[Julian Brown]

I am a Mac user on a budget. I can't afford an iPhone, much as I'd like one, but I really need to upgrade my venerable Palm Treo 600. I am currently with Orange on a pay-monthly basis but my contract has long expired.

I need a 'phone/PDA with a good address book/contacts list, calendar/diary etc. and which will sync with Address Book and iCal on my iMac.

I have been offered the HP iPaq 514 at under £100.00 but I dismissed that because it is Windows Mobile.

I also looked at a reconditioned Sony Ericsson P990i from Orange for under £100.00 but I'm not sure about that one as it might be old technology.

Any suggestions at 'phones I might look at? I can track down the best deals once I have a specific 'phone in mind.

[Jimmer]

Sorry, why would you dismiss it becasue it is windows mobile? I've had WM operated pda's and pda/phones for the last 6 years and they have been nothing but trouble free....

[Julian Brown]

Jamiefsmith, I've not dismissed the HP because it's Windows Mobile. I've dismissed it because I imagine that being Windows it's not particularly compatible with my Mac computer.

If I'm not correct, please enlighten me!

[iSix]

Syncing a WM device with a mac isn't an issue with "The missing sync for windows mobile"

Windows Mobile, meet Mac OS X
The Missing Sync for Windows Mobile lets you easily connect and synchronize Windows Mobile Smartphones and Pocket PCs with your Mac.

Features at a Glance

* Connects with Windows Mobile devices via USB and Bluetooth
* Supports devices running Windows Mobile 2002/2003/5/6
* Syncs with Address Book, iCal, Entourage 2004 and others
* Syncs Word, Excel, PowerPoint and other files
* Downloads iPhoto albums and iTunes playlists
* Imports device-side photos and video
* Encodes QuickTime video for mobile playback
* Provides drag-and-drop install of .cab-formatted applications
* Displays phone call and SMS text message logs on the Mac
* Supports two Macs and any number of Windows Mobile devices
* Universal application provides the best performance

It will however cost you $39... but it's worth it according to my friends with macs who think the iPhone is pants so turned to WM.

[itsamac]

I use a Treo 750 running Windows Mobile 6 which I sync with my MBP. To sync, I use The Missing Sync which is pretty good. It allows you to sync with Entourage, iCal, Address Book and iTunes (including playlist sync though I don't bother as it is pretty slow over Bluetooth)

Another solution is PocketMac which some of the guys on the mac subforum may be able to vouch for. I haven't used it personally so I wouldn't know how it stacks up. Also talk to the guys over at TreoCentral who have a sub-forum dedicated to syncing the Treo with the Mac.

There is also SyncMate which is free at the moment as it is in BETA.

http://www.eltima.com/products/syncmate/

If you like the Treo, I would personally recommend a Treo 680 (running Palm OS) or a 750.

[sim667]

Originally Posted by Julian Brown

I can't afford an iPhone.

Save up for an iphone or wait for it to come down in price....... its the best investment i ever made and i uses a powerbook g4 with tiger

[avinitski]

get a Nokia N95 and a data package from your network, like having a mobile mini-computer, beats an iphone or like hands down.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by avinitski

get a Nokia N95 and a data package from your network, like having a mobile mini-computer, beats an iphone or like hands down.

Let's not start that again, and if a data package is required then it would all become at iPhone price levels again...

I used to have a Nokia E65 & N95, now an iPhone. Both had absolutely no problem with my Macbook and synchronised perfectly out of the box with regards to iCal and Addressbook. Then I have also used my Macbook to backup my wife's contacts on her Nokia 6300, and for colleagues at work on a Nokia N73 and a Sony-Eriksson K800i....All work absolutely fine with the synchronisation....

Oh and nearly forgot I also used to have a T-Mobile SDAII which has windows mobile and with the missing sync that was fine too....

It starts to become less slick compared to the iPhone when you want to sync files/data other than iCal or Addressbook.....Could be possible but not that straightforward and thus not inviting enought that I was bothered ever before....Now I do carry all my 4* and higher photos, videos and music with me.....

[avinitski]

Originally Posted by dejongj

Let's not start that again, and if a data package is required then it would all become at iPhone price levels again...

not at all, only £5 a month for data package with 3.

[Moogle]

Originally Posted by avinitski

get a Nokia N95 and a data package from your network, like having a mobile mini-computer, beats an iphone or like hands down.

