[zeusalmighty]

Hello all! I am looking to change my current device (nokia E71) and two of my options are the previously mentioned. I want some serious thoughts on these subjects:

- Application availability
- Features
- Battery life
- Interface experience

Battery life is quite important. What I mostly want from my device would be:

- Listening to music
- Sync email
- Skype calls
- GPS
- Reading ebooks
- Web browsing

I have used both phones and though I have to admit I found the iPhone to be a more beatiful device, the G1 seemed like a real swiss army knife! So, I'm reading your thoughts on these matters.


PS. If I'm getting the G1, i'm gonna get the US developer version, if the iPhone, i'm buying it off O2 in the UK. Prices are not too different.

[Naqv]

erm, G1 is available free on T1 contract, vs iphone you have to pay £150 for 16gb version.

Music = iphone hands down.
GPS = Iphone or G1, although Iphone would win it for me, as unlimited dataplan on o2.
Skype = I don't think skype is currently configured for use using wifi, therefore, you better make sure you have an unlimited or big data plan = iphone/o2 win, as I think Tmobile only allow 250mb/month on their unlimited plan.

don't know about the rest.

[Sonic67]

One of the things is if you want a real keyboard or not. I prefer to have one.

[spiderman78]

Originally Posted by Naqv

Skype = I don't think skype is currently configured for use using wifi, therefore, you better make sure you have an unlimited or big data plan = iphone/o2 win, as I think Tmobile only allow 250mb/month on their unlimited plan.

I'm looking at both these phones at the moment and your comment about data plan concerned me. I've had a quick look at t-mobile site regards their web'n'walk on Flext plans. The 'legal stuff' says:

You'll need a compatible phone and internet coverage, check it at t-mobile.co.uk/streetcheck. Remember that you can only use web'n'walk in the UK and you can't use your phone as a modem or use web'n'walk for peer to peer file sharing, instant messaging (except if you have a Sidekick) or making internet phone calls.
This plan comes with a fair use policy of 1GB a month. We'll monitor how much you send and receive each calendar month so that we can protect our network for all our web'n'walk customers. If you use more than your fair use policy amount, we won't charge you any more, but we may restrict how you can use your plan, depending on how often you go over your amount and by how much.

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by spiderman78

I'm looking at both these phones at the moment and your comment about data plan concerned me. I've had a quick look at t-mobile site regards their web'n'walk on Flext plans. The 'legal stuff' says:

with the g1 plan they wont charge you whatever you use. the fair useage is 3gb but the guy at tmobile cs told me they never charge after that. dont know if thats for the g1 plans only or all plans.

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by zeusalmighty

Hello all! I am looking to change my current device (nokia E71) and two of my options are the previously mentioned. I want some serious thoughts on these subjects:

- Application availability
- Features
- Battery life
- Interface experience

Battery life is quite important. What I mostly want from my device would be:

- Listening to music
- Sync email
- Skype calls
- GPS
- Reading ebooks
- Web browsing

I have used both phones and though I have to admit I found the iPhone to be a more beatiful device, the G1 seemed like a real swiss army knife! So, I'm reading your thoughts on these matters.


PS. If I'm getting the G1, i'm gonna get the US developer version, if the iPhone, i'm buying it off O2 in the UK. Prices are not too different.

ive had an iphone and now on a g1, which for me is 10 times better than the iphone was. to be fair though thats partly to haveing a perfect tmobile 3g signal at home and work. o2 was poor.

[ElRazur]

Serious thoughts?

G1 no competition.

[zeusalmighty]

Hm... I liked your thoughts so far. Just for answering a few comments,

- It's just a matter of the devices, NOT the plans they come with. I'll be in UK for just 8 more months, which makes getting me a contract quite pointless. Pay as you go for both then (please read 1st post for clarification).

- The official Skype application doesn't even work through VoIP; that is it doesn't do a lot of data transfer. When I'm talking about Skype, I'm apparently referring to Skype alternatives like Fring or Nimbuzz, which work through any form of data connecting.

