[NewBeetle]

I am shopping around for a scrappage deal for new supermini. The trade value of my car is only about £500 and it has many faults so a private sale is out of the question. Started looking around a while ago but really seriously looking now as I can do the deal from 05/12.

I have always owned VAG group cars but am trying to enter the market with an open mind So far I have looked at/tried the following:

1: New Model VW Polo, Lovely design, materials, quality feel and will hold its money best. Offered £2600 scrappage on mid range model which makes it around £10K (3dr Moda 70 aircon). Gutless 3cylinder engine is putting me off.

2: New fiesta, felt very cheap after the new polo but drove well enough. Prices about the same as Polo, better engine but cheap feel and rattled like mad on test drive.

3: Peugeot 207, nasty walked away without even test driving

4: Vauxhall Corsa, as Peugeot 207

5: Mazda 2, quite liked this but its a bit flimsy feeling due to weight loss they have done on it, looks a bit feminine too

6: Suzuki Swift. Well what a pleasant surprise just drove this today. 1.5 GLX with a/c, keyless, alloys, fogs etc is only £8200 on scrappage (compared to £10,000ish for both Polo and Fiesta. Plastics were not as nice as polo but easily as good as the fiesta but felt well made enough with no signs of rattles etc. I test drove the 1.3 which was a much better engine than the 1.4 in the Fiesta and the 1.2 in the polo.


So as the search continues the Suzuki Swift seems to have taken the lead, anyone got one? Care to comment? Offer alternatives if you can. The only reason I am not looking at the Alfa Mio and the Fiat 500 is I think these have a much smaller boot which I kinda need for work stuff.

[davidwatsonok]

The obvious choices would be the stylish Fiat 500 and the iconic Mini, but the Swift is a good and cool little car. I do like the new Fiesta, and the Mazda 2 is the same car underneath so look at spec to see which is better for you. My experience of French cars has been stereotypical, with flimsy build leading to lots of problems so you are probably right to dismiss those. Similarly I've never been anything less than completely under-whelmed and irritated by every Vauxhaul I've ever driven. The brand new (17 miles on clock) one I was leased for a couple of days was worse to drive than the previous shape and was slipping its clutch from new. The old one I ran for 7 months was awful, and that's being kind. If you like your VAG cars then have a look at the Seat Ibiza, or go slightly bigger into the Leon for VW build and spec but a few £k cheaper. I could also say try the Skoda Fabia but the current design is dire IMHO. Good car, just too 'old person' in its styling.

[NewBeetle]

Originally Posted by davidwatsonok

The obvious choices would be the stylish Fiat 500 and the iconic Mini, but the Swift is a good and cool little car. I do like the new Fiesta, and the Mazda 2 is the same car underneath so look at spec to see which is better for you. My experience of French cars has been stereotypical, with flimsy build leading to lots of problems so you are probably right to dismiss those. Similarly I've never been anything less than completely under-whelmed and irritated by every Vauxhaul I've ever driven. The brand new (17 miles on clock) one I was leased for a couple of days was worse to drive than the previous shape and was slipping its clutch from new. The old one I ran for 7 months was awful, and that's being kind. If you like your VAG cars then have a look at the Seat Ibiza, or go slightly bigger into the Leon for VW build and spec but a few £k cheaper. I could also say try the Skoda Fabia but the current design is dire IMHO. Good car, just too 'old person' in its styling.

Fiat 500 and Mini have no boot though. Leon is a bit out of budget and the Ibiza although nice has the same problems with old underpowered engines as the new Polo.

[davidwatsonok]

With small cars I feel the way to go is diesel, and aim for the 1.9-2.0 if you can. After purchase splash a few quid on a remap to liberate some more poke. I run a Fabia vRS which is quite startling mid-range, almost as quick as many Impreza's 30-70, but still gets 55+mpg out of the old 1.9 PD engine map'd to 180/312. Driven with car I can still get 60+.

Forgot the Alfa Mito too.

I'm assuming you're looking at £10k max after a presumed £2k or so scrapage ????

[NewBeetle]

Originally Posted by davidwatsonok

With small cars I feel the way to go is diesel, and aim for the 1.9-2.0 if you can. After purchase splash a few quid on a remap to liberate some more poke. I run a Fabia vRS which is quite startling mid-range, almost as quick as many Impreza's 30-70, but still gets 55+mpg out of the old 1.9 PD engine map'd to 180/312. Driven with car I can still get 60+.

