[AFC69]

I'm looking at buying a 5 month old Ford Focus from a local Arnold Clark garage. He seems to be able to knock out cars a lot cheaper than other garages around, but I'm just wandering if anybody has any experience of buying from them?

Is he able to do this because he takes cars in, gives them a quick wask then sticks them back on the forecourt - ie, no proper valet, which I suppose saves on his staff costs?

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by AFC69

I'm looking at buying a 5 month old Ford Focus from a local Arnold Clark garage. He seems to be able to knock out cars a lot cheaper than other garages around, but I'm just wandering if anybody has any experience of buying from them?

Is he able to do this because he takes cars in, gives them a quick wask then sticks them back on the forecourt - ie, no proper valet, which I suppose saves on his staff costs?

Er...wouldn't it be because Arnold Clark are massive and have buying power the others haven't?
They seem to work on the 'high volume, low profit' scenario, which is good for the consumer.
Hundreds of people must buy cars from AC every week.
I'm sure there are horror stories, but I'm also sure the majority are happy.
I certainly don't believe there's anything wrong with their cars.

[AFC69]

Just asking a simple question mate, no need for the sarcastic "Er".

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by AFC69

Just asking a simple question mate, no need for the sarcastic "Er".

No offence, I was just a bit stunned that you don't appear to know AC are massive and would therefore have a good reason to be able to offer cars cheaper.

[AFC69]

I know how massive they are, having already bought a BMW from them in January.

I just wander if any other viewers have any good or bad experiences with them. £10,988 for a 5 month old 3000 mile Focus, ie £4k under list price, is a heck of a good price. I just wander is some corners were getting cut along the way, as my BMW wasn't exactly presented to me in the way a BMW franchise would have, ie no waxing, wheels dirty etc etc.

Of course, doesn't really bother me that there is no proper valet if you are saving a good few bob, but I just wander what else is missed. That BMW I bought was 6 months old, and had millions of leaves sitting under the bonnet, so they hadn't even lifted the bonnet!

[Billo]

Arnold Clark in Scotland have had a bad reputation. They are massive now with sites everywhere. I have always been suspicious of cars less than 3 years old, or have remaining warranty,which are not still in the dealer franchises* it it possible that they are not up to standard and would show the dealership in a bad light?


* I fully accept that this could just be a quirk of mine

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by AFC69

£10,988 for a 5 month old 3000 mile Focus, ie £4k under list price, is a heck of a good price.

For deals like this, a mate in the trade explained how it's (often) done.
Basically, Ford (or whoever) will 'give' new cars to staff to run around in for a few months.
I believe it artificially massages their sales figures.
Then the cars are released to the trade at favourable prices.
If AC commit to buying dozens, they'll get even better prices.
We bought a nearly-new, low mileage Honda HRV from a Honda dealer via this method.
We were classed as the second owner, but the first owner was listed as Honda UK, not a person.
So Honda had effectively 'sold' the car to themselves, then onto me.
I didn't mind being the second owner, for the money saved.

[AFC69]

Salesman told me on sunday that the cars were already Arnold Clark cars, which I'm wandering means they were in their hire division, or maybe they are, as you say, salemen's cars.

There are 4 of them, all Zetecs, and being delivered up here at the weekend, one of which I've put a £300 deposit on, so if I don't like the look of one, (kerbed alloys, small dents etc) then hopefully one of the other 3 will be okay.

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by AFC69

There are 4 of them, all Zetecs, and being delivered up here at the weekend, one of which I've put a £300 deposit on, so if I don't like the look of one, (kerbed alloys, small dents etc) then hopefully one of the other 3 will be okay.

My mother bought a Micra from them in this manner.
It was good fun picking a car from the group of cars available.
We picked the one with the lowest mileage and the tidiest interior, then I went around picking the best wheel trims off all the other cars there.
So she ended up with the mintest car in the group.
You could do the same;

"I want that one, but with the alloys off that one"

[AFC69]

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

My mother bought a Micra from them in this

"I want that one, but with the alloys off that one"

A very good point, which I will do.

Excellent responses to this thread.

