[the_pauley]

Wonder what anyone else thinks? SACD and DVD-A releases seem to have slowed to a trickle.

Especially frustrating as SACD's hybrid capability, should mean titles can be released with no worries about specialist equipment being needed.

A bit worrying as Sony/Columbia (creators of SACD) have been putting out some superb CD re-masters of many classic titles. No reason why these could not have been SACD hybrids like their Dylan re-issues. Indeed no reason why all their releases both new and re-issued should not be SACD hybrids, if they are serious about the format.

Consumer awareness among the general public is zilch. I find myself having to explain SACD and DVD-A to almost everyone I know.

[MartinImber]

I buy very few CDs as finding a CD is almost impossible - I have two DVD-A but I have to playback on the computer.

When I get a play anything player I will give up CDs completely

[eviljohn2]

I think it was always going to be a limited market. The vast majority of people don't realise the capability of a normal CD, let alone the hi-def versions.

The problem I have with multi-channel music is that to benefit you really have to be sitting somewhere close to the sweetspot for it not to sound odd. This is far less of an issue with stereo music where you can be anywhere in the room and not lose out on the fidelity.

Edit: Also remember that DVD-A discs are backwards compatible with any DVD player, although only with standard DD surround rather than the hi-def track.

[dynamic turtle]

I think DVDA has (or will very soon, at least), die a quiet death with the release of DualDisc. AFAIK on 750 titles have been released on DVDA. A pitiful number.

I for one will not lament its passing - they made a number of key errors with the format (in audiophile terms). I am extremely upset to hear not all of these issues will be rectified by DualDisc:

1) The bit-rate lottery - are you gonna get 16/44.1 or 24/196?

2) Am I going to get a stereo, multi-channel or both types of recording on the disc?

3) You have to use a tv in order to select audio options and navigate tracks

4) Watermarking/copy protection absolutely massacres the sound quality - much more than red-book IMO. Just listen to the David Gray "a new day at midnight" DVDA, for example.

5) Absolutely terrible, almost non-existent marketing drive and massive consumer consfusion. (SACD too)

Plenty more problems with the format which I don't have time to list. Don't get me wrong, I like DVDA - it can sound wonderful when done properly, but the flaws listed above push me over to the SACD camp.

As for the future of SACD, well, its not particularly bright, either. There is more software out there (don't know how much), but perhaps enough to justify a small investment in the format for most audiophiles.

EvilJohn, you are correct about the capabilities of the humble cd. The things Mobile Fidelity can do with the format leave me breathless sometimes!

DT

[the_pauley]

Agree with the comments by Dynamic Turtle re. DVD-A and DualDisc.

Biggest drawback for me is having to turn on the telly to play music.

Love the fact that SACD can go anywhere a CD can. Plus if the format goes the way of the Dodo, you've still got a usable CD.

Having said that I've not been overly impressed with either format when compared to a well mastered CD played on an audiophile deck. Hair's breadth of a difference and not always in favour of hi-def.

And yes marketing of all formats has been truly s***e!

[CJROSS]

Ive always been more than happy with what CD can bring to the party. I have CDs I own that sound truly stunning.

H0-res/def has failed for 2 reasons :

Lack of support from their backers

Aiming for a Multichannel music lover, most audiophiles I know that very very large selections of CD & Vinyl. the indusrty going down a 5.1 route was/is a death knell move.

And I say that with a Tosh SD-9500.

If only they concenrated on stereo mixes and a bigger selection of music it could have been so different.

IMHO of course. I once made the mistake of getting into the forerunner of DVD-A called DAD 24/96 a nice stereo DVD-V format, Im gald to say that I avoided the take up of a SACD or DVD-A player because they have went the same way. Both are going to be shot in the head.

Dual disc and its "potenetial" quality is a total joke, thus its corrupt before we even get it. Im sticking with CD, Vinyl and DVD-V for my stereo audiophile needs. Oh and any DVD-As that are left with high res stereo mixes.

[alexs2]

Dual disc is at best a compromise and rear-guard action by the DVD-A consortium,but a number of major manufacturers(Meridian included)have stated that they will not guarantee that the media will play successfully on their equipment....there are issues regarding not only the thickness of the individual layers and laser focus,but also the total thickness of the disc,which is bordering on the maximum acceptable.

There are other reports circulating that Sony manufacturing etc would be happy to see the back of SACD....so I think given the overall availability and the uncertainties,at this stage,both media are on life support.

[the_pauley]

As for DualDisc's problems - check this out.

[CJROSS]

This thread would get more hits in the hifi forum dudes IMHO of course.

[dynamic turtle]

Originally Posted by alexs2

....there are issues regarding not only the thickness of the individual layers and laser focus,but also the total thickness of the disc,which is bordering on the maximum acceptable.

And therein lies the contradiction, the format simply hasn't been constructed from the ground-up as an audiophile (read: high-quality) format. It is a mongrel, IMO. How exactly am I to have confidence in something that:

a) Might get jammed in the player
b) The transport might not be able to read properly (jitter, anyone?)
c) Will only be available in the US (patent law issues?)
d) will probably require a screen for set-up & track navigation

From what I have read, there are huge engineering (read: quality) compromises with the DualDisc format. Its a non-starter, imho.

Buyer beware.

[overkill]

Aiming for a Multichannel music lover, most audiophiles I know that very very large selections of CD & Vinyl. the indusrty going down a 5.1 route was/is a death knell move.

