[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by raduv1

Well I didn't think I'd have to explain it especially to you Batty is a victim of his programming and then devoloping emotions , Programmed to kill and survive without emotion . His a confused child emotionally .

And ok then Weyland's a good ol stick really I must of been watching another movie to get that impression of him. Even though he doesn't want to lose control of his company even to his daughter who wants him out the way.And yes he's a great guy hiding away while he let's his butler experiment on the crew.

Originally Posted by SimonH

I woudl say that is a far greater storyline than Weyland wanting to tak on some more life years, sure as heck is to me, I never for a moment viewed this film as Weyland really even being central to the storyline.

Weyland was no more of an arsehole than anyone else in the crew. Many people, given the opportunity, might want to talk to their 'creator' and ask for immortality/ life extension. The only difference is that he had the financial resources to make it happen.

But I agree with Simon, Weyland's arc was just that- a bid for more life. His motivations paid for the trip but were incidental to the main thrust of the plot. Do we know, for example, that Weyland was behind David's meddling with the black goo? I can't see why that would be of any benefit to Weyland. It's more likely to me that David was simply excercising his own curiosity and initiative. The motivations of the engineers are more of a mystery.

[liamt]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

Weyland was no more of an arsehole than anyone else in the crew. Many people, given the opportunity, might want to talk to their 'creator' and ask for immortality/ life extension. The only difference is that he had the financial resources to make it happen.

But I agree with Simon, Weyland's arc was just that- a bid for more life. His motivations paid for the trip but were incidental to the main thrust of the plot. Do we know, for example, that Weyland was behind David's meddling with the black goo? I can't see why that would be of any benefit to Weyland. It's more likely to me that David was simply excercising his own curiosity and initiative. The motivations of the engineers are more of a mystery.

didnt they initially think all the engineers were dead? so david gets the goo and realises it has potential.

[SkilledNutter]

Originally Posted by liamt

didnt they initially think all the engineers were dead? so david gets the goo and realises it has potential.

Another hole =

 

How do they know the Engineers are all dead when they do not explore the remaining structures? At least 4 more....

[liamt]

Originally Posted by SkilledNutter

Another hole =

 

How do they know the Engineers are all dead when they do not explore the remaining structures? At least 4 more....

i think they had done a scan and found no life... they did rush it though. its was like they did a quick scan, oh, nothing yet. why not try this goo on someone (who is a bit of a prat).

[Fmrl]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark70

I watched Alien last night... Even my wife said "I liked that film". Fabulous on blu... My old VHS tape was awful, the DVD ok'ish... But the blu! Wow could see detail that I'd never seen before.

I watched Alien on Bluray the day before I went to see Prometheus - big mistake

[Fmrl]

Originally Posted by SimonH

"I know lets set off for a 5 year deep space mission with no team training at all and half of us have no idea why or where we are going"

Thinking about it though, I wonder if all this was intentional on the part of Weyland - ie.assemble a crew of idiots and misfits so they won't question what's going on or possibly do anything logical or rational that might jeopardise the real mission?

[Fmrl]

Originally Posted by liamt

technically do we not have the ability to keep creating new cells when the old die off, its just that at some point they stop being created? i would imagine at some point we could stop this and basically allow us to not age. scary thought!

Technically none of us are older than 10 years - if you somehow managed to remove the cell regeneration block then this would just lead to more mutation - so you'd die of cancer, tumours, etc. rather than old age.

[caz2005]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

But I agree with Simon, Weyland's arc was just that- a bid for more life. His motivations paid for the trip but were incidental to the main thrust of the plot. Do we know, for example, that Weyland was behind David's meddling with the black goo? I can't see why that would be of any benefit to Weyland. It's more likely to me that David was simply excercising his own curiosity and initiative. The motivations of the engineers are more of a mystery.

Weyland briefly admits to Shaw that it was his doing. That's what he instructed David to do when telling him he had to "try harder".

