[qwerty321]

If you see the aforementioned car, watch out! It was a Male driver in his mid 30s.

Was driving on the A38 south today between Burton and Cannock and was in the outside doing around 70 following some traffic after moving over to overtake. It was a bit of distance before I moved over to the left but there wasn't anyone behind me or anything. The car mentioned in the title was infront of me in the outside line.

For the length of 6 cars the left hand lane was completely empty so I ended up undertaking most of them before I reached a lorry. When going into the left hand lane it wasn't my intention of undertaking to get in front of the cars in the outside lane, just that there was no valid reason to stay in the outside lane.

I was approaching the lorry and noticed a fairly big gap in the outside lane and moved over (this put me 2 cars in front of the Alfa). I never cut anybody up, didn't use the brakes just a normal lane change.

After I had overtaken the lorry I moved back over. The car behind me went past as normal. Then came the Alfa. I was doing 70 and he stayed level with me and started blasting the horn numerous times. Considering this was a 70mph A Road and it was raining I didn't look over for a bit. It went on so I glanced over to see what the matter was. This guy looked FURIOUS. He was shouting something which I obviously couldn't hear or make out. I looked straight on and continued at 70 but this guy still wouldn't go. I look over again and motion to say what is it. He is motioning for me to pull over and looking absolutely peed off. I carry on as normal again and he still persists in beeping the horn and keeping at the same speed. At this point I checked it was clear behind me and braked and off he went.

I have never seen such road rage ever! Really **** me up and left me feeling numb afterwards. I just don't understand what his problem was! If you happen to see the person best to just avoid him!

Also on the off chance that the person is on these forums and sees this. Please do explain what made you so angry and I apologise for any wrong doing.

[neilos100]

Was he an off-duty Police Officer perchance??

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by neilos100

Was he an off-duty Police Officer perchance??

I highly doubt it. Why would an off duty police offer very angrily motion and make use of the horn for well near 30 seconds for someone to pull over when there is no reason for it. I wasn't speeding and when I fell back he went off and left.

[Greg]

Had something similar to me today. Turning right at a mini roundabout, a car coming the opposite way decided to pull out in front of me, but I was already over the roundabout meaning he had to brake. Then the guy followed me all the way home stopping outside my house to say I shouldn't have cut him up and I was out of order. But it was my right of way and I was already halfway across the roundabout when he almost pulled out in front of me. I basically ignored him and went inside. I don't mind lunatics out on the road but when they follow me home it is a different matter!

What is it with some people?

[General]

To the OP.

I suspect that whilst you might not have intended to undertake, the other guy did not see it that way since you did, in fact, complete the classic undertake manoeuvre.

It wound him up and he let you know about it in his own sweet way

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by General

To the OP.

I suspect that whilst you might not have intended to undertake, the other guy did not see it that way since you did, in fact, complete the classic undertake manoeuvre.

It wound him up and he let you know about it in his own sweet way

Sweet way my arse, he shouldn't be behind the wheel with a temper like that

I understand that I did end up undertaking the cars even though that wasn't my intention when I moved to the left. However, you can't seriously expect someone to either wait for the traffic in the right hand lane to pass before overtaking or to sit in the outside lane.

I fail to see why he had such an issue with it as nobody else did.

[Dave]

I'll be honest, when people do that it makes me furious as well.

Undertaking is dangerous and when people do it to get just a few car lengths in front it makes me teeth gnash like nothing else.

I'm not saying you intended to do this but it probably looked like it and I can totally see the Alfa driver's point of view (though can't agree with going postal in a car).

In my old job I had to drive on motorways nearly every day and I don't miss it a bit, it made me crazy sometimes mainly due to the abysmal standards of driving displayed by arrogant ******s with suit jackets hanging in the rear of their repmobile.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

Sweet way my arse, he shouldn't be behind the wheel with a temper like that

I understand that I did end up undertaking the cars even though that wasn't my intention when I moved to the left. However, you can't seriously expect someone to either wait for the traffic in the right hand lane to pass before overtaking or to sit in the outside lane.

I fail to see why he had such an issue with it as nobody else did.

You undertook a bunch of cars and don't understand why one of the people you undertook might have issues with that ?

[markonline1]

Maybe if inconsiderate idiots didn't sit in the outside lane when not overtaking or when there is nothing in the inside lane, people wouldn't have to undertake!!!!!!!

