1080p/60 '24fps' v. 1080p/50

[Dubliner1]

I recently purchased a UK copy of "The Reader" from Entertainment in Video...it is 1080p/50 but not '24fps'....the same version of the Bluray from Miramax in the U.S is 1080p/60 and '24fps'........can anyone explain the difference to me..I suspect the non- '24fps' UK version is inferior and am worried because as far as I know Entertainment in Video will be releasing The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy in the UK.

[200p]

Originally Posted by Dubliner1

I recently purchased a UK copy of "The Reader" from Entertainment in Video...it is 1080p/50 but not '24fps'....the same version of the Bluray from Miramax in the U.S is 1080p/60 and '24fps'........can anyone explain the difference to me..I suspect the non- '24fps' UK version is inferior and am worried because as far as I know Entertainment in Video will be releasing The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy in the UK.

Blu-ray is not capable of encoding/decoding 1080/50p or 1080/60p (though the players are capable of outputting a signal in those formats and many TVs can receive inputs in those formats).
So it would either be encoded as 1080/50i or 1080/60i (if encoded with 1080 lines at 50/60hz) and/or 1080/24p.

If "The Reader" was shot at 24fps, then the 24fps version would be the one that was the correct speed. Most films are shot 24fps so this is likely. Though if your TV isn't capable of receiving and displaying 24p signals your Blu-ray player might need to add 3:2 pull-down and output at 60hz so you'd get additional judder.

If the film had been shot at 25fps then the 1080/50i one would be the correct speed. It's very unlikely. I don't know of a list of which feature films were shot at 25fps (usually it's only European TV dramas etc. that are 25fps). Though this is a European film and some sites say that some European films are shot at 25fps to make it easier for when they are broadcast etc. Though I have no idea whether or not this was, but it's much more likely it was shot at 24fps.

If it was shot at 24fps but released at 1080/50i, it would have been sped up by around 4%. This is how most 24fps films are shown on European broadcasts. It might have had pitch correction done on the audio too. Though one good thing about it would be you wouldn't need a 24p capable TV (since only recently released TVs are), and you wouldn't get 3:2 pull-down judder like you would on USA broadcasts of 24fps films or 60hz output of 24fps films for when your TV doesn't accept 24fps.

[Dubliner1]

Originally Posted by 200p

Blu-ray is not capable of encoding/decoding 1080/50p or 1080/60p (though the players are capable of outputting a signal in those formats and many TVs can receive inputs in those formats).
So it would either be encoded as 1080/50i or 1080/60i (if encoded with 1080 lines at 50/60hz) and/or 1080/24p.

If "The Reader" was shot at 24fps, then the 24fps version would be the one that was the correct speed. Most films are shot 24fps so this is likely. Though if your TV isn't capable of receiving and displaying 24p signals your Blu-ray player might need to add 3:2 pull-down and output at 60hz so you'd get additional judder.

If the film had been shot at 25fps then the 1080/50i one would be the correct speed. It's very unlikely. I don't know of a list of which feature films were shot at 25fps (usually it's only European TV dramas etc. that are 25fps). Though this is a European film and some sites say that some European films are shot at 25fps to make it easier for when they are broadcast etc. Though I have no idea whether or not this was, but it's much more likely it was shot at 24fps.

If it was shot at 24fps but released at 1080/50i, it would have been sped up by around 4%. This is how most 24fps films are shown on European broadcasts. It might have had pitch correction done on the audio too. Though one good thing about it would be you wouldn't need a 24p capable TV (since only recently released TVs are), and you wouldn't get 3:2 pull-down judder like you would on USA broadcasts of 24fps films or 60hz output of 24fps films for when your TV doesn't accept 24fps.

Thanks for the detailed reply. A friend has the same movie but the Region 'A' version (U.S. release, 24fps) and the blue light on his Sony lights up indicating 24fps- whereas my indicator does not light up with the UK release on the very same model Blu-ray player. So the U.S version is 24fps and UK is not. Same for 'Bangkok Dangerous' (1080/50i in the UK).

[Rasczak]

Unfortunately the UK is at the mercy of EIV who seem to be quite content to give us 1080i/50 encodes rather than 1080p/24. It's particularly annoying and (allegedly) something they are going to rectify in the future.

[Dubliner1]

Originally Posted by Rasczak

Unfortunately the UK is at the mercy of EIV who seem to be quite content to give us 1080i/50 encodes rather than 1080p/24. It's particularly annoying and (allegedly) something they are going to rectify in the future.

Hopefully they will sort this out before Lord Of The Rings arrives.

[mjn]

Originally Posted by 200p

Blu-ray is not capable of encoding/decoding 1080/50p or 1080/60p (though the players are capable of outputting a signal in those formats and many TVs can receive inputs in those formats).
So it would either be encoded as 1080/50i or 1080/60i (if encoded with 1080 lines at 50/60hz) and/or 1080/24p.

If "The Reader" was shot at 24fps, then the 24fps version would be the one that was the correct speed. Most films are shot 24fps so this is likely. Though if your TV isn't capable of receiving and displaying 24p signals your Blu-ray player might need to add 3:2 pull-down and output at 60hz so you'd get additional judder.

If the film had been shot at 25fps then the 1080/50i one would be the correct speed. It's very unlikely. I don't know of a list of which feature films were shot at 25fps (usually it's only European TV dramas etc. that are 25fps). Though this is a European film and some sites say that some European films are shot at 25fps to make it easier for when they are broadcast etc. Though I have no idea whether or not this was, but it's much more likely it was shot at 24fps.