On another note (and this isn't me claiming to know anything about Space travel) I know there's been some question as to the speed of Prometheus getting to the moon in just two years and that going faster than speed of light was a silly notion. I saw a Discover Channel Doc a while ago though where a guy stood and threw a tennis ball. Then whilst riding a bike threw the ball with the same force but because of the already forward mothion of the bike, the ball went faster and further. This proposed a theory that an object already moving at the speed of light propelling an object, the propelled object would travel faster than the speed of light. Phew, that was a b@%ch to type on my phone, lol. Any thoughts?

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by caz2005

On another note (and this isn't me claiming to know anything about Space travel) I know there's been some question as to the speed of Prometheus getting to the moon in just two years and that going faster than speed of light was a silly notion. I saw a Discover Channel Doc a while ago though where a guy stood and threw a tennis ball. Then whilst riding a bike threw the ball with the same force but because of the already forward mothion of the bike, the ball went faster and further. This proposed a theory that an object already moving at the speed of light propelling an object, the propelled object would travel faster than the speed of light. Phew, that was a b@%ch to type on my phone, lol. Any thoughts?

Nope

It's well understood according to general relativity that the speed of light is fixed and constant. Quite simply it is the speed limit of the universe. Space and time bend around it, so you can't simply 'go faster'. If you were at lightspeed (or infinately close to it) and you fired off a shuttle (also at near-lightspeed), the shuttle would not be travelling at twice the speed of light- it would simply be infinately closer to it. Or something like that

The only way to theoretically get around the speed of light is via a wormhole such as the Einstein-Rosen bridge- which connects two distant points in space-time. This of course is pure speculation and, in scifi terms, fantasy.

The fact that Prometheus is capable of travelling 35 light years in two years does not mean the ship can travel at 17.5 x the speed of light: it simply means the writers couldn't be arsed to explain the technology and/or assumed the audience wouldn't care.

[caz2005]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

Nope

It's well understood according to general relativity that the speed of light is fixed and constant. Quite simply it is the speed limit of the universe. Space and time bend around it, so you can't simply 'go faster'. If you were at lightspeed (or infinately close to it) and you fired off a shuttle (also at near-lightspeed), the shuttle would not be travelling at twice the speed of light- it would simply be infinately closer to it. Or something like that

The only way to theoretically get around the speed of light is via a wormhole such as the Einstein-Rosen bridge- which connects two distant points in space-time. This of course is pure speculation and, in scifi terms, fantasy.

The fact that Prometheus is capable of travelling 35 light years in two years does not mean the ship can travel at 17.5 x the speed of light: it simply means the writers couldn't be arsed to explain the technology and/or assumed the audience wouldn't care.

I suspect the writers just overlooked it. The sort of thing they didn't realise until hearing about it from folks like us on message boards. They probably don't care either though since it's done and dusted, nothing they can do about it now.

[raduv1]

Wow you guys really know how to take the fun out of a movie

According to the Lorentz Transformation a traveller going at 99.999 SPL 1 year would be 22.37 years to the observer.

Bit of a waste of time in Alien then because that refined mineral ore would of been outdated and useless on earth when it got back home ?

And in Aliens Ripleys daughter would of been dead long ago even if she hadn't spent 57 years floating around the core systems. Mummy's going to work honey be back when you dead


Won't be watching these again

[KiLLiNG-TiME]

Originally Posted by raduv1

Wow you guys really know how to take the fun out of a movie

According to the Lorentz Transformation a traveller going at 99.999 SPL 1 year would be 22.37 years to the observer.

Bit of a waste of time in Alien then because that refined mineral ore would of been outdated and useless on earth when it got back home ?

And in Aliens Ripleys daughter would of been dead long ago even if she hadn't spent 57 years floating around the core systems. Mummy's going to work honey be back when you dead


Won't be watching these again

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by raduv1

Wow you guys really know how to take the fun out of a movie

Won't be watching these again

See that you don't

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

See that you don't

Doesn't Answer the facts ? And i didn't pose the questions. Or is it that I loved Alien aliens' but didn't like Prometeus so lets not go into the science involved in them.