- Physical Qwerty keyboard is awesome, I can tell from my E71. But a virtual one isn't bad bad either, especially when iPhone has a landscape keyboard mode in the works.

- I'll take open source over closed source ANY TIME! But, I've read a lot of bad things about the G1 battery. I don't want to have to charge every 12 hours! Also, the design of that device is down right evil. How are you supposed to get your right thumb over the bulge? Kudos on the multitude of input methods.


To sum it up, I am mostly looking for a comparison of hardware characteristics, since I believe both platforms are strong enough to ultimately amend all of its software shortcomings. So, I'd like you to comment on:

- Screen size / legibility (I plan on reading ebooks and such on the device, would that kill my eyes?)
- Battery life (yes, I know, you can charge it every day, but I'd like to have a device that lasts a bit longer *just in case*)
- Usability (well, I know that the iPhone is quite usable, though not as fast and magical as advertised - how about G1?)

[Sonic67]

Originally Posted by zeusalmighty

- I'll take open source over closed source ANY TIME! But, I've read a lot of bad things about the G1 battery. I don't want to have to charge every 12 hours!

Charging is variable. If you are watching video, listening to music and surfing the web all the time you will need to keep charging. (As with the iphone.) On the other hand I've left my phone fully charged on a Friday and still with plenty of juice left on Monday.

Part of the problem is that the phone is so addictive you keep using it so then you have to keep charging it. Use it like a phone for calls and text messages and the battery lasts ages. Also the battery indicator is a little variable. It seems to run down quick at first but then the last bit of juice on the display actually lasts for ages. I think many people are going off the display and charging more often than might be needed.

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by Sonic67

Charging is variable. If you are watching video, listening to music and surfing the web all the time you will need to keep charging. (As with the iphone.) On the other hand I've left my phone fully charged on a Friday and still with plenty of juice left on Monday.

Part of the problem is that the phone is so addictive you keep using it so then you have to keep charging it. Use it like a phone for calls and text messages and the battery lasts ages. Also the battery indicator is a little variable. It seems to run down quick at first but then the last bit of juice on the display actually lasts for ages. I think many people are going off the display and charging more often than might be needed.

i agree, it seems to last long at 20%

[Digitalize]

Originally Posted by zeusalmighty

- Screen size / legibility (I plan on reading ebooks and such on the device, would that kill my eyes?)
- Battery life (yes, I know, you can charge it every day, but I'd like to have a device that lasts a bit longer *just in case*)
- Usability (well, I know that the iPhone is quite usable, though not as fast and magical as advertised - how about G1?)

- The iPhone has the bigger screen i think, and it is a very crisp clear screen, beautiful colour representation, fine for watching movies etc on, i guess eBooks would be fine
- With General iPod, WiFi/3G, and app use, i think you could just squeeze 48 hours out of it, but its worth getting another USB Cable, and shoving it in your bag, then if your caught somewhere, all you need is a USB Port.
- I Have found the iPhone to be as fast as i need it to be, when actually using it, Phone Start up takes some time, but i only do that once a week if that. Loading apps depends on the app, but once its loaded, good apps are smooth, bad ones are terrible. The iPhone's interface is very visual, with its sign post style buttons, and of course the home button always takes you to the main screen.

IMO - The G1 is an unfinished project, Google have released it as a proof of concept, not as a workable phone, and i would wait until more phones (More Attractive ones) Pick up the Android OS.

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by Digitalize

- The iPhone has the bigger screen i think, and it is a very crisp clear screen, beautiful colour representation, fine for watching movies etc on, i guess eBooks would be fine
- With General iPod, WiFi/3G, and app use, i think you could just squeeze 48 hours out of it, but its worth getting another USB Cable, and shoving it in your bag, then if your caught somewhere, all you need is a USB Port.
- I Have found the iPhone to be as fast as i need it to be, when actually using it, Phone Start up takes some time, but i only do that once a week if that. Loading apps depends on the app, but once its loaded, good apps are smooth, bad ones are terrible. The iPhone's interface is very visual, with its sign post style buttons, and of course the home button always takes you to the main screen.