If it was shot at 24fps but released at 1080/50i, it would have been sped up by around 4%. This is how most 24fps films are shown on European broadcasts. It might have had pitch correction done on the audio too. Though one good thing about it would be you wouldn't need a 24p capable TV (since only recently released TVs are), and you wouldn't get 3:2 pull-down judder like you would on USA broadcasts of 24fps films or 60hz output of 24fps films for when your TV doesn't accept 24fps.

So whats the best way to display 1080/24 content, when your TV accepts 50-60hz?

[200p]

Originally Posted by mjn

So whats the best way to display 1080/24 content, when your TV accepts 50-60hz?

If your HDTV doesn't accept a 1080p24 source, you disable the 24p output in the Blu-ray player, and it will most likely output 24p content at 60hz.

By outputting it at 60hz you'll get 3:2 pull-down judder though.

If your TV doesn't accept 24p sources, I'm not sure if it's best to output 24p content at 1080/60p or 1080/60i. I'm sure I've read some posts say that outputting 24p content at 1080/60p "locks in" judder, and that outputting at 1080/60i is better (like it can somehow get the original 24fps frames back - there might be an option on the 60hz TV to automatically detect 24fps film footage if sent 1080/60i) - though I don't see how that could work as the TV is still outputting at 60fps - which isn't a multiple of 24 so surely would still have 3:2 pull-down judder. Hopefully somebody will explain how that works. If you have a 50/60hz TV you could try outputting at both 1080/60i and then 1080/60p and see if one is better on your TV.

[robcat101]

I think these discs are actually 1080p 25fps with interlacing flags i.e. will read as 1080i 50fps (just like PAL DVD's - most have the content encoded in a progessive format then simply interlaced by the player for analogue CRT's)

If you play EIV discs on a PC they often come up as 25fps. There are no interlacing artifacts.

I guess it depends whether a standalone player recognises this.

However if the TV correctly deinterlaces the 1080i 50 signal you will still get the correct image. The only thing that might suffer is the sound if the pitch has not been corrected.

[200p]

Originally Posted by robcat101

I think these discs are actually 1080p 25fps with interlacing flags i.e. will read as 1080i 50fps (just like PAL DVD's - most have the content encoded in a progessive format then simply interlaced by the player for analogue CRT's)

These are the Blu-ray specifications:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Do...2955-15269.pdf - see page 17.

1080p25 isn't in the Blu-ray spec, though 1920x1080/50i is.

Blu-ray is capable of the following HD resolutions/rates:
1920x1080/59.94i, 1920x1080/50i
1920x1080/24p, 1920x1080/23.976p

1440x1080/59.94i, 1440x1080/50i
1440x1080/24p, 1440x1080/23.976p

1280x720/59.94p, 1280x720/50p
1280x720/24p, 1280x720/23.976p

[robcat101]

Originally Posted by 200p

These are the Blu-ray specifications:
http://www.blu-raydisc.com/Assets/Do...2955-15269.pdf - see page 17.

1080p25 isn't in the Blu-ray spec, though 1920x1080/50i is.

Blu-ray is capable of the following HD resolutions/rates:
1920x1080/59.94i, 1920x1080/50i
1920x1080/24p, 1920x1080/23.976p

1440x1080/59.94i, 1440x1080/50i
1440x1080/24p, 1440x1080/23.976p

1280x720/59.94p, 1280x720/50p
1280x720/24p, 1280x720/23.976p

I mean I understand 1080i 50fps is effectively 1080p 25fps with interlacing flags to tell the player to create interlaced fields. If your software player ignores the flags on a 1080i50 stream it simply plays the 1080p25 stream with no interlacing artifacts - just as 576i50 PAL DVD video streams are often 576p25 streams with flags if you extract the mpeg stream from the DVD.

I guess the reason for EIV BR's being marked as 1080i50 is that they need to be in order to be within the above BR specifications. (Probably the masters need to be in the 50i/25p format in order to be used for European HDTV broadcasts as well)

[Dubliner1]

I thought 1920x1080/24p is the correct spec? This is how The Reader was released in the U.S. Bangkok Dangerous on blu-ray is also 1920x1080/24p in the U.S. but again, not in the U.K.... why are EIV dumbing down the specs?...

[robcat101]

Originally Posted by Dubliner1

I thought 1920x1080/24p is the correct spec? This is how The Reader was released in the U.S. Bangkok Dangerous on blu-ray is also 1920x1080/24p in the U.S. but again, not in the U.K.... why are EIV dumbing down the specs?...

I think the reason is (as above) EIV use a master that can also be used for HDTV broadcast which is 1080i50 in most european countries.

The point is that the right player will extract 1080p25 from these so other than potential pitch issues, the video is not dumbed down.

[Dubliner1]

Originally Posted by robcat101

I think the reason is (as above) EIV use a master that can also be used for HDTV broadcast which is 1080i50 in most european countries.

The point is that the right player will extract 1080p25 from these so other than potential pitch issues, the video is not dumbed down.

So is a 1080p60 24fps Blu-ray better or worse than a non-24fps 1080p25..? Sorry for the confusion!

[robcat101]

Originally Posted by Dubliner1

So is a 1080p60 24fps Blu-ray better or worse than a non-24fps 1080p25..? Sorry for the confusion!

It will be either 1080i60 with pulldown or 1080p24.

The difference between 1080p24 and 1080p25 will just be the run-time and potentially the pitch of the sound will be slighly high with 25fps.