I didn't start this but what's bad for one film translates into a lot more movies.

[Jim Di Griz]

The assassination of prometheus here is making me smirk quite a bit I must say. Did any of you manage to enjoy the movie I wonder? And I thought I was a bit geeky! (a bit I hasten to add). Bet you all buy it on blu when it comes out...I know I will be! :-)

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

The assassination of prometheus here is making me smirk quite a bit I must say. Did any of you manage to enjoy the movie I wonder? And I thought I was a bit geeky! (a bit I hasten to add). Bet you all buy it on blu when it comes out...I know I will be! :-)

Yes I enjoyed it for what it was and will own the BD when released.

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by raduv1

Wow you guys really know how to take the fun out of a movie

According to the Lorentz Transformation a traveller going at 99.999 SPL 1 year would be 22.37 years to the observer.

Bit of a waste of time in Alien then because that refined mineral ore would of been outdated and useless on earth when it got back home ?

And in Aliens Ripleys daughter would of been dead long ago even if she hadn't spent 57 years floating around the core systems. Mummy's going to work honey be back when you dead


Won't be watching these again

Anyone ? Care to explain why I'm so wrong on this ? And I expect I am

[caz2005]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

The assassination of prometheus here is making me smirk quite a bit I must say. Did any of you manage to enjoy the movie I wonder? And I thought I was a bit geeky! (a bit I hasten to add). Bet you all buy it on blu when it comes out...I know I will be! :-)

Well, all I've ever done is discuss a movie that I actually really enjoyed despite its flaws which are also quite apparent. And yes, I will be buying it on BD.

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by caz2005

Well, all I've ever done is discuss a movie that I actually really enjoyed despite its flaws which are also quite apparent. And yes, I will be buying it on BD.

Well that's two of us we might get a sequel at this rate

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

The assassination of prometheus here is making me smirk quite a bit I must say. Did any of you manage to enjoy the movie I wonder? And I thought I was a bit geeky! (a bit I hasten to add). Bet you all buy it on blu when it comes out...I know I will be! :-)

I enjoyed parts of it. And I can acknowledge the movie's good points- I may or may not purchase the bluray based on that (it's gonna look & sound gorgeous on the format lets face it).

The reason why I'm such an unapologetically harsh critic of the film is that I am a fan of science fiction, and I respect science and good movie-making! Prometheus fell ruefully, pitifully short of what I would consider decent science fiction. And it was a poorly written and scripted film. Fact.

This would be forgiveable, if not for two things: Its a Ridely Scott film, and he can do better than this. Second, it's a film that promised us big-concept science fiction. What it delivered was half-baked, anti-science, theological, third rate hokum full of plot-holes and **** characters.

Disappointment, critical analysis, and a bit of ridicule, is the very least the film deserves.

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

I enjoyed parts of it. And I can acknowledge the movie's good points- I may or may not purchase the bluray based on that (it's gonna look & sound gorgeous on the format lets face it).

The reason why I'm such an unapologetically harsh critic of the film is that I am a fan of science fiction, and I respect science and good movie-making! Prometheus fell ruefully, pitifully short of what I would consider decent science fiction. And it was a poorly written and scripted film. Fact.

This would be forgiveable, if not for two things: Its a Ridely Scott film, and he can do better than this. Second, it's a film that promised us big-concept science fiction. What it delivered was half-baked, anti-science, theological, third rate hokum full of plot-holes and **** characters.

Disappointment, critical analysis, and a bit of ridicule, is the very least the film deserves.

I understand your resentment to some of the the science involved in this but for me and a good sized audience wasn't an issue. It was in fact science fiction and before you say it's based in the real world I know . This wasn't a problem for myself as it wasn't a problem in the rest of the Alien franchise. We see this as the Dawn of mankind but that's the problem as it's the Dawn Of life nothing more only we could see it as humans being the end result . So it's creating life end result question mark ?

It wasn't the big questions in this film that annoyed me but the actions of the crew ! This is what nearly made the movie unwhatchable for me. The only charecters actions that made any sense was Daves because he was programmed.

