AV Forums expresses concerns over R2 studio policies

[unique]

Originally Posted by sbowler

Totally agree with all the above comments, what can we do? well I suggest all forum members send emails to the aforementioned companies expressing there dismay at the situation, enough pressure and they may change.

how about operation mayhem?

send back your r2 discs of fightclub in disgust at not only the cuts (the studios should fight back against stupid censorship like headbuts on 18 rated discs when 15 rated discs can have thousands of people killed by bombs and machine guns) but the laziness in just removing commentries instead of spending a small amount of time re-editing them to fit cut material

worse is advertising material on discs that doesn't exist. batman commentry anyone?

something else i didnt mention, i understand and appreciate the long amount of time spent reviewing everything on a disc for an in depth review. especially if you have to review a crappy movie, or sit through a whole tv series. i certainly wouldn't like to do this, even if i got a free copy of the movie

and if the studios want to avoid piracy there are plenty things they can do apart from asking for review discs to be send back without 4 days, like close the gap between releases on other regions, and close the gap between cinema and dvd release. the only reason for a gap between theatrical and dvd release is to try and make more money. the longer the gap, the longer pirates have to capatilise on the sale of pirate material. if proper dvd quality official releases were available as an alternate to pirate copies, i'm sure most people would prefer to buy the legit discs. unfortunately it's going to take a long time for companies to realise this and do something about it

and shall we raise the subject of lost while we're at it? in the uk, half a season retails for £24.99 in most stores, whilst online you can get the whole season for £18 delivered, and watch the whole lot before part 2 of the season is released for another £24.99. the companies are taking the urine out of the customers, so they deserve all they get in return as far as i'm concerned. sort out the release schedules and sort out the prices, and don't rip off the uk. if we are paying more for our releases, we should get more in return, and get our products first, not the other way around

[Monster]

It will be interesting to see how this one pans out and whether they make a U-Turn on this ludicrous policy.

I hope others take the same stand as the AVF's.

[Fluffy-Bunny]

I'm with you guys.

Universal do nothing but annoy me with their DVD product range anyway, the way they cram a ton of material onto one single disk, and let the bitrate of the film suffer, the way they still use dual sided disks for "big releases" (Casino SE R1), shows that they want to skrimp and save every last dollar they can, even if it involves shortchanging the consumer in some way...

[shahedz]

thank you for the explanantion phil. fully behind you on this! keep up the good work much appreciated!

[Knyght_byte]

sadly im a bit of an impulse buyer myself, i tend to just pick up a film when i see it on the shelf...lol

however i do read the reviews of films i've ummed and ahhed about getting, and its nice the way reviews are laid out on here, magazine/paper based reviews are waaaay to flawed too often...lol

i live in Wembley, and theres a fairly thriving pirate market going on around various high streets, the police do crack down on them but they spring back up again........some of the people at my work sometimes buy them, when i asked them why, i couldnt believe the answer, it wasnt because they were cheaper (its a sales based office for the most part so they earn a reasonable whack and are young so no massive outgoings)....it was because they could see them quicker........OMG......thats what you did in school, rush in one day saying 'yeah man, i saw that film, yeah the one thats not out yet, yeah i got it on pirate...'......of course being a VHS pirate it was difficult to tell if it was a bad copy or just a snow scene in the dudley moore Santa Clause film....lol.....

but i just cant believe a bunch of mid-20 year olds actually still get a thrill out of the fact its because they get it sooner........and the funny bit is when they ask why dont i buy them, i tell them because i got a £10k cinema setup....they go nah man, these are like proper copies, real good quality.....i just laugh and walk off thinking u nob jockeys, if you didnt bother buying them pirate theres a small chance they'd be a quid or so cheaper for me and the honest folk!

anyhow, i hope this gets sorted so you guys can keep doing decent reviews in a fair amount of time :-)

[neilneil]

It never ceases to amaze me how the movie and record industry seem to keep shooting themselves in the foot in the name of combating piracy.
If they would just WAKE UP for one second and realise it's THEIR actions that stifle THEIR profits. And that they could beat piracy easily by getting of their fat lazy arses and actually producing quality products that stand up to comparison with the other releases and beat the pirate copies in every way. THEN, they will have beaten piracy.


