[Edward Catflap]

Noticed there's a fair few fellow metalheads on here, so someone may be able to help.

I've noticed on play.com that some of the Ozzy era Sabbath albums are geting a re-release (again), only this time in 2 or 3 cd editions. Despite multiple online searches, I can't find any info as to what's gonna be on the extra discs.

Does anyone have any info?

http://www.play.com/Music/CD/PROD/3-...d/Product.html
http://www.play.com/Music/CD/PROD/3-...h/Product.html
http://www.play.com/Music/CD/PROD/3-...y/Product.html

[overkill]

The impression I get (from Sabbath insiders) is that this really is a 'scouring of the vaults', and the guy who runs one of the main Sabs site makes some fairly skeptical comments about the need for, or value of, more un-released material. If each CD release is three albums long, well................ there's going to be a lot of 'filler' in there. As he said, The 'Black Box' collection pretty much covers everything anyway.

For me this has been one of the banes of the CD age. Too much space to squeeze on CD's, and too much money to be squeezed out of fans is a bad combi. Of all the 'bonus material' I've heard, from all the CD's I own, about one albums worth was any good, with most of that being from the Beatles, and frankly that's not (even close to being) worth paying out the extra cash.

Remember, most of the unreleased material wasn't released for a reason. Basically it wasn't good enough to be stuck on the album in the first place.

Most telling of all, apparently Iommi had to have his arm twisted even to get moderately involved in this re-release project. On the positive side, it will include re-issues (eventually) from the entire catalogue, Black Sabs to the most recent material. Somewhere in that lot there will be some stuff worth having. Hopefully.

It was also commented that the April release date was 'optimistic'.

[turbodanny]

Don't forget the new Heaven and Hell Tour (Sabbath with Dio basically) is about to start touring and will be over here by the end of the year.

Tour looks awesome!!

Stage set here:

http://www.masterworkslighting.com/s...venHell06.html

[Edward Catflap]

Originally Posted by overkill

The impression I get (from Sabbath insiders) is that this really is a 'scouring of the vaults', and the guy who runs one of the main Sabs site makes some fairly skeptical comments about the need for, or value of, more un-released material. If each CD release is three albums long, well................ there's going to be a lot of 'filler' in there. As he said, The 'Black Box' collection pretty much covers everything anyway.

For me this has been one of the banes of the CD age. Too much space to squeeze on CD's, and too much money to be squeezed out of fans is a bad combi. Of all the 'bonus material' I've heard, from all the CD's I own, about one albums worth was any good, with most of that being from the Beatles, and frankly that's not (even close to being) worth paying out the extra cash.

Remember, most of the unreleased material wasn't released for a reason. Basically it wasn't good enough to be stuck on the album in the first place.

Most telling of all, apparently Iommi had to have his arm twisted even to get moderately involved in this re-release project. On the positive side, it will include re-issues (eventually) from the entire catalogue, Black Sabs to the most recent material. Somewhere in that lot there will be some stuff worth having. Hopefully.

It was also commented that the April release date was 'optimistic'.

Ta for the info Overkill. I'm in agreement about the rip off of constantly re-releasing old stuff. I really wondered if there was gonna be some live stuff on them as I can't believe that Past Lives is the best quality and only live Ozzy era stuff in the archive & available commercially (not counting Reunion obviously as I mean 70's stuff), but maybe it is. I also wish they'd release some more live footage on DVD like the California Jam as I know that was filmed, and I'm guessing some other gigs were too.

Anyway, will certainly wait & see what's to be on the up & coming cd re-releases before spending my hard earned.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by Edward Catflap

Ta for the info Overkill. I'm in agreement about the rip off of constantly re-releasing old stuff. I really wondered if there was gonna be some live stuff on them as I can't believe that Past Lives is the best quality and only live Ozzy era stuff in the archive & available commercially (not counting Reunion obviously as I mean 70's stuff), but maybe it is. I also wish they'd release some more live footage on DVD like the California Jam as I know that was filmed, and I'm guessing some other gigs were too.

Anyway, will certainly wait & see what's to be on the up & coming cd re-releases before spending my hard earned.