Forgot the Alfa Mito too.

I'm assuming you're looking at £10k max after a presumed £2k or so scrapage ????

Yeah pretty much in the £7-10k bracket after scrappage. Not a big fan of diesel and I don't do enough mileage a year to make the initial extra cost worth it. (7000miles per year)

Can't quite bring myself to go for the Hyundai i30 for £7995 even though everyone says its the best value scrappage deal available.

[davidwatsonok]

I never thought I'd drive diesel, especially coming from a background of Subaru's, but the mid-range poke in modern TD's is amazing, allied to good economy I can't see me buying another petrol except for a limited use toy (cheap Scoob or Caterham/Westfield type track car).

If we're looking at Hyundai, what about the Kia Cee'd ?

[NewBeetle]

Originally Posted by davidwatsonok

If we're looking at Hyundai, what about the Kia Cee'd ?

Can't do it, even though I can see the value staring at me in the face

[jenic]

I'd consider something different.

How about the renaultsport twingo 133 cup, can be had for £9999 if you shop around, less your £2K scrappage.

2009 RENAULT TWINGO 1.6 litre RS 133 CUP

Black and white pack is a must though for £150!

[NewBeetle]

Originally Posted by jenic

I'd consider something different.

How about the renaultsport twingo 133 cup, can be had for £9999 if you shop around, less your £2K scrappage.

2009 RENAULT TWINGO 1.6 litre RS 133 CUP

Black and white pack is a must though for £150!

Looks a lot of fun, but couldn't buy french Also twingo has a tiny boot ala fiat 500 etc doesn't it?

[davidwatsonok]

Originally Posted by NewBeetle

Can't do it, even though I can see the value staring at me in the face

I don't think they're a bad looking car. Not read up on what they're like to drive, but with a 7yr warranty they should be bolted together well enough.

[dan54]

Yaris or Jazz? Not my cup of tea but thought I'd throw them in the mix.

[jenic]

Originally Posted by NewBeetle

Looks a lot of fun, but couldn't buy french Also twingo has a tiny boot ala fiat 500 etc doesn't it?

The twingo is based on the mk2 clio, which is 11 years old. Reliability issues shouldn't be too bad since its a well developed little car.

Boot space is a bit on the small side but has more usable space than a 500 imo.

The only bad points are the gearbox and the fact that it will have rattles, and wont be screwed together too well. Aslong as you keep it serviced and maintained it should be a pretty reliable car.

I have owned 4 french cars, only had to do wear and tear work on them. My mum and dad have spent more money fixing their jap/vag cars than i have.

[davidwatsonok]

Agreed, VAG reliability is a myth !

[NewBeetle]

Originally Posted by davidwatsonok

Agreed, VAG reliability is a myth !

Never had an issue with the 7/8 I have owned (had a fiat punto in a moment of madness but that was fine too, if a little 'flexible')

[davidwatsonok]

I'm bitter through experience. I owned a Corrado, infamous as the most unreliable car VAG ever produced. No matter how much money you spent, or how many times you replaced items they all failed quickly and continuously. In 13 years it only passed 1 MOT and would probably have cost me less to run a Veyron. We currently have two Skoda's, a Fabia and an Octavia, and both have had multiple issues. The Fab is currently blowing its rear screen demister fuse continuously and the Octy has the airbag light on

[un1eash]

Twingo was on our list of cars but the interior is just terrible plus i'm not a fan of renault.

Cant stand diesel either, i've not found a diesel engine i like yet, my sisters octavia has plenty of power (140bhp) but its all on/off and you run out of revs. I do plan to test drive a 2008 330D Coupe soon though to compare it to a 325 petrol.

My vote would be the Swift but a Swift Sport as my girlfriend has one....

Its an awesome little car, handles just as well as the mini, has plenty of power and loves to be revved.

Best thing about it is its not a vauxhall/vw/ford/fiat etc. You will hardly see another on the road which IMO makes it more special.