-Neil

[Figment]

The stance these companies are now taking is actually encouraging piracy in my opinion not preventing it. I have to admit that in the past I have bought a couple of discs via ebay and although not described as copies the price and availability so near the release date made it fairly obvious that's what they were. But now thanks to these forums I have a nice home cinema set-up and read reviews of DVD's I am interested in and want the best quality possible. This is absolutely the best place for those companies to promote their products as I suspect 99.9% of other members feel the same and don't condone let alone take part in piracy. Isn't it fairly obvious to them that members of such a forum want the best source material not to mention the fact many avid collectors even buy the same film in all its subsequent release guises ? The good people who do the reviews indeed deserve a free copy and more besides for their sterling work.

[Antpink]

Totally agree with your position on this - it seems that the studios are once again not tackling the problem, but acting for the sake of feeling like they need to cause somebody some headaches, as if this will then improve the piracy problem.

Just to state one thing - pirated DVDs are big in Asia - a movie released in the US can sometimes be on the tables of the backstreet markets within a day of coming out, and sometimes even before. The copies are very good these days - gone are the days of camcorder-in-theatre in general (although I am sure these still exist) - with most of the copies being exactly per the Region 1 release, with all the correct surround sound, subtitles, extras etc, but minus any region coding - so a lot more sophisticated. Even the artwork is correct, but normallly a low quality print on non-glossy paper normally. And the cost - you'll love this - in Malaysia is 5 ringgit - or 1 Euro, for a DVD9 copy - which is a lot cheaper than I can even buy the blank discs for. How they are getting the original material of such quality is beyond me, but I am sure that if you were to review blind, in most cases the original and the pirate would be indistinguishable.

Personally I have never bought a pirate DVD, although have been sorely tempted, especially when I saw Batman Begins sitting in front of me weeks before the official release date in th cinema in Singapore. My reasons are simple - piracy is still theft, no matter how you look at it. Even if the studios are doing all the wrong things to combat it, at least we (joe public) can do our part by not supporting the activity - perhaps if we can get to a culture of original releases only, then the studios can remove some of the more annoying copy protection processes they are applying that make it infuriating for ordinary users to make legit copies for personal use. The war between the copiers and the studios will result in ever more complex data protection solutions that will impact us.

Sorry went a bit off topic there - way to go AVF for taking a strong position on the subject

[Thekop]

I'm with you guys also.. Phil is doing a brilliant job with the DVD reviews and who puts in so much time and effort..
It is valuable to home cinema enthusiasts like myself that just wants quality products and not wanting to be short changed with substandard releases.

[lapino]

One thing I want to add: piracy isn't always BAD for business too. I know it's a fine line, but I have found myself downloading screeners or games from the internet and after playing them for a while and seeing I enjoy it, I buy it. Simple as that.

There's also a problem with theatrical releases months before a movie is released in EU. Very tempting to download a DVD-copy from the net of a movie that is not coming out the next few months in the theatres here. It's not an excuse , but studios should really reconsider this.

I have about 500 *BOUGHT* dvd's in my house, some of them were downloaded in divx format before and after viewing the movie, I couldn't wait to get my hands on the official release.

I recently downloaded both Corpse Bride and Nightmare Before xmas because I heard good things about them. Watched the (perfect image quality I might add) divx on my plasma and the day after, I went to the store and bought both (well pre-ordered one, bought one). What does this mean? Well, if I hadn't downloaded the movie, I wouldn't know it was that good and I would NOT have bought it.

The movie industry is also shooting itself in the foot by (often) releasing very mediocre dvd releases (bad image quality, poor extras) making a downloadable (free) version in divx format very interesting. My DVD collection consists about 50% of special editions, boxsets etc, simply because I LOVE all the extra stuff, artwork etc, but they HAVE to make it worth it to buy. I recently also saw a DVD of Sin City and was VERY disappointed about the quality (being a great movie!!).

[Seth Gecko]

Originally Posted by lapino

One thing I want to add: piracy isn't always BAD for business too. I know it's a fine line, but I have found myself downloading screeners or games from the internet and after playing them for a while and seeing I enjoy it, I buy it. Simple as that.

But all the movies and games you download illegally that you DON'T like, you therefore don't buy and the movie/games studios have lost revenue - because you've just watched a movie or played a game for free, which you could have rented (that IS what they are there for after all).
Your arguement, I'm sorry, is not a valid one - you don't mind watching movies for free, but won't pay for the ones you don't like. Your stance proves piracy is bad for business - pure and simple - and to try and dress it up as honourable is unbelievable. Theft is theft - no matter how you try and make it look.