One of the problems with early Sabs live, is that in all honesty, they weren't very good. Hence the band were unwilling to release a 'bona fide' live album of that period. 'Live at last', a release undertaken by the record label, is notorious for it's highlighting of mistakes, bum notes etc, that the completely un-together Ozzy Sabbath live performances were (in)famous for.

It's perhaps no surprise that once the two alcoholics left the band, Ozzy and Bill Ward, that live they started to improve. By contrast I saw Dio Sabs quite a few times and they were excellent. Even with Bill it has to be said. Although, the current touring line-up, was the best I saw at the time. I think Bill is a great guy, and a decent studio drummer, but Vinnie Appice is a notch above him live.

[Edward Catflap]

Fair enough then. Sadly I wasn't old enough to see the original line up 1st time around to see for myself.

BTW, as you're clearly a Sabs fan, I wonder if you have The Sword's Age of Winters album? Complete early Sabbath rip-off obviously, but none the worse for it really to my ears.

[dmpoole]

Originally Posted by overkill

One of the problems with early Sabs live, is that in all honesty, they weren't very good.

What!?
I saw early Sabbath from 1971 onwards at least once a year and they were bloody awesome all the way up to Van Halen supporting them.
Some of my best gig memories are from Sabbath concerts. If you'd said Zeppelin weren't very good live then you'd have a point (I saw them 4 times).

Anyway, looking at the setlist from a bootleg I've just received, all the songs are from DIO's Black Sabbath era - not one OZZY song.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by dmpoole

What!?
I saw early Sabbath from 1971 onwards at least once a year and they were bloody awesome all the way up to Van Halen supporting them.
Some of my best gig memories are from Sabbath concerts. If you'd said Zeppelin weren't very good live then you'd have a point (I saw them 4 times).

Anyway, looking at the setlist from a bootleg I've just received, all the songs are from DIO's Black Sabbath era - not one OZZY song.

Well, you must have been either smoking some powerful weed , or plain lucky, as Sabs tried to stop all bootlegs of their Ozzy period, took NEMs to court to try and prevent 'Live at last' being released, and really, there is no quality bootlegs of that period, because they weren't very good.

Ozzy is a great showman, but as musicians they just didn't work in that lineup. The critics for once, who admittedly don't like Sabbath, have a point when they lay into them for consistently turning in duff performances. As one journo put it, "the whole reason Sabbath tried to stop Live at last coming out, was not because it wasn't representative of their live shows, but because it was". Iommi even states that the, not so great, Live Evil is a 'good' album simply because the playing on that is good quality- by comparison with their 70's shows.

As for Zep being poor, well, on occasion every band is, but I think you've just hit Ozzy Sabs on the odd good night, while hitting Zeps on the odd bad. No-one I know has ever stated Zep were consistently poor, quite the opposite in fact.

[stasis]

Hi I saw Sabbath when they toured with Big Jim Dandy and Black Oak Arkansa. I thought they were superb. Live recordings from the time never did justice to bands.
regards stasis.

[dmpoole]

Originally Posted by stasis

Hi I saw Sabbath when they toured with Big Jim Dandy and Black Oak Arkansa. I thought they were superb. Live recordings from the time never did justice to bands.
regards stasis.

I was at Trentham Gardens the same year and it was an awesome gig.
Ozzy bought his young son on stage (not Jack) and he headbanged in front of Iommi (think it was that tour).
Last year I got my hands on a Black Oak Arkansas DVD and its awful - Dandy must have the lowest voice in rock.

[overkill]

Originally Posted by stasis

Hi I saw Sabbath when they toured with Big Jim Dandy and Black Oak Arkansa. I thought they were superb. Live recordings from the time never did justice to bands.
regards stasis.

No, but not all gigs are good because a band plays well. I saw Sabbath five times around that era and only when Ozzy went did I actually enjoy the gigs as 'musical' events rather than just because I loved Sabs. I wouldn't mind, but even Iommi himself has admitted they were pretty lax as a live act - until Dio and Appice, two musicans with a top pedigree, forced them to get it together.

As for live recordings from the time not doing justice to bands, even with overdubs, there are some superb live albums from that era. However, CD isn't kind to live albums. Live DVD's I admit are pretty poor, but that's because without being there, you don't get any of the 'feel' of an event and it all looks very 'flat' and two dimensional.