[davidwatsonok]

I'm always a bit dumbfounded by the 'out of revs' and 'constant gear changing' comments about modern diesels. Both our cars have six gears to take them to a theoretical 130-140 or so, just like my old petrol Subaru Impreza. Divide gears by speed and they are just the same. The number of revs needed confuses people as they pull like a train with massive torque between 2.5 and 4.5k, whereas my Scooby did all it's work from 3.5k to 6k, a massive 500 extra revs You just learn to drive to the torque instead of the rotational multiplication of that torque manifested as BHP. 1st till gets 20, 2nd sees 40 or so, 3rd nearly hits 60 and so on, just like almost every petrol car I've owned and/or driven.

If you haven't driven one of the BMW 6 cylinder diesels then you are yet to be converted to how good they can be. My mates 335D 3.0 twin turbo map'd to 350bhp and 500+ torque is astoundingly fast, yet still can hit 45mpg. Stunning car, now where did I leave that £25k ?

[Yandros]

Another vote for the Swift Sport

We've been running one as our second car (along with my old Mk2 MR2) for 6 months now, and it's a real hoot. It's a rather good drivers car. Nice engine, gorgeous short throw gearbox, and you can even provoke a little bit of old school lift-off oversteer if you feel like it., The stability control doesn't let you get into too much trouble fortunately, and the Goodyear Eagle F1s grip nicely.

The boot really isn't very big on the swift either though...you say the Alfa and 500 are smaller?

No major problems so far. Doors/boot closing isn't quite as positive as I'd like, and the rear quarter visibility really sucks due to the C pillar and high headrests, but apart from that, it's a great little car.

[un1eash]

With the exception to the 6 pot BMW diesels as i'm yet to drive one ive driven alot of diesel turbos from vauxhall,peugeot,renault,ford and VAG and i just dont like them.

ps. All my cars hit 60mph in 2nd,

[applebwl]

My sons in the same position as you.

After today's test drives its going to be the Mini, and the "One" spec as includes Air con plus 20 bhp more than "First" spec

The Polo was nice, high quality interior , but has the following drawbacks :-

1) 3 Cylinder 70 Bhp ( spec upped from 60 ) -would really need to get the 1.6 Oil burner
2) Remote central locking extra
3) Drum rear Brakes
4) Only 2 full airbags plus head/side Torax ( Mini 6 Bags)
5) 5 speed (Mini 6 Speed )
6) Poor spec Radio/CD
7) No Stop/Start technology

All the other cars mentioned on the thread depreciate rapidly, whilst both the Polo and Mini should be worth the same as scrappage price paid after a year

[NewBeetle]

Originally Posted by applebwl

My sons in the same position as you.

After today's test drives its going to be the Mini, and the "One" spec as includes Air con plus 20 bhp more than "First" spec

The Polo was nice, high quality interior , but has the following drawbacks :-

1) 3 Cylinder 70 Bhp ( spec upped from 60 ) -would really need to get the 1.6 Oil burner
2) Remote central locking extra
3) Drum rear Brakes
4) Only 2 full airbags plus head/side Torax ( Mini 6 Bags)
5) 5 speed (Mini 6 Speed )
6) Poor spec Radio/CD
7) No Stop/Start technology

All the other cars mentioned on the thread depreciate rapidly, whilst both the Polo and Mini should be worth the same as scrappage price paid after a year

No doubt the mini is a good car, but just not one I like, just a personal thing. I still have no idea which I am gonna choose. There's almost too much choice

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by un1eash

With the exception to the 6 pot BMW diesels as i'm yet to drive one ive driven alot of diesel turbos from vauxhall,peugeot,renault,ford and VAG and i just dont like them.

ps. All my cars hit 60mph in 2nd,

Vauxhall should be introducing their bi-turbo diesels to their range soon I would have thought - been on the Saabs for a wee while now.

New wave of common rail VAG diesels too if I'm not mistaken?

French diesels, well, nothing insanely quick at stock at present.

Ford .. meant to be launching new engines with the revised model Focus - lot's of talk of a 200bhp diesel ... won't hold my breath though, as it will tread on the toes of the ST225 and be a 'no-no' most likely

My old ST170 which was geared strangely, hit 72 mph in 2nd, which was er ... unique. Petrol I know, but pretty amusing!

