooking some food. Couldnt give a monkeys about pictures.

If SACD2 will play on SACD1 machines, but with no pictures thats fine. If they wont play at all... by by SACD.

And another thing! Media (record) companies are always moaning about disc copying. Well the solution seems straight forward to me. Copying DVDAs is still out of reach of all but the geeks and you cant copy SACDs as far as I can see. So why not promote these "secure" technologies?

OK the average punter in the street does not have the technology to play SACDS today, but most DVD players will reproduce sound from a DVDA. OK not great sound but on your average system it will sound fine.

So get most hardware (including In Car machines) to be universal. Make SACDs and DVDAs competitive to CDs in price terms and get teh catalogue out there and away we go.

It will take a while but it has to be the way forward. If Phillips and Sony are making it more complicated, then DVDA will win.

Rog

[owenw]

I totally agree with you both.
*begin rant*
Wasn't SACD supposed to be the "ultimate in "pure" sound? Surely adding Video circuitry to a (dedicated) SACD player will degrade the sound? I know most people will be using DVD players with SACD compatability but even these often switch off video circuitry for audio playback. Not that Average Bloke knows or cares about such things.

Whats really killing off SACD is:
The format war with DVD-A, the lack of titles available in high-street stores and the ridiculous price premium.

Flicking through the current Sony catalogue I notcied all the usual hype over SACD has all but vanished. Sales must be at an all time low.

This latest news about SACD-2 is just another nail in the coffin.
I for one will not be buying an SACD2 player just for some poxy video clips. How many people even bother to look at the clips on current CD's anyway?
*end rant*

You've been a lovely audience
Thank you and good night ;o)

Owen

[rnjones]

OwenW one thing I found out this week is just how little DVDA or SACD discs can be bought in Oxford Street.

I went into town for an appointment and had an hour to kill in Oxford street. Went to HMV, couldnt find DVDA, asked an assistant, "they are mixed in with the CDs". Went off to look for some artists who have DVDA titles...... er no. Dark Side of the Moon SACD was there, got it already, and much cheaper in Tescos.

Nothing at all.

Wandered down to the Virgin Megastore. A few SACDs mixed in with CDs. Joe Satriani Engines of Creation £19.99 Yeah right its £14.99 on Play!

Asked an assistant about DVDAs, "they are up by the Music DVDs".

Off I went, wow, they must have had 8 to 10 titles on a little stand near the music DVDVs. Nothing I wanted.

So how does this work? Oxford Street is supposed to be a premier shopping area with two of the biggest music stores in the country. But hardly any DVDA or SACD to buy.

This may be because most media is on import from the US. OK you can and will buy ONline but some people (not me) like shops and browsing.

Neither format will take off if the record companies dont launch titles, at a sensible price. More and more players are coming out supporting both formats, and at a reasonable price point. Lack of media is the issue.

I wont bother with Oxford Street again. Going to NYC in september. Hope to have better luck there.

Rog

[owenw]

I tried the biggest HMV in Grafton St., Dublin (the Irish equivalent of Oxford St.) recently and they said I was the first person to even ask about SACDs! They had none at all and no plans to stock them (or DVD-A) anytime soon.

Like you Rog, I buy mostly online, but there again there is the limited choice. Unless you are into Classical or Jazz in a big way (I'm not) there are hardly any discs worth buying.

I found Dark Side in a dingy record shop for about €15 on SACD but like you say it's even available in Tesco!

I once tried to buy an SACD from Amazon UK and after more than 2 months they told me it wasn't available. They get back to me when it was back in stock. 1 year later and no word. (I'd completely forgotton until this thread began) So what few discs are out there are not even being duplicated in any great quantities.

Good luck with the search Stateside, Rog

Owen

I've got two SACDs, and I'm not completely convinced by the format. It does sound a little better than CD, but not a lot. However, the discs seem to love starting with a huge, screeching digital noise when you first play them! If you pause the disc, and then restart it, it plays properly. This happens on my SACD/DVD player, an old Technics CD player and a portable SOny CD player...seems to me the format is somewhat flawed.

[rnjones]

Hi Rhoamish, thats a strange fault. I have heard of DTS recorded Cds doing that in some instances.

