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Old 17-06-2004, 11:33 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Smile Beatles/Neil Young/Prince/U2/Kraftwerk remasters

I find it totally ridiculous when the above artists have had their back catalogue released on poor quality cds in the late 80s, but then not remastered at all since then.

Does anyone know anything about any these important matters? I mean, just releasing the Beatles albums remastered would make EMI an absolute mint. They're fools IMO for not doing this

I saw Q reviewed the Kraftwerk remasters recently, but they're not available, according to Amazon.co.uk at least. I'm absolutely gagging to buy all albums by all of these artists. What the F is going on?
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Old 17-06-2004, 11:46 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Forgot to add Springsteen to the list
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Old 17-06-2004, 12:02 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Sorry to get anyone's hopes up with the thread title ;-)
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Old 18-06-2004, 12:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorshin
Sorry to get anyone's hopes up with the thread title ;-)
Too late - you did! Damn your eyes!!!



But yes, what are the companies playing at, especially with The Beatles? Come on EMI. I have all the original CDs and these were a lot better than most CDs released in the 80s as George Martin had remastered them for CD, as opposed to using tapes EQ'd for vinyl, but thse would really benefit from current remastering technology.

EMI have done this already with HDCD re-masters of The Beach Boys back catalogue which are a sonic revelation, even on non-HDCD equpped machines.

Sony seem to be remastering (superbly too) every artist in sight incuding many minor cult artists, but no Springsteen, one of their biggest ever acts!

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Old 18-06-2004, 1:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Has anyone actually got the remastered Kraftwerk albums.
I'm thinking of getting them, but can you really hear that much of a difference?
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Old 22-06-2004, 12:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I'd like to get the Kraftwerk remasters. I saw them live and their sound is so much better than the CDs! They sound less wierd and more like a dance act. I own Autobahn, Man Machine and Computer World... but remasters would be excellent. Luckily I've got a live recording of them to enjoy
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Old 22-06-2004, 1:41 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_nieto
I'd like to get the Kraftwerk remasters. I saw them live and their sound is so much better than the CDs! They sound less wierd and more like a dance act. I own Autobahn, Man Machine and Computer World... but remasters would be excellent. Luckily I've got a live recording of them to enjoy
I saw them live in Manchester. They were bloody great. A live DVD of one of their concerts from this years tour is supposed to be released in 5.1
That will be worth getting.
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Old 22-06-2004, 6:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOUNDSTYLE
Has anyone actually got the remastered Kraftwerk albums.
I'm thinking of getting them, but can you really hear that much of a difference?
Current CD re-mastering is STUNNING. Differences between re-masters and their original CD releases is like day and night in many instances. And we aren't talking subtle only-appreciated-by-the-trained-ear type differences. We're talking major differences - like upgrading your equipment.

Buy with confidence.
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Old 23-06-2004, 3:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I shall be on the lookout for them. I keep meaning to buy music DVDs, that's just added another to my list. I've got to buy Led Zeppelin, DJ Shadow Live @ Brixton and Kraftwerk now
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Old 03-07-2004, 1:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_pauley
Current CD re-mastering is STUNNING. Differences between re-masters and their original CD releases is like day and night in many instances. And we aren't talking subtle only-appreciated-by-the-trained-ear type differences. We're talking major differences - like upgrading your equipment.

Buy with confidence.
Like to know how you've heard them, considering they're not released until September
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Old 03-07-2004, 4:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Where did I say I'd heard them mate?

I'm talking about current CD mastering technology in general. Every single re-master I have bought - and it runs well into four figures - has been a dramatic improvement over the earlier CD versions.

Don't see any reason why the Kraftwerk reissues should be any exception, do you?
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Old 08-07-2004, 5:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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If they are going to do it, I'd rather have SACD remasters...
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Old 08-07-2004, 7:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Not worried either way. My CD and 2 channel amplifier have proven more than a match for the multi channel SACD / DVD-A kit I purchased. As long as it's a good re-master from the original studio multi-tracks I'll be happy.

Don't see why all re-mastered stuff doesn't come out on SACD hybrids anyway. Can still sell to CD buyers and satisfies the SACD punter at the same time. Also unlike DVD-A the format is portable, i.e. it can be played in your car, walkman, bedroom, kitchen, etc. And you don't have to turn on your telly to navigate the disc.

Also if the format doesn't take off you aren't left with unplayable discs.
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Old 08-07-2004, 9:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by the_pauley
My CD and 2 channel amplifier have proven more than a match for the multi channel SACD / DVD-A kit I purchased. As long as it's a good re-master from the original studio multi-tracks I'll be happy.
Have you tried listening to stereo SACD against CD on a hybrid disc (assuming your CD player isn't in a different league to your SACD player of course!). I personally REALLY prefer the sound of SACD over CD and DVD-A. Must be that mathematically imperfect DSD encoding or something!
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Old 09-07-2004, 1:51 AM   #15 (permalink)
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But the DSD encoding is not the sole domain of SACD. Both the CD and SACD layer use the DSD process.