If you escape capture then perform surgery on yourself why does no one come after you and when you meet up with the crew why doesn't any one register your condition ?

And if your going to escape a crashing spaceship please run to the bloody side of it .

Not science but general issues that were jiggles for me.

[MarkyMark70]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

The assassination of prometheus here is making me smirk quite a bit I must say. Did any of you manage to enjoy the movie I wonder? And I thought I was a bit geeky! (a bit I hasten to add). Bet you all buy it on blu when it comes out...I know I will be! :-)

Nope... Didn't enjoy it at all. Totally pompous drivel, poorly written, very boring in parts. And yep, I'll take you up on your bet... Any price you'd like to name - I will NOT be buying on Blu or any format. If you gave me a copy, I'd have to give it back.

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by SimonH

The film tells us that Aliens created man, that's a pretty big deal in Sci-fi and one most folks would accept is the core of the story, that and their mission to now wipe man out because (according to Ridley) we crucified Jesus , who they sent as an emmisary.

I woudl say that is a far greater storyline than Weyland wanting to tak on some more life years, sure as heck is to me, I never for a moment viewed this film as Weyland really even being central to the storyline.

Sorry but the film tells us that engineers created life not man. Life not mankind and a small deal considering 14 billion years of the universe . Only mankind with our religious belief system would be so bold to accept us as a end result. And as for the Jesus take on it did you see that in the film or as an after thought by Ridley?

Sonwhat do we see in the film ? Archioligests finding a map from ancient man . A discovery not broadcasted on earth as the so called scientists would know why they were on this mission. Weyland with more money than god but only a man who only survives death by cryo to escape the grim reaper.

He bankrolls a mission to speak with his maker Now please he wants more and however you deem this film its all down to human greed wanting more . And as Weyland in some form or another has been in almost all the Alien franchise as the bad egg wouldnt you expect tge same from this . Other wise why would Ridley put Welyand in it ?

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by raduv1

Sorry but the film tells us that engineers created life not man. Life not mankind and a small deal considering 14 billion years of the universe .

No it doesn't. It doesn't 'tell' us anything at all. It implies that the engineers seeded life, somewhere, and it resulted in humans (somehow). None of it is explained to any degree of satisfaction. And since the engineers themselves are 'alive', they cannot be responsible for creating 'all life'.

Originally Posted by raduv1

So what do we see in the film ? Archioligests finding a map from ancient man . A discovery not broadcasted on earth as the so called scientists would know why they were on this mission. Weyland with more money than god but only a man who only survives death by cryo to escape the grim reaper.

He bankrolls a mission to speak with his maker Now please he wants more and however you deem this film its all down to human greed wanting more . And as Weyland in some form or another has been in almost all the Alien franchise as the bad egg wouldnt you expect tge same from this . Other wise why would Ridley put Welyand in it ?

Yep, another reason to detest the storyline. Not only is it anti-science, it is anti-human. It portrays humans as stupid, greedy, cowardly, and solipsistic. And yet, it is the engineers that are shown to be violent, murderous and capable of wanton genocide. Yet we come away with the impression that we 'deserve it'. How sick is that?

Religions thrive upon such self-hatred and unworthiness. Our gods are cruel and capable of obscene acts of violence and sadism- yet those same gods impose standards of morality upon us that cannot be met- thus keeping their followers in a perpetual state of servility.

[Jim Di Griz]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

No it doesn't. It doesn't 'tell' us anything at all. It implies that the engineers seeded life, somewhere, and it resulted in humans (somehow). None of it is explained to any degree of satisfaction. And since the engineers themselves are 'alive', they cannot be responsible for creating 'all life'.




Yep, another reason to detest the storyline. Not only is it anti-science, it is anti-human. It portrays humans as stupid, greedy, cowardly, and solipsistic. And yet, it is the engineers that are shown to be violent, murderous and capable of wanton genocide. Yet we come away with the impression that we 'deserve it'. How sick is that?

