Rentals.

[superpiper]

First of all i'm a complete idiot
But, I got to thinking which way to enter into HD world for films and i had a few random thoughts:::::

(My set up is a KDL40w200 TV and an old NSDV55 Player.
I needed a new tv (old one blew up) so i bought the best one i could find, hence the KDL40w2000)

I first thought of buying a sky HD box, but the expence and channel choice are for me prohibative. we dont watch sky movies or the sport channels enough to justify another £15/20 per month subscription.

I thought of replacing the video feed from the Pioneer with a upscaling dvd player, but i am not convinced of the logic here, my telly is made for 1080p feeds and a 1080p upscaling dvd player is both expensive and instantly out of date. Plus the picture quality is still SD so no point really to this idea

I do need a recorder of some type (sky hd box would be handy here), i thought of buying a stand alone HDD recorder. but again, i might as well buy a sky hd box and not use the HD subscription service until a decent channel line-up appears

I thought of buying a dvd recorder with HDMI 1080i upscaled output.
these seem cheap enough and gives me both a recorder and a decent upscaled(SD)video output. if the unit had a digital output for the pioneer,then this could be cheap short term solution

But a hd player is really the best solution and i was thinking a Blu ray/HDDVD
player with 1080p output would be great.
the prices for the players are sky high, the formats are in flux and are competing against each other, plus the units are near impossible to aquire.
so this is still not a great idea.


And thus i got thinking as to how this hd war will pan out. I remember last year our local xtravision gradually phasing out vhs. this took nearly 4 years from the first DVD's apearing in the shop. Because DVD was from the inception a stable and simple format for the customer. i bought a player ex demo from xtra vision and was very happy with it (still have it) xtra vision were selling off the dvd plyers they had bought to rent out to customers so that they could try DVD. This worked very well (rented it myself a few times)
and DVD was easilly accepted.
Very quickly, the DVDs disks matched the (old) price vhs cassettes cost as the Pricing delta's flipped from the existing fromat to the new DVD format.

DVD took of because the prices for players and disks were reasonable and
the Hire shops were keen to stock the more robust format.
Everyone's happy.

The new disk technologies are instantly hampered by the format war, meaning the hire shops will be stocking two types of disks for new movie rentals/ that is if they are willing to pay the high costs of purchasing disks.
For me these new formats will be made or broken in the hire shops.

i don't see the general public buying into it enough at the moment for the hire shops to start stocking films. i believe that DVD will be thier norm as long as disk technology is used. the rate of advance is such that internet or VOD may well break into the markets before these new disks make an impact
The formats and players are all over the place at the moment and joe public won't be swayed from his cash without the lure if HD films for hire.

Because without the hire shops stocking HD disks, whats the point, Sure a few nerds and money rich AVnuts may BUY films to watch, but the VAST majority will rent only.

So for me, this format or that doing this that or the other is irrelevent, i'm watching xtravision, when they start to hire out the latest films on HD ill bite the bullet and buy the required (combo) player.

Till then, i'm looking for a HDMI dvd recorder with digital out.

Ps. another thought, if the hire shops are sluggish to stock HD films, this lets SKY have a very good advantage! If sky can get enough HD units out and bring on-line PPV or VOD HD films, then what would be the point of a £550 player which will only play half of the limited film stock, when Sky movies (HD)
doesnt require a seperate player.

Mark my words, the rentals have the key to all of this.

Tim.

[Bachstrad]

Originally Posted by superpiper

Ps. another thought, if the hire shops are sluggish to stock HD films, this lets SKY have a very good advantage! If sky can get enough HD units out and bring on-line PPV or VOD HD films, then what would be the point of a £550 player which will only play half of the limited film stock, when Sky movies (HD)
doesnt require a seperate player.

Mark my words, the rentals have the key to all of this.

Tim.

That's a very good point!

Sky already have two HD PPV channels (SBO1 & 2 HD) as well as SM9HD & SM10HD as part of the HD package. Sky Anytime, the VOD service is also scheduled to kick off in March, as yet they haven't said what HD content will be available, but they do have 140gb available on the HD box to play with.

ATB

Max

[soup nazi]

I don't want to wait a year for sky to show ppv for new movies.
Rental shops on the high street are nearly dead at the moment,but you can rent hd online.

[Squirelly666]

Originally Posted by superpiper

Mark my words, the rentals have the key to all of this.

Tim.

In the last move of formats (VHS -> DVD) rental was the key, but lately the rental market has been slowly dying. The cheap price of retail DVD's, the lack of extras on a lot of rental only DVD's, and the necessarily high rental prices are causing a lot of headaches for the rental market and a lot of them are struggling. A lot of the smaller rental outlets are closing down, and even a big chain like Global has had to close down a lot of stores.

The biggest players in the rental market (blockbuster, choices) are mainly surviving on game rentals (lot more difference between retail and rental prices), and online rental schemes and I guess they will stay out of the HD market altogether in store, but may start renting HD/BR titles on their online offerings in due course.

I think retail disc prices, and player price/availability will be the key to this format war, and that there won't be a clear winner and we will be living with two HD formats for a long time.

[superpiper]

I did'nt know that the rental shops were struggling. good points.
I'd rather rent for €5 than buy for €30

I can't help thinking that removable digital media such as dvds etc will soon be outdated by portable digital devices. I would envivage that soon enough we may all be downloading media data or plugging in Portable data devices such as usb keys/Ipods etc into a local hole in the wall for all this.
Were already at the point where MP3 is becoming less and less a requirement.
Ive 30 odd albums on my Ipod in lossless format and have 2/3 capacity left.
I just can't seem to fill it.