IMO - The G1 is an unfinished project, Google have released it as a proof of concept, not as a workable phone, and i would wait until more phones (More Attractive ones) Pick up the Android OS.

not a workable phone?

[supersub40]

geta small HSDPA enabled phone like a viewty or N96 and a net book laptop with xp like an EEE or Acer aspire1.

iphones and g1S are too big to be decent phones and mp3 players and too small for a decent internet experience.
no need for silly apps when you have full Xp at your fingertips

[Digitalize]

Workable as in a fully finished experience, almost like a public beta, but your paying, its not finished.

[ROBIN50N]

as aposed to the iphone? no mms, crashing safari etc...is that still a beta?

[zeusalmighty]

Wow guys, chill, no need to start a phone war around here...

I know both phones are very good phones. I appreciate your input on battery life and such, though I have to admit I'm not sold on any of the two. G1 is awesome for me, but it has a sort of idiotic design and its friggin huge. The iPhone has the better design but it's slower and not as open as the G1 (which I have to say -again- that I love open source stuff!).

I wouldn't say the G1 is an unfinished project...the OS is awesome, and there are some really smart features built in there. The device itself it sort of disappointing. It's not built around the user, but rather the other way around.

As for the netbook recommendation, thanks, but no thanks! It's rather pointless for me really. What you're basically saying is, get an N96 for 400 pounds, then spend another 400 pounds to get a netbook? That doesn't sound like a smart choice to me.

I stand here undecided, but the main things that cause this is the fact the iPhone comes with 12 months of free web browsing, which is like 40% of the reason of getting a phone like that, while the G1 doesn't. G1 keyboard, trackball, open OS, bad battery. Can anyone please combine the two and give me a kick-ass multitouch awesome batter smartphone?

[Razor]

Originally Posted by zeusalmighty

Can anyone please combine the two and give me a kick-ass multitouch awesome batter smartphone?

Sony Xperia X1

[McPhee]

Originally Posted by Razor

Sony Xperia X1

Isn't multi-touch. And WM6.1 isn't as user friendly as OS X Mobile or as stable as Android.

Still, it's the phone i went for. Android needs better hardware, the iPhone needs a better network. The X1 needs a better OS, but it'll do for now. With an Android port, WM6.5 and WM7 on the way the software on the Xperia can only improve.

[zeusalmighty]

Originally Posted by McPhee

Isn't multi-touch. And WM6.1 isn't as user friendly as OS X Mobile or as stable as Android.

Still, it's the phone i went for. Android needs better hardware, the iPhone needs a better network. The X1 needs a better OS, but it'll do for now. With an Android port, WM6.5 and WM7 on the way the software on the Xperia can only improve.

I have to say that maybe multitouch is more of a cool feature than rather a necessity. But still, it's a plus. I have tried WM6 and I didn't like it one bit. I am a Windows user on my PC, but for my mobile? No thanks! Slow, unresponsive and in general never feels like it was built as a mobile handset OS. It was cool 5 years ago, now it's just aged. Maybe the new version, or maybe there will be a successful Android port, but I can't really rely on maybes and timelines. I want my phone now and working!

[Sy1441]

Originally Posted by Naqv

erm, G1 is available free on T1 contract, vs iphone you have to pay £150 for 16gb version.

Music = iphone hands down.
GPS = Iphone or G1, although Iphone would win it for me, as unlimited dataplan on o2.
Skype = I don't think skype is currently configured for use using wifi, therefore, you better make sure you have an unlimited or big data plan = iphone/o2 win, as I think Tmobile only allow 250mb/month on their unlimited plan.

don't know about the rest.

Absolute nonsense, T-Mobile have the far superior data network and data plans.

[ROBIN50N]

Originally Posted by Sy1441

Absolute nonsense, T-Mobile have the far superior data network and data plans.

id agree t mobiles 3g service seems more reliable aswell.

