Oh well, strike the A5 sportback off the list then...

FZR400RRSP · 02-11-2009, 1:59 PM

Was slightly curious about the new A5 sportback, as it ticked the boxes I need/want.
Hatchback, 4 doors, available with 4wd if I decide I want that etc.etc.
Just finished reading a pretty scathing report on it in this month's 'What Car' though.
They have it fourth, behind the 3-series (which won), the C-Class Merc (2nd) and the much cheaper Passat CC (3rd)
They cited a very peculiar and uncomfortable driving position as the biggest problem.
Seemingly the pedals are so offset it's weird, and the clutch often cannot be depressed fully for the footrest getting in the way.

Oh well, strike that car off the list then.
This new car malarky, it's a pain.

imightbewrong · 02-11-2009, 2:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

Was slightly curious about the new A5 sportback, as it ticked the boxes I need/want.
Hatchback, 4 doors, available with 4wd if I decide I want that etc.etc.
Just finished reading a pretty scathing report on it in this month's 'What Car' though.
They have it fourth, behind the 3-series (which won), the C-Class Merc (2nd) and the much cheaper Passat CC (3rd)
They cited a very peculiar and uncomfortable driving position as the biggest problem.
Seemingly the pedals are so offset it's weird, and the clutch often cannot be depressed fully for the footrest getting in the way.

Oh well, strike that car off the list then.
This new car malarky, it's a pain.

Surely this is something that is very driver-specific though - i.e. if to you the driving position isn't weird, then the car might feature a lot higher up the list. It's like when anything is reviewed, and they say 'it's good, but we mark it down for not having xyz feature' - if a particular customer doesn't want that feature, then it's of no importance to them.

Although if you can't press the clutch I agree that's no good

FZR400RRSP · 02-11-2009, 2:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imightbewrong

Although if you can't press the clutch I agree that's no good

As soon as I read it, I wondered if Audi have built the car with their DSG in mind, in which case no need for a clutch pedal.
I'd never have DSG again, so I was interested that they had a manual test car.
They definitely said the offset pedals are so badly offset it was a general problem for everyone who drove it.

qwerty321 · 02-11-2009, 2:13 PM

What makes the A5 sportback different from the A4. Haven't looked into it much but to me it seems to be a slight different looking A4

richard plumb · 02-11-2009, 2:15 PM

I'm guessing its like the 5 series GT? So a stretched A5 with four doors?

How did the A5 review generally? I'd have thought they wouldn't have changed the driver position particularly. I like the look of the A5

FZR400RRSP · 02-11-2009, 2:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard plumb

How did the A5 review generally? I'd have thought they wouldn't have changed the driver position particularly. I like the look of the A5

The weird/uncomfortable driving position was their biggest gripe by far, but they also said the low speed ride was poor and the handling got a bit 'floaty' at speed.
About the only thing they gave it high marks for was kit, as it was the only one that comes with leather as standard.
It really was a pretty poor review for the A5 in general, which was a surprise.
If they rank it below the Passat CC, that's saying something.
It's about £6k cheaper!

Decadence · 02-11-2009, 2:37 PM

You can't scratch something because of a review can you, maybe the journalist was snubbed for free sandwiches on an Audi trade stand or something? Get out in one for a drive...

FZR400RRSP · 02-11-2009, 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Decadence

You can't scratch something because of a review can you, maybe the journalist was snubbed for free sandwiches on an Audi trade stand or something? Get out in one for a drive...

I tend to hold reviews in high regard, because I really don't have the time or the inclination to go on test-drives.
I'll keep an eye on other reviews, see what they say.
I was just quite shocked as to how poor a review it got though.
I dare say Audi themselves will be disappointed it came dead last.
One of the sales guys has a Passat CC.
I can't give him 'bragging rights', saying his £6k+ cheaper car is better.

sean5302 · 02-11-2009, 7:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

Was slightly curious about the new A5 sportback
Just finished reading a pretty scathing report on it in this month's 'What Car' though.
Oh well, strike that car off the list then.

Yes, coincidentally my wife's hairdresser's boyfriend's baby-sitter also heard that from a woman in the greengrocer's the other day.

She also heard that all the people on the AV Forum are well-read and able to make their own minds up.

Honeywell1945 · 02-11-2009, 8:05 PM

A lad at work recently bought a Passat CC , what a car that is . Looks like a million dollars , far better looking than any run of the mill Audi or Mercedes , just have to see if I can have a go of it compared to my Golf .

DVD-Man · 02-11-2009, 8:56 PM

What about a Fiesta Titanium Bowfer?