[petrolheed]

<devils advocate>If you were able to undertake without too much effort or hard acceleration, then surely the fault is with the person in the outside lane of the motorway not following proper lane discipline and causing a holdup, not the undertaker</devils advocate>

[petrolheed]

I`m not saying undertaking is right or safe BTW, just that if someone is dawdling along in the outside lane when theres nothing in the inside lane then their behaviour is just as bad, if not worse. If the lanes were used properly there would never be an opportunity, or motive to undertake. even the car hating government agree, why else would they spend money on signs saying "return to left when not overtaking" "allow faster vehicles to pass safely" "frustration causes accidents - allow overtaking" the roads are full of people who think that just because their speedo is pointing below a certan arbitrary number that their driving is inherantly safe,and that anyone whowants to travel any faster is a dangerous holligan who must be stopped. In the last 10 years driving in this country has went from pleasurable to a hateful chore.

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by gavan

You undertook a bunch of cars and don't understand why one of the people you undertook might have issues with that ?

What these 2 guys have said:

Originally Posted by markonline1

Maybe if inconsiderate idiots didn't sit in the outside lane when not overtaking or when there is nothing in the inside lane, people wouldn't have to undertake!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by petrolheed

<devils advocate>If you were able to undertake without too much effort or hard acceleration, then surely the fault is with the person in the outside lane of the motorway not following proper lane discipline and causing a holdup, not the undertaker</devils advocate>

I was in no rush at all and was doing 70 when I moved over the left hand lane and kept at that speed. Its just that the outside lane got clogged up with people not following the lane discipline and they slowed each other down.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

What these 2 guys have said:





I was in no rush at all and was doing 70 when I moved over the left hand lane and kept at that speed. Its just that the outside lane got clogged up with people not following the lane discipline and they slowed each other down.

It's quite clear now that you deliberately undertook, no matter how much you try to dress it up as being non-intentional


In any case, regardless of your 'intent' and the rights and wrongs of people who dawdle along in the overtaking lane causing 'queues' to build up there, it should be pretty clear to you why someone got wound up by your actions.

[richard plumb]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

I was in no rush at all and was doing 70 when I moved over the left hand lane and kept at that speed. Its just that the outside lane got clogged up with people not following the lane discipline and they slowed each other down.

fair enough IMO.

Whenever I pull back over to the left I try not to undertake. But quite often the outside lane will slow down as people pull into it, clogging it up. So there is a limit to how much you can ease off the power. If its looking like I'll start holding people up in the left lane, I'll just start treating it like a queue rather than a normal flow of traffic and let myself pass.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by petrolheed

I`m not saying undertaking is right or safe BTW, just that if someone is dawdling along in the outside lane when theres nothing in the inside lane then their behaviour is just as bad, if not worse. If the lanes were used properly there would never be an opportunity, or motive to undertake. even the car hating government agree, why else would they spend money on signs saying "return to left when not overtaking" "allow faster vehicles to pass safely" "frustration causes accidents - allow overtaking" the roads are full of people who think that just because their speedo is pointing below a certan arbitrary number that their driving is inherantly safe,and that anyone whowants to travel any faster is a dangerous holligan who must be stopped. In the last 10 years driving in this country has went from pleasurable to a hateful chore.

The issue is being in the overtake lane, pulling into the left lane because it's clear, moving a short distance up the road past some cars held up in the overtake lane, then pulling back into the overtake lane.

That's a clear 'undertake' manoeuvre and would likely have resulted in the driver being pulled over by police if they'd be around.

If everyone did that when faced with someone going slower than them in the overtake lane, there would be total chaos on the roads.

Just because someone else was dawdling in the right lane ahead and not overtaking promptly, causing a line of traffic to build up behind doesn't excuse it.

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by gavan

It's quite clear now that you deliberately undertook, no matter how much you try to dress it up as being non-intentional


In any case, regardless of your 'intent' and the rights and wrongs of people who dawdle along in the overtaking lane causing 'queues' to build up there, it should be pretty clear to you why someone got wound up by your actions.

What I meant was that the traffic slowed down a while after I was in the left hand lane. I never saw any gaps in the traffic or the lorry that was the reason I moved into the right hand lane again, that only happened after it slowed down.