[unique]

something else worth mentioning is the high cost of dvd rentals from stores now. i've read that blockbusters and similar stores are getting hit hard as folks are paying £5 for copies from markets instead of paying £3 or more per night to rent a movie. so what do they do about this problem? increase the price of rentals to cover the loss of profits! faced with paying £3+ for a rental or £5 to keep a perfectly good copy to watch as many times as you want and pass on to your mates is pretty much sending the message out that a £5 copy is a bargain

similarly the theatres complain about loss of profits, but when a ticket costs over £5, a mum and dad with 2 kids has to pay about £20 in tickets, plus refreshments that are usually way overpriced, it's understandable why folk will buy a £5 copy from a market, particuarly when the quality of many of them is pretty near perfect in many cases, especially for movies that are released in the UK weeks or months after the US release, and the movie is released on R1 or there are dvd screeners available. for some of these big movies they hype them up for months on end, driving parents crazy with kids asking to see a movie thats not in the theatre, so you can imagine the temptation when they can get a perfectly watchable copy for £5 (i'm glad i don't have kids!)

at the same time as moaning about piracy, the movie studios still like to brag about busting box office records, and record profits made on certain movies. this just leads people into thinking that piracy doesn't hurt. some of the anti piracy campains are just a joke, the quality of many pirate dvds isn't as bad as they make out in most cases, particularly when screeners are involved, and as most pirates in the uk are just council estate chav's, everyone knows the money earned by piracy in the uk goes towards burberry caps and sovereign rings, and people laugh at claims that dvds sold at markets go to drug dealers and terrorists

as to the argument about paying £x on a system and being mad to play pirate copies, when the copies are the same quality as the originals as they can be, it wouldn't make any difference if you were playing the original or a copy picture wise or soundwise

the studios need to think about the issues more seriously and realistically and rethink the anti piracy strategy. think about better pricing, close the release gaps, particularly between UK and USA, realise we are not second class citzens and treat the customers better. perhaps the double dip can work, with a bare bones release available shortly after the theatrical run, plugging the gap where pirates can capitalise on an open market, sold at a competive pricepoint, £7.99 or less, so there isn't such a big gap between pirate price and retail. if the products were sold at more affordable prices, closer to the release date whilst the hype was still around, they could shift more units and perhaps make the same or greater profit. the fact that many titles are available at budget prices in stores like hmv and virgin shows that the companies are still making money selling at a low price. the only reason to sell at a higher price initially is to try and generate greater profits whilst they can, but the rise of piracy is showing that idea isn't so great after all

perhaps someone from the studios will read these comments and do something about it

[lapino]

Originally Posted by Seth Gecko

But all the movies and games you download illegally that you DON'T like, you therefore don't buy and the movie/games studios have lost revenue - because you've just watched a movie or played a game for free, which you could have rented (that IS what they are there for after all).
Your arguement, I'm sorry, is not a valid one - you don't mind watching movies for free, but won't pay for the ones you don't like. Your stance proves piracy is bad for business - pure and simple - and to try and dress it up as honourable is unbelievable. Theft is theft - no matter how you try and make it look.

That's an opinion. I can assure you that I've BOUGHT more stuff because I've liked it after downloading then I would've when I would NOT have found a way to 'check them out'. There's a reason why my wife sometimes complains I spend too much money on dvd's and games. I just want to make sure my money is well spent. If companies do not provide a means to do this (by giving out review copies, by supplying demos etc) then I (and a lot of other people) WILL find another way.

I do NOT condone piracy in any way if it's used purely to get things 'for free'. But sometimes it's a means to an end. About rentals: not all games have demo's or rentals so I can test them out.

[SCN_Saul]

fair and well judged post, am new to the game myself but understand your frustrations.

as an aside, apart from avforums, are there any online sites that offer a comparison between r1 and r2 dvd's?

im forever buying tv series on dvd (mainly american) but struggle to find info on audio, special features etc

thanks

[lapino]

One thing I want to add: some companies really need to consider some markets more seriously. I live in belgium and bought a R2 release of "The Abyss" a few months ago. What do I find? A pro logic (!!) soundtrack in english, with a very nice DTS (!) track in french!! Why? Because they simply refused to make a 'special' version for dutch-speaking countries, just releasing the same french DVD in our country with subs added. I was really ****** when I found out (I HATE dubbed movies). So I downloaded a nice divx release of the same movie on the internet, with ENGLISH AC3 sound and dutch subtitles. Does this make me a pirate causing the movie-firm losses? I don't think so! But I will think twice about ordering another dvd release from them...