[gken74]

As already mentioned Arnold Clark have a terrible reputation here in Scotland and there was even websites set up like arnoldclarksucks.com etc that had thousands not hundreds but thousands to people posting what had happened to them.

Luckily I ready quite a few of these reviews before I was due to arrange payment for a 2 year old 2nd hand car so only lost the deposit. Part of the reason I looked up the reviews was the sale guy was a ****** and I'd asked for several issues with the car to be fixed after paying a deposit and have them sorted for when we'd collect the car 10 days later only to find the it had another 940 miles on the clock none of the issues had been fixed and there was even a new issue with the electric windows in the front.

The sales guy point blank denied the mileage change and that there was even an issue with the windows or that he'd agreed to fix the other issues when we went to collect it and pay the 10k but I'd written everything down as we discussed it and when I showed him the list he was rather embarrassed as he'd even written a couple of points on it for me

So we walked away....thankfully!

Turns out the car was an X-hire car like most of there newly new cars for sale and we all know how people treat hire cars

[FZR400RRSP]

Originally Posted by gken74

Turns out the car was an X-hire car like most of there newly new cars for sale and we all know how people treat hire cars

Did you have any proof of this?
If the OP is worried about this, ask to see the V5 for the previous owner details.

EDIT
A quick google search says a company called 'HHFS' may be mentioned on the V5 as the previous owner.
HHFS are a company who finance rental and lease cars.
Needn't mean it's an ex-rental car per se, could be ex-lease.

Forewarned is forearmed.

[gken74]

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

Did you have any proof of this?
If the OP is worried about this, ask to see the V5 for the previous owner details.

EDIT
A quick google search says a company called 'HHFS' may be mentioned on the V5 as the previous owner.
HHFS are a company who finance rental and lease cars.
Needn't mean it's an ex-rental car per se, could be ex-lease.

Forewarned is forearmed.

Yeah the V5 had a abbreviated company name that I didn't recognised but I never thought to as as this was when we paid the deposit so I'd no reason to worry at that point.

About 3 years after that we ended up trading our old Saab 95 2.3T Estate in at Arnold Clark (not through choice but that's another story) and my wife got a Pug 307 and again it was an Ex-hire car but was in decent condition.

I'd avoid AC if I could, Motorpoint do much better deals but most of the cars are grey imports.

[A.I.]

Originally Posted by gken74

Turns out the car was an X-hire car like most of there newly new cars for sale and we all know how people treat hire cars

Would you treat a hire car like it wasn't your own?

Most decent people will look after a hire car very well in my experience. They are usually regular people who cannot afford to run a car 365 days a year or have a smaller car not suited towards their intended longer holiday drive.

Private owners don't check their water and oil levels and clean their cars inside and outside 'every day'.

I would recommend any friend to purchase an ex hire car every time. But then again maybe I know what I'm talking about.

A loyal Arnold Clark employee.

[Miss Chief]

It's often said the fastest car on the motorway isn't yours. In other words it's a hire car or a company car because either way you're not really responsible for the upkeep of it so will treat it like crap.

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by Miss Chief

It's often said the fastest car on the motorway isn't yours. In other words it's a hire car or a company car because either way you're not really responsible for the upkeep of it so will treat it like crap.

Ive seen this before. There was a 1.2 Corsa doing 80+ in the outside lane. I noticed the little Enterprise sticker as it went past.

[A.I.]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

Ive seen this before. There was a 1.2 Corsa doing 80+ in the outside lane. I noticed the little Enterprise sticker as it went past.

Most modern cars these days are very capable of driving over 70 mph without damaging the cars life expectancy. But - maybe the passengers longevity!

Have you never driven over 80 mph in your driving history - honestly?

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by A.I.

Most modern cars these days are very capable of driving over 70 mph without damaging the cars life expectancy. But - maybe the passengers longevity!

Have you never driven over 80 mph in your driving history - honestly?

Im not saying I haven't, how you think I measured the 80+?

The way it was being hurtled along, certaintly isn't how you see most Cosras being driving.

[A.I.]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

Ive seen this before. There was a 1.2 Corsa doing 80+ in the outside lane. I noticed the little Enterprise sticker as it went past.