And yes I have conducted a lot of testing over the past couple of weeks, using 2 channel as the main test criteria for A-B comparisons.

I should say straight off that every demo I have had of DVD-A and SACD, before I got my own player, has left me decidedly underwhelmed. I have heard several universal players and several dedicated audio players, including Marantz's new dedicated player, a brand that I rate very highly for digital reproduction.

However I decided I would not draw any conclusions till I could listen through my kit and do direct A-B comparisons with my CD player. Finally, a few weeks ago I took the plunge and bought a Pioneer 757i Universal player and a Pioneer AX5i AV amp. These were bought for home cinema purposes, but of course the hi-def audio capability was definitely anticipated.

I have a fair collection of SACDs that I had bought for the re-mastered CD layers, all of which sounded superb. On playing these in the Pioneer deck (connected via the i-link) I was still underwhelmed. Very sweet and clear and smooth, but no more so than on my CD player.

Listened to a wide range of two and multi channel discs, new and old from Miles Davis and the Stones, through to Nora Jones and The Snow Patrol. Played Diana Krall and Bob Dylan discs with subtle, mainly ambient, 5.1 mixes. The odd discreet tinkling from the rears apart, there was no more of a nice tangible 3D soundstage than one would get with a quality CD player. For the full bells and whistles surround experience I tried "Dark Side of the Moon". Much more obvious surround effects, but in terms of detail and resolution, no more impressive than the CD.

My Audiolab amplifier was having a new bank of phono sockets fitted at the time, so I decided to reserve judgement until I got it back and could plug the 757i directly into it and do a direct A/B stereo comparison with my Marantz CD player, a Ken Ishiwata customised edition.

When I got the amp back, myself and two fellow hi-fi anoraks armed with a huge pile of discs, sat down to a few afternoons and evenings of anorakish behaviour. I connected the analogue L-R outputs of the Marantz and the Pioneer into the Audiolab using Audioquest Topaz interconnects, a highly open and revealing cable in my experience.

Was also able to conduct A-B-C-D comparisons in several cases. Played Bob Dylan's "Blood on the Tracks" and The Stones "Let it Bleed" in original vinyl pressings, original CD versions, remastered CD layers and SACD layers. Between vinyl and original CD it was swings and roundabouts as it always has been, both having their strengths and weaknesses. The big difference came with the next comparison, the remastered CD sound. A revelation, putting both the original CD and vinyl firmly in the shade.

Vinyl purists can howl all they want in disagreement over this, but the reason is simple. The record companies are, in the main, making these new masters from the original multi track studio master tapes. These tapes contain the pure studio sound. A sound that is inevitably compromised by undergoing several levels of degradation by the very processes of equalization and compression required to make a vinyl disc. Digital discs do not need to go through these stages, so for the first time ever we are able to re-produce this "first generation" sound in the home environment. Even from master tapes over thirty years old!

However in the next stage, comparing the re-mastered CD layer to the SACD layer, the differences were barely, if at all, noticeable, but every time all three of us listening gave the edge to the CD player in terms of slightly more solidity and a sense of "architecture" to the soundstage. The much touted "sense of involvement" or immersiveness in the sound, attributed to SACD by many contributors to the forums, is nothing new to anyone who has been listening to a well configured CD system of even the most modest audiophile components.

Bought two DVD Audios specifically for demo purposes, "Yoshimi..." by The Flaming Lips, as it was recorded specifically with the format in mind, and "Pet Sounds" a marvellouslly produced album which I was eager to hear in a 5.1 mix. Both were albums I have on CD and know thoroughly, particularly "Pet Sounds" (original vinyl pressing, DMM vinyl, CD, HDCD re-master, 4 disc box set and now DVD-A - boy do I know that album!).

The Lips disc was initially the most obvious "wow" inducer, but only for the heavy reliance on surrounds. Again listening in 2 channel, fidelity wise it didn't seem any more revealing or impressive than the CD. Ultimately I grew tired of the constant and distracting sounds whizzing around the room, which seemed gimmicky and ultimately pointless and irritating. The 2 channel mix alowed one to concentrate better on the performance.

"Pet Sounds" was disappointing as I was expecting to get an insight into the dense production, akin to the revelation of the first stereo mix of the album, but the 5.1 track was mainly subtle ambience and was no more impressive than the superb HDCD remaster.

So I was left with mixed feelings. Pleased that I could still listen to my CD collection and I wouldn't be dissatisfied in comparison to hi-def, but disappointed in that I was expecting to be wowed by the new formats and wasn't.

I really wanted to be lifted to the next level in audio. I'm afraid I am the music industry's dream punter. Replaced the bulk of a huge vinyl collection on CD, then replaced a good 1,000+ of those same CDs over the past few years with the current generation of superbly remastered re-issues. so I was quite prepared to be seduced by new sonic heights and start upgrading everything to SACD.

No need to ...

and at the same time

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