I have played DSOTM SACD on a number of players new and old (apart from my Linn Mimik which wont read the disc) and have not had any strange things like that.

However I only have three SACDs so far, The Police Every breath you take and Peter Gabriel Shaking the Tree (as well as DSOTM).

I have to say the Police SACD which is in surround has amazing sound quality all the way through. Peter Gabriel is a bit more variable as tracks were recorded across quite a few years. The newer tracks (from So) are very good. I have compared the So tracks to the CD playing on my Linn CD player and the SACD is far superior. However the SACD tracks are remastered and a true test would be to compare remastered CD with the SACD tracks.

But I am not buying remastered CDs if I can get the SACD for a similar price.

Rog

It mainly occurs with Tubular Bells, but it's also happened with Lovebox (Groove Armada). It's quite an annoyance, I wonder if it's been noticed by anyone else?

I wouldn't be surprised if the format sounds better on later, well-produced albums. However, it's just too limited at the moment! I can't see it replacing my CD collection just yet.

[owenw]

Hi Rhoamash,

Is your DVD player still under warranty? I would be inclined to bring it into the store where you bought it and ask them to listen to it while you play either of those discs. I have about 5 SACD's (Hybrid, Stereo and Multi-Channel flavours), including Tubular Bells and Groove Armada's "Goodbye Country (Hello Nightclub)", and not one of them cause a noise like you descibed. It sounds like a fault to me, mate.

Love the surround effects on GA's album (totally OTT which works great with dance music)

I would say that the real improvements in audio will become apparent when the entire mastering process is done with DSD.
The sample SACD I got thrown in with my SACD player has a few DSD recordings and these are outstanding.

Michaels Jackson's "Thriller" doesn't thrill me (sorry :devil) compared with the CD version, but then the original recordings are 20 years old...

Does anyone know if www.play.com the best place to buy SACD's a reasonable cost?

Owen

But it happens on 2 different CD players as well! I guess it could be a problem with the discs.

The DVD player behaves itself perfectly (other than with SACDs) so I think I might just drop this format until something better-supported comes along.

[rnjones]

Owen if Play have it in stock they are pretty good on price and good on delivery.

I have also bought from www.towerrecords.co.uk mainly import, but good prices and delivery inside a week.

Also ordered from dvdboxoffice, not bad prices, still waiting for delivery though.

Amazon do them too but they are pricey when you add deliver cost.

Rog

[owenw]

Thanks for that rnjones. I'll have a peek at the sites you mentioned.

It probably is the 2 discs you have rhoamish, SACD's use the exact same discs as DVD's, just differently encoded data.

Have you managed to play any other SACD's successfully without stopping and restarting playback?

I find my SACD player skips like mad from the smallest scratch/fingermark on regular CD's. No problems with SACD's to date though.

Moving still further away from the topic has anyone compared DVD-A with SACD? Can you tell one from another?

Owen

[the_pauley]

A bit difficult as you would have to compare the same titles. Certain companies are backing SACD and others DVD Audio so no titles are available on both formats (as far as I know).

Of course this could all go the way of Quadraphonic. We were promised the end of the stereo album within two or three years of the lauch of Quad, but given competing formats and a lack of interest from Joe and Josephine Public the format died.

And the success of any format depends on its adoption by the mass market - not just the enthusiasts. To the general consumer CD was an immensely appealing format over the LP. It was much smaller, sexier, more portable, would never wear out, didn't have to be turned over half-way through, would hold more music and promised (although it took a while to deliver) superior sound quality to vinyl.

However as regards SACD and DVDA, in the general public's eyes the appeal is not on the same scale as the change from LP and CD. It's still a shiny 5" silver disc. Why should they go out and buy new equipment and start replacing CDs that they already replaced LPs with? Sound quality, I hear you say? But bear in mind that the vast majority of music buyers have never heard decent hi-fi equipment and have never heard CD at anywhere near it's full potential; and they care not a jot.

For that matter how many hi-fi buffs are enjoying the format at it's full potential? Hands up how many of you out there can afford to spend anything from £15,000 to £25,000 on a state of the art CD deck from the likes of Chord or Krell? And then another five figures on the amplification and speakers to do it justice?

So the end of CD, I feel, is far from a done deal...