Originally Posted by qwerty321

Im not saying I haven't, how you think I measured the 80+?

The way it was being hurtled along, certaintly isn't how you see most Cosras being driving.

Ah! Good point.

I'm from Glasgow and Corsa's (Wham Boyz R'us) do regularly get driven like that.

Just joking - 'I Belong to Glesga, Dear Old Glesga Toon!'

[thefamoushoops]

I've bought a few cars over the years from AC (it's hard NOT to buy from them in Scotland) and I've not had any problems with them.

As was posted earlier there are some horror stories but I've not had any hassle.

I bought my current car, a Citroen C4 VTR+, from AC and it was 6 months old with 6,000 on the clock.

According to the V5 it was ex rental and it has been a great car and I saved thousands of pounds on the new price.

[Ron240]

As already said, there are many horror stories to be heard from Arnold Shark, and they dont have the best of reputations in Scotland. Not sure whether this is true or not, but i was told they recently paid a website devoted to bad customer experiences, to shut down.
Balance this out with the fact that they are Europe's biggest independant dealer, then there has to be a lot of bad stories...its the nature of the business.

Some personal experiences i know about -
I went with my dad to look at a brand new Civic in June 08....was a 1.4 SE+ model, looked beautiful so he done a deal to buy it. He picked it up just over a week later, drove it straight down the road(2 miles)and into his garage. The next morning when he opened his garage, he could see 2 deep gouges on the right hand corner of the rear bumper, so he immediately phoned the dealer.
They said they were not aware of any damage being there when my dad picked the car up, and implied that he might have done the damage himself, but told him to bring the car in and they would look at it.
Now...under the circumstances, it was completely obvious that the damage must have been there when he picked the car up, and after some deliberation on the dealers part, they agreed to fix it free of charge.
An important point to note on this, with the benefit of hindsight....when my dad picked the car up, it was parked in such a way that walking round the back of the car was impossible.
I told this story to a friend who is ex-motor trade with many years experience, and he said that this sort of thing is not uncommon - in certain circumstances, dealers will be aware of damage, but hope the customer does not spot it until its too late.

When my dad took the car back to the same dealer for its first service....he gets a phone call from them later in the afternoon - they have had an accident and have damaged the rear bumper! They reversed into something and was going to require a whole new bumper. To their credit, they collected and returned the car the following week, and the service was free of charge.

A friend bought a 1 year old Focus 1.6LX from the same dealer. The car had to be recovered a couple of days later..it needed a new water pump. The problem took weeks to be rectified due to Arnold Shark arguing with the local Ford garage as to who should pay for the repair. They wanted it to be a Ford warranty claim, but Ford refused. Then a couple of months later, there was a noise coming from the back wheel....so my friend took it back to the dealer, who said there was nothing wrong. When he asked about the loud noise, he was told the mechanic test drove it and it was only "wind noise"
They refused to do anything about it, so my friend to it to a local fast fit outlet, who immediately said it was the wheel hub that was at fault...cost £200 + to fix.
He got back to Arnold Clark and told them what the problem was, but they still refused to do anything about it, saying it was a wear and tear part.
So much for "wind noise" then.

[PulsarPilot]

Originally Posted by A.I.

Would you treat a hire car like it wasn't your own?

Most decent people will look after a hire car very well in my experience. They are usually regular people who cannot afford to run a car 365 days a year or have a smaller car not suited towards their intended longer holiday drive.

A loyal Arnold Clark employee.

Absolutley no offence intended, but you really cant say that most people look after hire cars well. Whilst the managers at my firm for example may well drive sensibly, as I do, I've seen and heard plenty of stories of people who think its funny to 'rag the balls' off a hire car. Wheelspins, handbrake turns, high revs, all sorts of stuff. I would treat a hire car well, as I'm sure you would, but there are plenty of people who wouldnt I'm afraid.
As for the OP's question;

By coincidence, I was browsing a Saab forum (Saabscene) yesterday, and came across a thread about AC. It went along the lines of a local garage that used to have a good reputation, but was bought by AC, and customer service went downhill badly (the poster knew someone who worked there or something). Very vague I know, but it stuck in my mind for some reason.