Im not denying that I undertook but it certainly wasn't deliberate. Before moving over to the outside lane I gave fair chance for anyone to pass me if they wanted and one person did that. The other didn't and left a big gap which I moved into.

[sean5302]

To the OP:

Thanks for giving us the reg number and details of the Alfa.

Could you please post your details so that we'll know where you are if we have the misfortune to be driving nearby?

Many thanks.

[petrolheed]

Originally Posted by gavan

If everyone did that when faced with someone going slower than them in the overtake lane, there would be total chaos on the roads.

The system seems to work fine in america, undertaking isn`t illegal there and it doesn`t seem to cause problems, in fact it allows more efficient use of the space available on the road network.
If people didn`t dawdle in the overtaking lanes this discussion wouldn`t be happening. If everybody returned to the left lane when not overtaking or if there was a faster vehicle behind them they would still get to their destination at the same time but the whole motorway network would flow smoother. If proper lane discipline is used, undertaking would be physically impossible. It seems to be the mentality of a lot of drivers that they will decide that everyone has to be just as miserable as they are.
I was on the m8 the other night, 2 lane 70mph motorway and the traffic was quiet as it was lateat night, in a convoy of 3 cars doing 70-80 at a safe distance (didn`t know them, we all just seemed to be travelling at about the same speed). we came across an older driver doing 50 in the outside lane with nothing in the inside lane as far as the eye could see. we sat behind for a couple of miles and the driver behind him gave him acouple of short flashes of main beam in case he hadnt seen him in the mirrors, and instead of moving over to the inside lane as any sensible person would he instead slammed on the brakes as hard as possible, nearly causing an accident. the two of them started to get into a bit of road rage, I decided the best way to proceed would be to nip up the inside as this old git was dangerous and volatile but i still had 110 miles left on my journey and doing it at 50 or under due to the whims of one narcissist isn`t my cup of tea.I realise that makes me a criminal in the eyes of some and TBH i couldnt give a flying one. If undertaking was legal, all 3 cars would have sailed past without incident. If the old guy followed proper lane discipline all 3 cars would have sailed past without incident. Something has to give.

[sean5302]

Surprisingly enough, undertaking isn't illegal here, either.

Even Police constables don't seem to know that.

If you look at the Highway Code you will see that the use of MUST / MUST NOT is suffixed by the link to the relevant section of Law.

There is no such link to the overtaking on the left parts.

When I have asked PCs about this in the course of my job, they said they could prosecute for a non-specific offence. If the other driver had to brake suddenly as a result of the undertake, they could try driving without due care and attention.

Asking whether they would, every constable said they wouldn't.

Overtaking (162-169) : Directgov - Travel and transport

[DPinBucks]

I'm with the OP on this.

As sean has pointed out, undertaking isn't illegal anyway. It is specifically allowed where the inner lane in general is moving faster than the outer.

That seems to be the case here. For whatever reason, the front car in the outside lane was moving at a steady, if slowish, pace. The inner lane was moving faster. The OP passed the offending car on the inside, there was a gap in front of it, so he moved over.

Now, unless he really did do lots of carving up (and he claims he wasn't: the scenario he describes rings very true), it seems to me that he was acting well within the spirit of valid undertaking. The car at fault was the dawdler for not getting out of everybody's way. I suspect that the Alfa driver was upset really because the OP took the slot he wanted to use.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by DPinBucks

I'm with the OP on this.

As sean has pointed out, undertaking isn't illegal anyway. It is specifically allowed where the inner lane in general is moving faster than the outer.

That seems to be the case here. For whatever reason, the front car in the outside lane was moving at a steady, if slowish, pace. The inner lane was moving faster. The OP passed the offending car on the inside, there was a gap in front of it, so he moved over.

Now, unless he really did do lots of carving up (and he claims he wasn't: the scenario he describes rings very true), it seems to me that he was acting well within the spirit of valid undertaking. The car at fault was the dawdler for not getting out of everybody's way. I suspect that the Alfa driver was upset really because the OP took the slot he wanted to use.

Moving faster in the inside lane than the overtaking lane isn't the issue per se.

The issue is being in the overtaking lane, moving into the inside lane to pass a number of cars because they weren't going as fast as you wanted and then moving back out into the overtaking lane having passed a bunch of traffic.

i.e. Performing an undertaking manoeuvre.