*Deep breath* Totally agree. I have now got rid of virtually all my DVD-A's, as they were, with two exceptions, a bitter disappointment. Just using one classic example, Auto for the people, not nice (audio wise) on CD, ideal for HD treatment. So what do we get? A hideous set of naff re-mixes for 5.1. My limited stock of SACD's will survive as most are good quality stereo mixes (the 5.1 mixed ones have been "sent to ebay") but what support will they get? Looking increasingly like none.

Im sticking with CD, Vinyl and DVD-V for my stereo audiophile needs

Ditto.

[vonhosen]

I've got probably about 25 DVD-A & SACD discs , the catalgoues available simply aren't very inspiring.

Find most 5.1 mixes gimmicky & end up listen to high res stereo mixes which tend to sound better.

[dynamic turtle]

I am actually thinking about selling what few DVDA's I have left, so I can concentrate on SACD/CD & Vinyl instead. Most DVDA software is a complete mess, as highlighted above, and the albums I'll miss are (bar one) available on Vinyl or CD anyway.

Real shame as some DVDA's are superb.

[CJROSS]

DT Id be interested in any DVD-A with 24/96 or 24/192 STEREO mixes, give me a shout when you deicde what your doing, I have a stack of Region 1 DVD-Vs that are no use to me now either, some may interest you dude.

[CJROSS]

Dudes if you want to see how Dual Disc quality can vary from decent to crap check out this link in particular :

Jamie Cullum : Twentysomething : Decent
Keanes : Hopes & Fears : Crap I mean 44.1Khz high resolution dom me a favour guvnor.

http://consumers.umusic.com/dvda/releases.html

Jesus there is 2 DVD-As from Sting in there Ive never heard of before !!!!!!!

Edit :

Dudes anyone got good URLs to sites that list DVD-A track listings (like the one above), ie what type of mixes are on board and the resolution of said mixes. Or is it a case of chasing down the record companies websites ?

Its pretty scarce on the ground & Google FWIW.

[dynamic turtle]

Funny you should mention Keane. I went to HMV (Oxford Street) - the largest & most well stocked in Europe, IIRC, and they did not have it on SACD OR DVDA.

But they did had on bloomin' vinyl, didn't they?! Only 120g, but sounds sweet nonetheless.

44.1 "Hi-rez" - why bother??
As for DVDA track listings & info, I generally rely on www.highfidelityreview.com.
Will let you know when I start shifting DVDA's CJ.

DT

[CJROSS]

DT you’re a star, Crowded House : Crowded House on DVD-A 24/96 Stereo Resolution nice one !! to go with the CD & 180g pressing I have already of that. There is no mention of this DVD-A, or FTM the Sting Sacred Love/Brand New Day ones being available in the UK, so looks like ordering via the US.

Is it any wonder UK Audiophile don’t take up these formats?, you could not make this up. We just have to wait until a specialist impoter brings em in and whacks a huge mark up on the discs.

So it bascially looks like a long hard trawl all over the net to track down track res type info and then ordering via the US as Play/Vivante have lvery imited stocks here in the UK.

[dynamic turtle]

Originally Posted by CJROSS

Is it any wonder UK Audiophile don’t take up these formats?, you could not make this up. We just have to wait until a specialist impoter brings em in and whacks a huge mark up on the discs.

What, like DVD4Music.com ?

Also have Crowded House - Woodface on 180g - almost glued to the player

DT

[overkill]

Also have Crowded House - Woodface on 180g

Hi Dt. Where did you pick that up?

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by overkill

Hi Dt. Where did you pick that up?

Diverse Vinyl - mines is a Simply Vinyl 180g pressing IIRC.

Quite simply wonderful.

[dynamic turtle]

Well, I got my copy (simply vinyl) in an HMV sale for £3.99!!!!!!!

Couldn't believe my eyes!!!

[CJROSS]

DVD4Music.com

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggggghhhhhh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Great site DT but it does not even tell you if the tracks have any Stereo mixes on them, just the resolution – 24Bit/96Khz. Looks like an enquiry every time to check if said discs have stereo mixes.

Anyway a good list of DVD-As to check out.

DT - I got mine in a Simply Vinyl Sale @ Diverse £10 (Still a bargain IMHO) along with Mystery White Boy Tour Live - Jeff Buckley - Double 180g for £10. IIRC Diverse had a sale on recently.

[dynamic turtle]

OK, 1-all then - I paid full RRP on my 180g copy of Grace

[CJROSS]

Originally Posted by dynamic turtle

OK, 1-all then - I paid full RRP on my 180g copy of Grace

2-1 to CJ £10 at a hifi show for Grace SV 180g.

[overkill]

Diverse Vinyl - mines is a Simply Vinyl 180g pressing IIRC

TA.

They mail me, so I'll have a look next order time.

[the_pauley]

One detrimental side effect of WEA entering the DVD Audio arena is they seem to have slowed down their re-mastering (HDCD or otherwise) of their CD back catalogue.

At one point all sorts of superb re-masters were appearing, (many HDCD encoded), but now they are few and far between.

Would love a good quality CD re-master of Donald Fagen's "The Nightfly" for example. I know it's on DVD-A, but although I've got the hardware, I'm not buying into that format as it looks llike its days are numbered and there's no backward compatibility to CD.

With pop music mastering being as bad as it is there is often little to be gained from hi-def audio apart from the advantages of multichannel.

With classical it's a different matter and thats where SACD has a more significant market share (also lots of Jazz SACDs too). There are plenty of fantastic multichannel classical SACDs out there and the format will likely at least continue in that niche if not elsewhere.