[un1eash]

I wouldnt mind a mini cooper s but theres something about the whole range that i dont like, something to do with girly image they carry. Its the reason my girlfriend didnt want one. She wouldnt even test drive one.

No longer a fan of vauxhall, we had an insignia for abit and the interior was so tacky, i didnt know they could make that many different types of black plastic.

Its going to be interesting watching second hand prices next year when the scrappage scheme runs out. If you got a car for £8k on scrappage and next year you could only buy it new for 10k will yours still be worth 8k after a year?

Our swift is still worth about the same as what we paid 6 months ago as we got an ex demo with 2.5k miles on the clock and its White so thanks to suzuki not supplying the UK with any new white swifts yet it makes it quite rare and last time i checked there were no white swift sports for sale on autotrader or suzuki's used car network.

[Decadence]

How about a Mitsubishi Colt Ralliart? Bit more pricey but still half decent on scrappage.

[un1eash]

I cant make my mind up about the ralliart, from the front its trying to look like a Evo X and from the rear, well it just dont look right.

Theres no doult its a quick car though, it did well on the fifthgear test against the swift sport, twingo sport and 500 abarth.

[FZR400RRSP]

You should at least 'audition' a Mito.
Fantastic little car.
I don't mind the Suzuki, I just feel it has that indefinable air of a Japanese car trying to be European, but not quite making it.
Especially in the styling stakes.
My mate's Mito has been faultess since he got his.
He used scrappage too.

IMO, the new Polo is the usual VW fare.....dull inside and out. For people who buy their clothes at M+S. Efficient but dull.

I love the new Fiesta, the wife loves hers, no rattles at all in ours and the refinement of much more expensive/bigger cars.
But it is a top of the range model.

Agree with you on the 207, didn't even consider it.

Latest Clio is excellent, we had one for three years without a single fault...I mean it...nothing.

Vauxhall, we'll never own one of any type.

Mini, no thanks, don't like the image and forced 'fun' of the marketing hype.

[Buckster]

70mph in 2nd (and 40mph in 1st) on my Civic too - very handy

I've been in the standard non VRS Fabia 1.9TDi and it was very quick

Originally Posted by thesilverfox

Vauxhall should be introducing their bi-turbo diesels to their range soon I would have thought - been on the Saabs for a wee while now.

New wave of common rail VAG diesels too if I'm not mistaken?

French diesels, well, nothing insanely quick at stock at present.

Ford .. meant to be launching new engines with the revised model Focus - lot's of talk of a 200bhp diesel ... won't hold my breath though, as it will tread on the toes of the ST225 and be a 'no-no' most likely

My old ST170 which was geared strangely, hit 72 mph in 2nd, which was er ... unique. Petrol I know, but pretty amusing!

[NewBeetle]

I'm still seriously considering the Swift 1.5 GLX £8200 inc scrappage or £8500 for the 5 door. Don't actually need 5 door but the difference in price is so small I may just get it for resale potential in the future?

As much as I like the Swift Sport I can't justify the extra £2000 plus fuel and insurance costs (maybe in 3 years when I get my no claims back up)

The 1.5 is plenty nippy enough for the size of the car IMO. Gonna go for white I think........

[thesilverfox]

Originally Posted by NewBeetle

I'm still seriously considering the Swift 1.5 GLX £8200 inc scrappage or £8500 for the 5 door. Don't actually need 5 door but the difference in price is so small I may just get it for resale potential in the future?

As much as I like the Swift Sport I can't justify the extra £2000 plus fuel and insurance costs (maybe in 3 years when I get my no claims back up)

The 1.5 is plenty nippy enough for the size of the car IMO. Gonna go for white I think........

My only gripe with 5-door cars (and I do have one myself), is that the door pillar is in your view slightly, where it wouldn't be with a three door.

Hardly a big deal, but if you've always had 3-door and you go to a 5-door, you'll notice it.

[NewBeetle]

Originally Posted by thesilverfox

My only gripe with 5-door cars (and I do have one myself), is that the door pillar is in your view slightly, where it wouldn't be with a three door.

Hardly a big deal, but if you've always had 3-door and you go to a 5-door, you'll notice it.

Never thought about that, but you're right.

On the plus side you have a small chance of being able to open your door fully in a car park as some of the 3 door front doors are huge nowadays. Plus 3 doors always look better especially in hatch's.