If I was one of the people stuck in a bunch of traffic in the overtaking lane I'd already be pretty miffed by the dawdler holding me up. Seeing some wally behind me changing into the inside lane and nipping past a load of cars to cut back in front would make me even more peeved off.


Basically, the OP acted selfishly and stupidly, managed to provoke road rage and then came to the forum to complain about the incident he provoked (and posted the guy's reg online)

[lizap]

if your in the outside lane and a car passes you on the inside with ease then your in the wrong lane. simple

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by gavan

The issue is being in the overtaking lane, moving into the inside lane to pass a number of cars because they weren't going as fast as you wanted and then moving back out into the overtaking lane having passed a bunch of traffic.

i.e. Performing an undertaking manoeuvre.

If I was one of the people stuck in a bunch of traffic in the overtaking lane I'd already be pretty miffed by the dawdler holding me up. Seeing some wally behind me changing into the inside lane and nipping past a load of cars to cut back in front would make me even more peeved off.

Basically, the OP acted selfishly and stupidly, managed to provoke road rage and then came to the forum to complain about the incident he provoked (and posted the guy's reg online)

Like I have said. I was doing 70 in the outside lane and kept at the speed when I moved to the inside lane when I noticed there was space. It wasn't straight away when I went back to the outside lane. I passed 3 cars, saw the lorry, allowed ample opportunity for them to pass and one of them did. Then there was the big gap, nobody else moved so I moved over.

Its not a matter of them not going as fast as I wanted.

Assume you were in the same situation, what would you do?

[sean5302]

qwerty, there are always 2 sides to a story.

We've read your side and most readers are unhappy with what you wrote.

We weren't there at the time. The guy in the Alfa was, and you seem very sure about your effect on him.

Is that telling you anything, mate?

Out of interest, did you pass a UK driving test, and if so, how long ago?

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by sean5302

qwerty, there are always 2 sides to a story.

We've read your side and most readers are unhappy with what you wrote.

We weren't there at the time. The guy in the Alfa was, and you seem very sure about your effect on him.

Is that telling you anything, mate?

Out of interest, did you pass a UK driving test, and if so, how long ago?

Most readers? Looks like an even split to me.

I passed a UK test around 18 months ago.

Cue arrogant, cocky new driver comments . . .

Ill just add that since I have been driving I have only on one other occasion undertaken a car. That was intentional as there was a driver in the 3rd lane of the motorway doing 60mph. After 3 headlight flashes, 2 of which he noticed as he checked his rear view, he never did anything. So I proceeded to undertake.

[Uridium]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

I passed a UK test around 18 months ago.

So your still learning to drive really then....

The other guy had an Alfa...Can't be all bad eh

[qwerty321]

Originally Posted by Uridium

So your still learning to drive really then....

The other guy had an Alfa...Can't be all bad eh

Definitely still learning to drive, my dad likes to remind me regularly. By no means do I think I am a great driver or anything but Id like to think that I am better than my peers and than some of the older drivers I see on the roads.

I am still perplexed as to why the guy acted like that. I understand that I ended up undertaking the cars but what the hell warrants a person acting like that. The last thing you would want to do is stop!

I can't see a situation where I would do anything like that if someone undertook me or cut me up. Use of the horn and maybe the finger but not pulling alongside and try to get them pull over!

[General]

Originally Posted by qwerty321

...I am still perplexed as to why the guy acted like that.

Seems straightforward to me. I suggest that in his eyes you acted like a smart ass, totally disrespecting him and other road users by your actions, however unintentional. In many situations disrespect results in aggression and/or actual violence - read the papers. You had a lucky escape by the sound of it.

A lesson learnt perhaps?

[apolloa]

You 'unintentionally' undertook??? Right, you KNEW you were undertaking people, YOU are the driver, YOUR supposed to be in control of YOUR car, therefore YOU have a brake pedal, USE IT!
Sorry but I would be mad too if I saw someone undertake several cars then move back into the correct overtaking lane.

So IMO it served you right to be honest. If you were taking an advanced driving test on a motorway or dual carriageway and undertook you would most likely fail the test, it's a rule that saves lives, most if not all traffic laws are in place to save life's.

[alexs2]

This topic's completely done.....both sides of the issue have been exhausted.

To summarise....Yes,the driver of the Alfa was angry well beyond what one would normally expect,but the OP had passed by "undertaking",which is wrong also.

Closed.