[Razor]

I find the X1 very easy to use due to the panel system which sony has. You dont ever have to go into windows mobile as the panels add a really nice user friendly front end. This should of been done years ago to the windows mobile platform. There are also other panels to download and add onto the X1, my favourite so far is SPB.

The phone is also very small, has great battery life, has a usable keyboard, battery life is staggering, amazing high res screen 800x480, nice touch interface, well built (metal case). So far this phone has blown me away and is the best phone I have owned for years, I seriously cant fault it. Its leagues ahead of other windows mobile phones and I much prefer it to the iphone.

[RobM]

Originally Posted by Sy1441

Absolute nonsense, T-Mobile have the far superior data network and data plans.

I found T-Bag terrible for data and network coverage, whereas I always have a decent data connection with O2, even though I live and work in the New Forest!

I know I've said this before, but my thoughts on the G1 seem to be shared by the likes of The Gadget Show when they reviewed it. In summary... great potential, but it's not finished yet. In 6-12 months time Android will be awesome but as it stands now it's very much a first-release OS. Poor hardware don't help matters, but this will improve and become more desirable and less Early Learning Center.

The iPhone isn't perfect, but it's more of a finished product and the support and value added services that surround it make it a much better ownership experience.

The X1 is a great business phone but I wouldn't want one as my only phone. Too fussy, too complex for basic tasks and too reliant on small buttons on a high-res touch screen. Great device if you have experience of WM and a great device if you're willing to work hard to make it operate the way you want, but it's not for everyone and not for people who value usability.

[RobM]

Originally Posted by zeusalmighty

I know both phones are very good phones. I appreciate your input on battery life and such, though I have to admit I'm not sold on any of the two. G1 is awesome for me, but it has a sort of idiotic design and its friggin huge. The iPhone has the better design but it's slower and not as open as the G1 (which I have to say -again- that I love open source stuff!).

Two thoughts on this bit for you... firstly, you can jailbreak your iPhone very quickly and safely and have the best of both worlds. The App Store and the unofficial community.
Secondly, there is always a risk with Open Source software will little control that you become a beta tester and risk software problems by installing software that hasn't been thoroughly tested. Perhaps a small risk, but a risk nonetheless.

[ROBIN50N]

what bits do people consider unfinshed?

[RobM]

Originally Posted by ROBIN50N

what bits do people consider unfinshed?

The are some inconsistent areas within the OS and how you interact with it. For instance, some things you drag from the top of the screen, others are dragged from the side, others open with a normal push of the button, others use sub-menus. There is no consistent approach and ensures whatever you're doing, you do it in the same way.

I also thought it was trying too hard to not be like the iPhone. There was always going to be a direct comparison, as threads like this and the various similar ones before it prove. But it seems that when developing Android if anything was too close to the iPhone it wasn't used, which means you miss out on some really simply usability options, as my first paragraph points to.

Some of the pretty stuff doesn't feel quite finished either. Icons that include a solid background as opposed to integrating with the OS with some form of transparency or sympathy to what it's covering.

I also managed to catch out the performance a few times when flicking quite quickly between options, menus, apps etc and noticed a definite increase in lag and hesitation. (edit) I also noticed that the screen, particularly in text boxes, didn't respond on my first press and I had to remind it that I wanted to enter something into a text field.

Some of these issues may be (or may have already been) resolved since my last really good amount of time with one. And some of them don't detract from the operation of the device, but do give a 'beta' feel to it. As you'd expect in any software development, the important things get dealt with first, such as reliability, performance speed etc and then the fluffy stuff around this is finished, such as better looking and more consistent menus and icons.

[ROBIN50N]

the drop down is for notifications text missed call etc..., the side ways are app screens the pull up screen is menu etc.... its not inconsistant.

[RobM]

Originally Posted by ROBIN50N

the drop down is for notifications text missed call etc..., the side ways are app screens the pull up screen is menu etc.... its not inconsistant.

The drop down is also for open and running programs, no? Such as the media player when you go back to the homescreen.