[jendo]

I used to work for a car hire firm years ago and can confirm that anyone that thinks a car hire car is well looked after is delusional. Sorry no offence intended.

[DVD-Man]

My 2p.

I've came across a select band of people that when there car is suffering from problems or they are told by mechanics that something big is on it's way out, their idea to cure it is to trade it in!

So given AC are everywhere they are bound to get hit with some on the surface fine cars.

Car is traded in, sales push the new car as much as possible, owner drives off, trade in goesa round the back, is valeted and pushed out the front to sit.

Enter stage left punter no 1, buys traded in car, drives to England and the engine falls out, the dealer is immediately the biggest waste of space ever! yeah it'll be warranted and some will argue it should have been checked over but garages making a profit will do as little as possible to a car before selling it.

This is what some of the horror stories I believe stem from and this affects all dealers not just AC.


Liam

[AFC69]

Just as a quick update guys, still waiting for the car to arrive in Aberdeen, depite putting down the deposit last weekend. The salesman says they have no control over the delivery of cars that they buy in from within the Arnold Clark group, so I suppose I have to take them at their word, but do find that a bit weird.

One of the 4 Zetecs did arrive but was sold almost instantly. As it was the same mileage as the one I have put a deposit on, I'd have hoped they could have called me and given me first choice on it but obvioulsy not.

Will give it till midweek and start making noises if still no sign of it.

[gken74]

Originally Posted by A.I.

Would you treat a hire car like it wasn't your own?

Most decent people will look after a hire car very well in my experience. They are usually regular people who cannot afford to run a car 365 days a year or have a smaller car not suited towards their intended longer holiday drive.

Private owners don't check their water and oil levels and clean their cars inside and outside 'every day'.

I would recommend any friend to purchase an ex hire car every time. But then again maybe I know what I'm talking about.

A loyal Arnold Clark employee.

Your not a saleman by any chance are you Since you claim to know what your talking about would you care to comment on the other Arnold Clark websites with all the complaints?

Or are you not aware of such a thing.............the AC sales guys I spoke to never ever seemed to have heard of it but yet an AC mechanic had. All at the Mount Vernon site

[AFC69]

Car arrived yesterday, so went over this morning to check it out, albeit in the p1ssing rain. However, can't fault it, certainly no dents on it and no scratches that I could make out.

Will give it a 2nd going over when I go back to pick it up before handing over my readies, but all in all it's looking good for Arnold!

[A.I.]

Originally Posted by gken74

Your not a saleman by any chance are you Since you claim to know what your talking about would you care to comment on the other Arnold Clark websites with all the complaints?

Or are you not aware of such a thing.............the AC sales guys I spoke to never ever seemed to have heard of it but yet an AC mechanic had. All at the Mount Vernon site

If you look for a forum on a particular subject or Google 'Not happy with my Whirlpool washing machine' or whatever you will always find someone with an axe to grind. Their motives are sometimes dubious and their words often exaggerated. You have to take a balanced opinion.

AC sells thousands of cars every week. Any business that handles those volumes will always have instances where the customer is either not 100% happy or has unrealistic expectations of what constitutes 'used' condition.

For every person who goes on line to grind their axe in the manner that some do there are many more who are quietly delighted with their purchase living their lives.

I am not sure but it may be that the individual who started the 'hate site' and some of their posters were verging on being slanderous and were lucky to get away with just having their site shut down.

[DVD-Man]

Originally Posted by A.I.

If you look for a forum on a particular subject or Google 'Not happy with my Whirlpool washing machine' or whatever you will always find someone with an axe to grind. Their motives are sometimes dubious and their words often exaggerated. You have to take a balanced opinion.

+1

Brit especially can only complain about stuff, wonder how the net would look if we praised everything we actually liked!

Liam

[AFC69]

Just to put the lid on this as far as I'm concerned,it. Got the car yesterday lunchtime and was presented to me in showroom condition which I didn't expect, and financially I can't complain at all (although of course Arnold will be happy too)

So, despite initial trepidation, 9.5/10. (take half a point away as there are two light scratches on the bonnet but that's my fault for not seeing them beforehand, and Colour Magic will soon sort that out.