Religions thrive upon such self-hatred and unworthiness. Our gods are cruel and capable of obscene acts of violence and sadism- yet those same gods impose standards of morality upon us that cannot be met- thus keeping their followers in a perpetual state of servility.

Lucas - totally off-topic and not sci-fi at all but given what you've written above, you might find Agora interesting on a religion point of view. The blu-ray isnt cheap (not released in the UK/USA) but you could definitely pick up the DVD very cheap to see if you like it or not.

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

No it doesn't. It doesn't 'tell' us anything at all. It implies that the engineers seeded life, somewhere, and it resulted in humans (somehow). None of it is explained to any degree of satisfaction. And since the engineers themselves are 'alive', they cannot be responsible for creating 'all life'.




Yep, another reason to detest the storyline. Not only is it anti-science, it is anti-human. It portrays humans as stupid, greedy, cowardly, and solipsistic. And yet, it is the engineers that are shown to be violent, murderous and capable of wanton genocide. Yet we come away with the impression that we 'deserve it'. How sick is that?

Religions thrive upon such self-hatred and unworthiness. Our gods are cruel and capable of obscene acts of violence and sadism- yet those same gods impose standards of morality upon us that cannot be met- thus keeping their followers in a perpetual state of servility.

Thank you kind sir you've expressed my point much better than I When you go searching for your creator/God or whatever . What you find is disappointment ( for you the movie ) as it's only in the recent history of man that our god became a kind beneficial entity. Gods of the ancient world had all the same emotions of man so it would be that engineers would be capable of obscene acts as we see in the film.

They were not the God as Shaw sees them to be at the beginning of the movie but just like us . She expresses this epiphany " We were so wrong " as she went searching for her god expecting a New Testiment creator and found something not unlike us.

Needless to say I quite liked it and you didn't but great fun discussing it.

[lucasisking]

Originally Posted by raduv1

Thank you kind sir you've expressed my point much better than I When you go searching for your creator/God or whatever . What you find is disappointment ( for you the movie ) as it's only in the recent history of man that our god became a kind beneficial entity. Gods of the ancient world had all the same emotions of man so it would be that engineers would be capable of obscene acts as we see in the film.

They were not the God as Shaw sees them to be at the beginning of the movie but just like us . She expresses this epiphany " We were so wrong " as she went searching for her god expecting a New Testiment creator and found something not unlike us.

Needless to say I quite liked it and you didn't but great fun discussing it.

It's not as black & white as that. On a scale of 1-10, I rated it less highly than you did. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy several aspects of it. I just found the film's negatives insurmountable.

Off topic, but the New Testament God is just as cruel as the old. Eternal torture is not introduced until the appearance of Jesus...

[raduv1]

Originally Posted by lucasisking

It's not as black & white as that. On a scale of 1-10, I rated it less highly than you did. Doesn't mean I didn't enjoy several aspects of it. I just found the film's negatives insurmountable.

Off topic, but the New Testament God is just as cruel as the old. Eternal torture is not introduced until the appearance of Jesus...

Sorry mate not wanting to put words in your mouth. It was your negatives that I found good in this film strange as that might be.

And the New Testament god was just a reference to mankind finding hope and salvation. Bit like this as the last item in Pandoras jar was hope which is in the Prometheus myth.

[barnaby jones]

Originally Posted by Jim Di Griz

The assassination of prometheus here is making me smirk quite a bit I must say. Did any of you manage to enjoy the movie I wonder? And I thought I was a bit geeky! (a bit I hasten to add). Bet you all buy it on blu when it comes out...I know I will be! :-)

I enjoyed it, seen it twice and will certainly be purchasing the blu ray.

[SimonH]

Originally Posted by raduv1

Sorry but the film tells us that engineers created life not man. ?

No need to apologise.

Doesn't make any odds either way.

The point somebody / you ? was making was that Weyland was the big deal in this, the point I was making that actually the big thread in this film was an alien life form created life / man. As a sci-fi film, that's the big deal, not a dude who wanted to extend his bus pass.