I have read you've test driven one extensively belonging to your wife LOL

Liam

FZR400RRSP · 03-11-2009, 9:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honeywell1945

A lad at work recently bought a Passat CC , what a car that is . Looks like a million dollars , far better looking than any run of the mill Audi or Mercedes , just have to see if I can have a go of it compared to my Golf .

It is a fantastic looking car, we have a black one on the fleet.
It's ok to drive as well, although nowhere near as 'dynamic' as the looks suggest.
Like getting a fantastic looking woman home and finding out she isn't much a goer.

apolloa · 03-11-2009, 11:08 AM

I vote for the Fiesta too. Just think it's amazing on tax and insurance!

Also what about the 5 series GT? And why are they all doing big hatch backs now anyway? Is it because the Mondeo is the same size as a 5 series now? Threatening sales?

chrisw · 03-11-2009, 11:37 AM

The A5 coupe is the same and put me off - unless you have very thin feet, the foot rest next to the clutch is in the way more often than not and I don't want to have to think too much about how I depress a clutch pedal! To me, the pedals are just not in a natural position in the manual, but for some reason the automatic seems to have the accelerator and brake in a much better place.

I'm not a fan of Beemers at all, but have to say the 5 GT is a much better looking package - although considearbly more expensive.

FZR400RRSP · 03-11-2009, 11:48 AM

I'm going to look at a C-class Merc.
Their 'blue efficiency' diesels seem to have the right balance of power/torque and low emissions (for company car tax).

Uridium · 03-11-2009, 12:02 PM

Just buy a Brera S and be done with it....

FZR400RRSP · 03-11-2009, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uridium

Just buy a Brera S and be done with it....

I wish...
A 159 sportwagon is another option though, I suppose.
Hmmm....

(this is all assuming the lease cancellation on the Alpina is favourable

)

chrisw · 03-11-2009, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

I'm going to look at a C-class Merc.
Their 'blue efficiency' diesels seem to have the right balance of power/torque and low emissions (for company car tax).

I test drove both the C180K (petrol) and the C220 (diesel) in 'elegance' and 'sport' guises and liked neither of them that much, although the sport version was miles ahead of the elegance model overall. I ended up buying an A6 and am very glad I did so, it just feels so much better than the C-Class all over and was considerably cheaper too. The C-Class sport looks nice from the outside, but to me that was the end of things I liked.

That said, it's just my opinion and I'd still recommend you giving them a try as you may think very differently to me. I'd also have a look at the Volvo range (in R Design) as they are vastly improved in both image and quality than they used to be.

richard plumb · 03-11-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisw

I'm not a fan of Beemers at all, but have to say the 5 GT is a much better looking package - although considearbly more expensive.

I think to simplify things - Beemers these days aren't the best looking cars, or the best fitted out inside. They don't do much to make you feel 'special' which can put you off when buying with your own money. But they drive really well. Audis are kind of the opposite. They don't drive that well, but they have the 'special' pretty much nailed.

the key here for me is 'drive'. magazines etc will likely mark cars down for how much feedback they give you, how well they really drive - when all you might want is a motorway wafter. So take that part with a pinch of salt - always worth getting a test drive.

FZR400RRSP · 03-11-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard plumb

I think to simplify things - Beemers these days aren't the best looking cars, or the best fitted out inside. They don't do much to make you feel 'special' which can put you off when buying with your own money. But they drive really well. Audis are kind of the opposite. They don't drive that well, but they have the 'special' pretty much nailed.

I chose the Alpina purely because of the drive, as the spec is certainly nothing to write home about.

But I do find myself wishing I had more kit, especially when the wife's Fiesta has significantly more.

Kit isn't everything though, I still want a good drive.
I've owned two Audis and recently drove 1000 miles in a new A4.
They just do not drive well at all, completely numb.

I wouldn't say I felt special in any of them either, to be honest.
You're just another Audi driver, among thousands.
Mercs aren't common though, which was another 'plus' for the Alpina.

richard plumb · 03-11-2009, 2:39 PM

its odd though. Both Audi and BMW are missing a trick.

If BMW sharpened their image a little, spent a bit more on some interior bling (while keeping their excellent ergonomics), they could clean up.
Same for Audi if they could try and compete on drivability with BMW

FZR400RRSP · 03-11-2009, 2:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard plumb

its odd though. Both Audi and BMW are missing a trick.
If BMW sharpened their image a little, spent a bit more on some interior bling (while keeping their excellent ergonomics), they could clean up.
Same for Audi if they could try and compete on drivability with BMW

Absolutely.
But it would appear both are sticking to their respective guns.

chrisw · 03-11-2009, 5:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FZR400RRSP

You're just another Audi driver, among thousands.
Mercs aren't common though, which was another 'plus' for the Alpina.

Mercs aren't that common in my opinion as there are better products out there for less money... also, I wouldn't buy a car based on how common / uncommon they are.

