[Fangorn]

Does anyone know if there are differences, also would there be a pal speed up issue?
Thanks in advance...

[Lex]

I don't know if there are any differences, but I am sure the speed up issue will not bother you - the difference (4%) is so minor that I think the whole debate is a complete red herring...

[unique]

Originally Posted by Lex

I don't know if there are any differences, but I am sure the speed up issue will not bother you - the difference (4%) is so minor that I think the whole debate is a complete red herring...

it's a half semitone in musical terms, and can be quite noticable on concerts and musicals. a half semitone is halfway between a white note and black note on a keyboard, halfway between A and b flat for example

on a technics 1200 dj turntable, the maximum pitch increase is 8%, so 4% as half as fast as a 1200 will speed up a record

a good example is to play some music in winamp and use a pitch changing plugin to change the speed/pitch and see how it affects music in that way

if record companies were to sell cds at a different speed and pitch, i'm sure people would complain when they found out, but somehow they get away with selling music dvds at the wrong speed and pitch

as for the U2 dvd, it was probably shot on video, thus shouldn't suffer from the speedup issue (but thats not a definate answer)

If it's shot on video, probably HD, then there won't be an issue. Also it is much closer to a semitone then a 1/4/ I used my 2 Buffy Musical dvd versions to test this. If a song was in C in NTSC, I played along fine. For the PAL version, I played along in dflat and it was VERY close. It is very noticeable to some people. I totally notice it but it does not bother me with films. A concert? Hmmm... I have the PAL R2 version of Flash Gordon and WOAH! Freddie was hitting some high notes inreality but sped up!
And I actually own 2 older Queen VHS concerts (Live in Budapest is one) where they were sped up approx. a 1/2 step, maybe to fit them on 90 minute tapes? I can hear it. But I do play music and teach guitar so...

[unique]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

If it's shot on video, probably HD, then there won't be an issue. Also it is much closer to a semitone then a 1/4/ I used my 2 Buffy Musical dvd versions to test this. If a song was in C in NTSC, I played along fine. For the PAL version, I played along in dflat and it was VERY close. It is very noticeable to some people. I totally notice it but it does not bother me with films. A concert? Hmmm... I have the PAL R2 version of Flash Gordon and WOAH! Freddie was hitting some high notes inreality but sped up!
And I actually own 2 older Queen VHS concerts (Live in Budapest is one) where they were sped up approx. a 1/2 step, maybe to fit them on 90 minute tapes? I can hear it. But I do play music and teach guitar so...

my bad - you are right, it is a semitone -

There is another effect associated with this speedup, an effect that is especially obvious to those with a well-developed musical ear: viz., the audio track of the film is playing 4% too fast, and thus 4% higher in pitch. From music theory we recall that one semitone in equal temperament is exactly 1/12 of the octave, i.e., 1/12 of doubling the frequency, i.e., the 12th root of 2, which is 2^(1/12) = 1.06, a result that is very close to the PAL speedup (1.04). In musical terms, PAL speedup therefore corresponds to a rise in pitch of approximately one semitone.

but anyway, i'm glad i'm not the only one who notices this. i noted in the late 80s when the prince concert movie sign o the times appeared on pal vhs, i - and many other fans, thought that the pitch increase was intentional as he did overdub and reshoot the live concert in the studio, and at that time he was experimenting with a speed up voice (about 8% or two semitones). i've also noticed the theme tunes of films shown on tv, and even as a kid, i always wondered how songs in movies on tv always sounded differently

it really annoys me when they release music dvds with this affliction as most fans must surely be able to notice that their favorite singer sounds different, and all the songs are in a different key

with movies it can also change the pacing of the movie, from comedy timing to dramatic pauses. it is hard to notice though, it's perhaps very hard to tell how much a change like this alters your preception of a movie. i wonder if you would notice if you lived a day running 4% faster

i got the new flash gordon to replace the old one, it's just a shame due to some dispute with rights or something that the movie won't be released on ntsc in a while. when upgrading to new super duper special editions i normally ensure i get the ntsc versions to replace the old pal copies. with long movies the running times can be several minutes longer on ntsc (casino, goodfellows, good/bad/ugly trilogy, etc)

i didn't know they would speed up concerts intentionally just to fit on a vhs though, thats pretty bad. live in budapest must have origination from video source, not film (i presume you mean the 80s gig - i'm not the biggest queen fan, but i appreciate the hits and have that dvd - unwatched!)

fortunately most music releases orginate from video so don't have this problem, but you have to check if it's older footage from 70s etc which may have been shot on film as this will suffer from the pal speedup

Hi Unique,

I'm curious. Since many of the Old Queen music videos like "Another One Bites the Dust" etc... were shot on film, do they actually speed it up for the PAL release? I have the R1 NTSC and it's definitely not.

[unique]

Originally Posted by Dave Mack

Hi Unique,

I'm curious. Since many of the Old Queen music videos like "Another One Bites the Dust" etc... were shot on film, do they actually speed it up for the PAL release? I have the R1 NTSC and it's definitely not.

i dunno, i've had the hits dvd for about 2 years now since it came out and i've never had it in the dvd player once. i'm pretty bad for buying music dvds and never actually watching them

what makes you think they were shot on film? and if shot on film, they could have been shot at 25fps. bohemian rhapsody was shot on video for example and i think that was the earliest video they did - the trailing effect was made by shooting a studio monitor

i know that in the 80s many promo videos were shot on film rather than video in order to retain a better quality after editing. of course back then they tended to spend comparitively more money on promos and single sales were much higher than today, and single sales were a greater part of promoting an album than today. i don't know much of the technical know how about these, and how they were transferred to video, ie. the framerate used.