There is also the sub menus that you access via a long press of the screen, which sometimes are fine but other times I struggled to find the justification for this in situations where a single press would have been ideal.

My point is there is no consistent way of interacting with the phone. I accept your point that different interactions are used for different purposes, but why do they need to be different? Why drag from the top when you could tap-once for the same menu to appear? After all, in other areas I tap once to interact?

Take your point on the notification area... you drag it down to open the sub-menu. In other areas you use a long-press for the sub-menu, why is this different?

You get used to it, you always do with any phone, even Windows Mobile! But it gives the impression that it's not a fully polished product. Almost like the person or team that had the final say in the OS wanted to please everybody who had an idea, so used every option put to them.

(edit) I should make it clear at this point, that I'm keeping a close eye on the development of Android and it's hardware. The moment a better looking handset with a more complete OS revision is available, my iPhone will find a new home in a drawer somewhere. Whether it stays that way, who knows, but I really want to live with Android as I'm a big fan of what Google do in general. But I need the phone to work for me, so it's got to be ready.

[zeusalmighty]

Originally Posted by RobM83

Two thoughts on this bit for you... firstly, you can jailbreak your iPhone very quickly and safely and have the best of both worlds. The App Store and the unofficial community.
Secondly, there is always a risk with Open Source software will little control that you become a beta tester and risk software problems by installing software that hasn't been thoroughly tested. Perhaps a small risk, but a risk nonetheless.

Originally Posted by RobM83

Two thoughts on this bit for you... firstly, you can jailbreak your iPhone very quickly and safely and have the best of both worlds. The App Store and the unofficial community.
Secondly, there is always a risk with Open Source software will little control that you become a beta tester and risk software problems by installing software that hasn't been thoroughly tested. Perhaps a small risk, but a risk nonetheless.

Even though I try to support open source projects, I have to agree with you at some level. The iPhone OS feels more like a complete platform than the Android, but I don't realy agree with the "beta testing" comment. In the same sense, the entire iPhone 2G was a beta phone, and I know for a fact that a very large percentage of its users still feel some things are lacking. In contrast, due to open source programming, android has the potential to fix bugs and add features much faster than any mobile OS.

As a side note, I understand your comments on inconsistency about the Android platform, and up to a point you are actually right. But for me it's even wrong to contrast the two platforms, because they are completely different. The iPhone OS was built to be a polished, end-user platform, whereas the Android it being built to serve as a multi-function, multi-platform OS, which is a lot different. I had a similar discussion with a friend commenting on how "But the Android desktop looks really ugly", and he was a bit right; the home screen isn't much of a looker and has limited functionality, but theres a reason for that. Android, and most open source OS (take ubuntu for example) aren't built out of the box for a user but rather allow the user to adjust the OS to their own liking. This can be a double-edged sword, since there is a great number of users that just want a ready to pick up and use device. But the number of users that wish to accomodate their "computer" to their tastes rather than the other way around is changing, and that's the demographic Android is going to please. Anyway, I'm taking it a bit too far...

In the end, I'm probably just going to get an iPhone, mostly for the 12month PAYG free web from O2, no similar deal with G1.

Oh and, after jailbreaking, can you go back without voiding your warranty?:

[RobM]

Originally Posted by zeusalmighty

Even though I try to support open source projects, I have to agree with you at some level. The iPhone OS feels more like a complete platform than the Android, but I don't realy agree with the "beta testing" comment. In the same sense, the entire iPhone 2G was a beta phone, and I know for a fact that a very large percentage of its users still feel some things are lacking.

I'm one of those who feel some vital options are missing from the iPhone... they are well documented and mostly agreed by all though, so no point running through them again here.

Originally Posted by zeusalmighty

Oh and, after jailbreaking, can you go back without voiding your warranty?:

Yes, you can simply do a restore through iTunes to take it back to it's default state. Apple are fairly sympathetic to jailbreaking though and I've never seen a report of them turning away a warranty claim on this basis. But if in any doubt, a restore is an easy process.