I came to the A6 from a Boxster, and yes, they are miles apart from a driving perspective. However, I just can't imagine wanting to buy something the size of an A6/5 Series / E Class and want to throw it around, as that's not its primary purpose. The A6 eats up the miles and gets me to my destination feeling relaxed and serine, the Boxster made me feel like I'd been sparring in the gym for a few rounds!

Has anyone here driven the new C5... It looks very smart (but is a Citreon) but have no idea if it's any good...

BAN5HEE · 04-11-2009, 9:20 AM

I never make a decision on a review. My opinion is the only one that matters. If someone says something is good I will go and try it first before buying to make sure its good for me. If someone says something is bad I would do the same. You may be missing out on loads of good things if you just rely on someone else’s reviews and opinions.

Epicurus · 04-11-2009, 9:23 AM

You've got to remember most Audis are front wheel drive so will never give the same drive as a BMW, but the moment you jump into a Quattro Audi the situation is completely different.

The A5 and A4 are based on the same floorplan and somewhere along the line they completely cocked up the driving position when changing them from left to right hand drive. If you get something with a DSG box then again it's ok, but if you want a manual then yes that's an unfortunate truth.

The A5 sportback is a brilliant car, I think it looks better than the coupe, but I certainly wouldn't buy a manual one knowing about this problem, but I would still happily have an s-tronic one with the brilliant new 7 speed box.

Audis still look the mutt's and have brilliant interiors which for me counts a lot, I love the latest generation of MMI with 3d mapping so you can actually relate the maps to buildings around you, the excellent new iPod interface, SD card, DVD playing etc. I just picked up a 2.0tdi Q5 and it's one of the best cars I've ever had, the grip and handling with Quattro is superb and it looks amazing. I went for a DSG box because the Q5 also shares the same floorplan! The other benefit of DSG though is that they are faster and give better fuel economy than a manual.

deanym · 04-11-2009, 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richard plumb

its odd though. Both Audi and BMW are missing a trick.

If BMW sharpened their image a little, spent a bit more on some interior bling (while keeping their excellent ergonomics), they could clean up.
Same for Audi if they could try and compete on drivability with BMW

If you think about it, it's not in either company's interest to tread too far into the other's market share. They both have a critical mass of component buying power and plant capacity and taking too many sales from the other could be potentially damaging, also the success of one brand against the other keeps the segment desirable. If it were only Mercedes or only BMW or only Audi in the medium saloon market rather than all three, many more people would buy Fords, Alfas or Peugeot - its the very fact that they are competing with each other which keeps them successful. BMW create the best interior in the world in Rolls Royce - if it was worth their while sticking it to Audi, they would have done it long ago. On the other hand, with all the resources at their disposal VAG could churn out a car which could rival the BMW in driving prowess but they don't need to - the car has enough "buy me" attraction to survive as it is.

FZR400RRSP · 04-11-2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deanym

On the other hand, with all the resources at their disposal VAG could churn out a car which could rival the BMW in driving prowess but they don't need to - the car has enough "buy me" attraction to survive as it is.

Undoubtedly, but it must still grate on VAG engineers when they constantly hear/read about how dull their cars are to drive and how much better the competition (BMW/Merc/Ford) handle.

FZR400RRSP · 04-11-2009, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisw

Mercs aren't that common in my opinion as there are better products out there for less money

In the case of the C-class, I don't agree there.
It's right up there with the competition.
So to say they aren't worth the money is to say the competition isn't worth the money either.
Whether the bigger Mercs compete with the A6/5-series, I have no idea.
I've no interest in cars that big at all.
I do a lot of driving over Scottish A/B roads, I need a (relatively) nimble car, not a luxubarge.

sdb123 · 04-11-2009, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epicurus

The other benefit of DSG though is that they are faster and give better fuel economy than a manual.

I may be wrong, but my research on DSG indicated that fuel economy was worse than with a manual?

FZR400RRSP · 04-11-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdb123

I may be wrong, but my research on DSG indicated that fuel economy was worse than with a manual?

I think they do claim DSG is more economical, albeit marginally.
They also claim DSG is faster, but that isn't down to the gearbox alone.
In the case of the A3, they change the gear ratios of DSG cars to ensure they're quicker to 60mph, again albeit marginally.

02-11-2009, 8:05 PM	#10
Honeywell1945 Member Join Date: May 2009 Thanks: Gave 89, Got 37 Posts: 717	Re: Oh well, strike the A5 sportback off the list then... A lad at work recently bought a Passat CC , what a car that is . Looks like a million dollars , far better looking than any run of the mill Audi or Mercedes , just have to see if I can have a go of it compared to my Golf .
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