[glenmus]

Originally Posted by superpiper

Mark my words, the rentals have the key to all of this.

That's why I went VHS ((during the war, as Uncle Albert would've said) - all of my local video hire shops were VHS. None were Betamax or Phillips 2000 (or whatever it was called).

[KelvinS1965]

I just visited my local 'Blockbuster' store today to pick up a few DVDs. While chatting to the assistant about their rental BlueRay discs, he told me that they won't be stocking HD DVD at all, for rental or sale. I don't know how reliable this source is, but he seemed genuine enough...has anyone else heard this or a contradictory statement?

I used Blockbuster to rent my first DVDs, back when they only had one shelf of them to choose from. I have been watching Blockbuster to see which (if any) way they went regarding this 'format war'. I figured that I'd rent more HD stuff given the bigger price difference from buying outright, plus I don't usually watch films more than once (well not until they are shown again on TV anyway).

Luckily for me my 32" TV is too small (or I sit too far away) to show any difference between HD and SD. Thankfully my PJ is one of the better (if not the best) ones at upscaling SD, so I can carry on enjoying 'ordinary' DVDs for a while longer. Maybe by the time the nights start drawing in again I can revisit this decision....or the dual format players might be out by then.

[Bald Monkey]

It's amazing how many people having been talking to their local Blockbusters manager...

I think another major plus for purchase against rental today, is that when places like ASDA are knocking out DVD's on day of release for under £10 renting for a couple of nights for £5 doesn't make much sense to me.... especially as it would require another journey... If it's not worth £10 then there are always other ways to watch it, like you say, Sky for example.

I do agree though that HD discs need to come down in price, which is why I'm still buying more SD than HD

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted by KelvinS1965

I just visited my local 'Blockbuster' store today to pick up a few DVDs. While chatting to the assistant about their rental BlueRay discs, he told me that they won't be stocking HD DVD at all, for rental or sale. I don't know how reliable this source is, but he seemed genuine enough...has anyone else heard this or a contradictory statement?

I used Blockbuster to rent my first DVDs, back when they only had one shelf of them to choose from. I have been watching Blockbuster to see which (if any) way they went regarding this 'format war'. I figured that I'd rent more HD stuff given the bigger price difference from buying outright, plus I don't usually watch films more than once (well not until they are shown again on TV anyway).

Luckily for me my 32" TV is too small (or I sit too far away) to show any difference between HD and SD. Thankfully my PJ is one of the better (if not the best) ones at upscaling SD, so I can carry on enjoying 'ordinary' DVDs for a while longer. Maybe by the time the nights start drawing in again I can revisit this decision....or the dual format players might be out by then.

I've read that Blockbuster in the U.S. has started hiring both formats, but it's really a function of the individual store and their perception of their local market. Online hiring outlets such as Netflix seems very popular for both SD and HD media (both formats) and many seem satisfied with that.

Seems like there is a clear split between people who prefer to own their titles, and those who prefer to hire and only buy special favorites. This includes those who prefer to hire before buying in order to check out the film.

I personally rarely hire a film, I usually investigate it online and purchase if it seems like a good choice. Course, I tend to be a collector by nature. I still mostly get SD films, preferrably used or well discounted.

Don't really know how DVD sales compare to DVD hires, but my impression is sales are quite healthy, with a lot of interest in TV programme season boxes. Once prices of HD titles get closer to SD DVD street prices, I expect their sales will both pickup and help pull players off the shelves.

PS. A friend had sound stuttering with his new HD DVD Van Helsing and I said to bring it over. He came over yesterday and I cleaned it and popped it into my player hooked up to a 4:3 36" CRT Sony 1080i display (equivalent 16:9 is about 33"). The stuttering was gone and the picture was VERY OBVIOUSLY HD and not SD. So if the difference is THAT apparent on 33" 16:9 at about 8ft, I would expect it to be noticable on anything larger than 27".

[low-def.]

So, on the subject of Blockbuster, I popped in today also and spoke to the person behind the counter about the blu ray discs.

He said that they were not renting many out at all, and many of the ones that were rented were brought back as people didn't realise they needed a PS3 or HD player to watch them.

[medicmanonet]

Hi all,

There are some HD DVD players around £250 (not £500) Toshiba E1 for instance. (OK it's not 1080p, but why pay so much more now? Wait 1 year and you'l get a better 1080p for this price).

Tesco (to name one) have both HD DVD and Blu-Ray disks online to rent. I think its around £4.50 for rental of 3 per month (one a t a time). They have 40 odd HD DVD's availible. There are many other rental firms online and you just use the post box to sent them back.

I am sure that whilst Sky HD do have HD movies, I am assuming that most are just upscaled SD. Now if I have a upscaling HD DVD player (Toshiba E1 for example). would I notice any 'significant' differance between Sky hD movie and an upscaled normal dvd played on the Toshiba? This saving around £18 month just for sky movies HD subscription. I think the top rental package is not even that much and you can have 3 dvds at a time.

Personnally, once there are many more HD/Blu-Ray disks available for rent (online) I think the HD formats will really take off.

[nstokes]

I know it has been posted alreay which means it must be true, but i went my my local blockbuster to rent some DVD's and i saw thwy had BR but no HD DVD and i asked them why this was. There reponse was "were trying to push the PS3 sales so we are stocking BR disks" they also said that there nt planning to stock HD DVD just yet.

[itsamac]

It's true about Blockbuster renting only Blu Ray discs and not HD-DVD. It is reported in this month's Home Cinema Choice.