[JohnG]

I'll start off by saying that I used to play bass and so am not an expert in drumming !
I listen to a lot of music and these days I find myself more and more trying to deconstruct the tracks and listen to the different instruments during the track. The other day I was listening to some Metallica and concentrated on the drums and the more I listened, the more it sounded wrong to me. Now I can't listen to some Metallica tracks without thinking that the drumming is wrong
I'm not sure why I think it's wrong, maybe it sounds to me like Lars is not playing with the rest of the track, it's as if he's competing with it
I'm not sure I'm making sense any more, but if someone who knows about drumming can put me out of my misery I'd be grateful

[nerdyjim]

Lars is in a world of his own, im not even sure he knows the rest of the band are there!!

[karkus30]

Righteo...............from my scant two years of lessons:

Drummers rarely play on the beat, they push and pull the band sometimes leading sometimes hanging back.

You work with the other instruments to create the feel of the music, so you might use 'Beat displacement' to emphasise one half of a bass note on the guitar. Quite often when I am drumming in my little band, I will play around with synchopation (this makes the beat sound like it has speeded up or slowed down in tempo) and displacement, but I have to tell the band Im going to be doing it so they dont follow me.

To get a good idea of how this works best you need to listen to funk bands and in particularly Dave Weckls' drumming and for a real crash course try any of Captain Beefhearts albums-he was a real exponent of sliding tempos and evolving time signatures (most good musical bands manage this to various degrees, but Beefheart is incredible). Finally Jazz musicians evolve this into its most esoteric form.

Lars plays a lot of synchopated stuff, but he is not always the best example of a drummer, I always think of him as lacking finesse, although he has a great feel for a metal groove.

Listen to Terry Bozzio, Dave Wecl, Bill Bruford as examples of fusion drummers to get an idea of what is possible.

[pmc]

Did anyone watch How Music Works on C4 recently? One of the episodes was about rhythm, they explained how it works, and talked a lot about emphasis on particular beats, different time signatures and pushing and pulling the beat. It was really fascinating and I find myself often analysing the rhythm section on a song now. Worth keeping and eye out for a repeat if you interested in that sort of thing.

[JohnG]

That's just the kind pf program I'd enjoy watching, I'll keep an eye out for a repeat. I've found This On C4 but not had the chance to look through for any repeat schedules.

[pmc]

That's the one. If you know were to look it can found in the usual places.

[karkus30]

Originally Posted by pmc

Did anyone watch How Music Works on C4 recently? One of the episodes was about rhythm, they explained how it works, and talked a lot about emphasis on particular beats, different time signatures and pushing and pulling the beat. It was really fascinating and I find myself often analysing the rhythm section on a song now. Worth keeping and eye out for a repeat if you interested in that sort of thing.

Its a pity is not out on DVD as it made the musical explanations really simple to understand. Emphasis on beats is called 'accenting' and I did a drumming master class on it at rudimentary level a couple of months ago and included 'pushes' (synchopation) and ghost notes...........drumming is one big complexity I tell ya............I can play guitar using TAB, but imagine my horror on realising that I now had to play drums to a REAL score, with proper notes and everything !

It was brilliant the way he split up the different musical components on that programme though.

[JohnG]

I'd like them to release classic albums on DVD with options to listen to the instruments on their own or say have the bass and drums only playing. Kind of like having the mixing desk on the DVD

[davidm]

Probably not everyones taste, but Mike Portnoy (Dream Theater) has a number of DVD's out with 'drum cam' footage and you can listen to the full track or just the drums on their own.

Fascinating from my perspective

[krish]

Originally Posted by JohnG

That's just the kind pf program I'd enjoy watching, I'll keep an eye out for a repeat. I've found This On C4 but not had the chance to look through for any repeat schedules.

the whole series can obtained via UKNova, including this particular installment ...

How Music Works with Howard Goodall
Channel 4 Saturday 25th November 18:20-19:20
Part 2 of 4 - Rhythm

From the moment our hearts start beating, rhythm is integral to us all. From walking to dancing, from clicking our fingers to tapping our toes, we are all programmed to respond to rhythm. In this film Howard looks at the common rhythmic patterns that have been used by musicians from all cultures, from Brahms to rappers, from the founders of Cuban son to Philip Glass, from Stevie Wonder to Fats Waller.

Why do some rhythms make us want to dance, while others make us feel tranquil? How does rhythm 'work' when there is no obvious pulse, as in much classical music? What links African drumming to J S Bach? Why do virtually all popular singers sing ahead of the beat?

And how is it that a tiny Caribbean island has produced a rhythm that dominates popular music the world over?

As regards UKNova ... "To reduce server load, a limit of 30,000 registered users is imposed, with unused accounts being dropped after 42 days of inactivity to make way for new users"
- i.e after refreshing the signup page a few times, there should eventually be an opportunity to register (worked for me that way )

How Music Works has since leaked to the other usual places, but UKNova "has a strict policy of not allowing material which can be legally purchased"

[karkus30]

I did try and legally download the programe from channel 4 but something didnt appear to work so I gave up trying.............if anyone from channel 4 is watching (please obtain and burn it to disc and I will buy it).

[tryingtimes]

UKNova never sent through my confirmation email so I can't login.
I can't run the Channel4 VoD service as my HTPC isnt Windows XP.
This is becoming frustrating.
Can anyone offer other advice on where to get this programme? (current torrent trackers are 'down' as far as I can see).