This is getting very old and tiring now. Neither phone beats the other one hands down and they both have their pros and cons. Which phone is better depends on the individuals expectations and wants. Personally I don't like the N95 and for me the iPhone is a far better phone for my expactaions and needs. Obviously others may feel differently.

[avinitski]

if you just want a phone dont get either.

the N95 is the clear winner for people that want more. to my knowledge the N95 does everything an iphone does plus more. the amount of applications you can install on the N95 is mind blowing.

[Moogle]

Originally Posted by avinitski

if you just want a phone dont get either.

the N95 is the clear winner for people that want more. to my knowledge the N95 does everything an iphone does plus more. the amount of applications you can install on the N95 is mind blowing.

It may have more features and options but it's a cheap phone in both looks and build. Not only that like other phones on the market it doesn't have the user friendliness or ease of use the iPhone has. Extra features are no good if the phone is cumbersome to use.

It's also no good if even if it offers more fearures they are not as easily accessible or as simple to use. The iPhone may do less but what it does do it does better then any other phone on the market including the N95. The only phone that may evedn come close to the iPhone is the SE 960i.

[Bantocks]

my 2p - i'd save up for the iphone. runs on your native operating system. also will be more scope for future apps that you can make use of.

[insomniak123]

Originally Posted by Moogle

It may have more features and options but it's a cheap phone in both looks and build. Not only that like other phones on the market it doesn't have the user friendliness or ease of use the iPhone has. Extra features are no good if the phone is cumbersome to use.

It's also no good if even if it offers more fearures they are not as easily accessible or as simple to use. The iPhone may do less but what it does do it does better then any other phone on the market including the N95. The only phone that may evedn come close to the iPhone is the SE 960i.

I don't really think you can dismiss one post and then post all your own opinions as fact. To say of the iPhone that

what it does do it does better then any other phone on the market

is quite simply a preposterous claim to make. Internet access - nope, slower. SMS - basic features missing. Camera - 2MP. Full screen Video output - nope. Music organisation - hmm, copying a mammoth library of mp4s to the SD card on my N95 isn't particularly rocket science. iTunes is on the other hand a system hog and a b*tch to navigate. Phone - touch screen, touch ear? exactly.

Describing the build quality of the N95 as cheap is also laughable and quite frankly a lie. It is the most solid phone I've ever owned, I'd like to see an iPhone survive a drop down a flight of stairs. If shiny glossy black plastic is a better choice than a solid matt plum and grey for a phone then I'll not only eat my hat I'll also eat my phone

To get the iPhone to feature some things that smartphones gobble up for breakfast, requires tools to jailbreak, modify, avoid iTunes updates. Is this more within the knowledge of the 'average' consumer than checking the nokia site for S60v3 applications which are installed much in the same way as tunes are copied to the iPhone (if not much, much easier)


The N95 syncs with a MAC just fine

[davejerome]

I would have to say that if you want to sync with a mac, really you have to a symbian device.

There are many out there, while the N95 is suppost to be the best, there are many others that are cheaper, smaller and have a better battery. But yes, they don't have GPS/5MP camera etc.

If you think you are typical mac user and like things that "just work" you have to go with symbian. Most symbian devices are built into isync, the newer ones have a isync plugin free to download on Nokia's site. Finally you can't sync itunes and iphoto with a symbian device with no hassle.

EDIT: Sorry, had a dyslexic moment!

You CAN sync without hasstle!!!

[Moogle]

Originally Posted by insomniak123

I don't really think you can dismiss one post and then post all your own opinions as fact. To say of the iPhone that is quite simply a preposterous claim to make. Internet access - nope, slower. SMS - basic features missing. Camera - 2MP. Full screen Video output - nope. Music organisation - hmm, copying a mammoth library of mp4s to the SD card on my N95 isn't particularly rocket science. iTunes is on the other hand a system hog and a b*tch to navigate. Phone - touch screen, touch ear? exactly.

Describing the build quality of the N95 as cheap is also laughable and quite frankly a lie. It is the most solid phone I've ever owned, I'd like to see an iPhone survive a drop down a flight of stairs. If shiny glossy black plastic is a better choice than a solid matt plum and grey for a phone then I'll not only eat my hat I'll also eat my phone

To get the iPhone to feature some things that smartphones gobble up for breakfast, requires tools to jailbreak, modify, avoid iTunes updates. Is this more within the knowledge of the 'average' consumer than checking the nokia site for S60v3 applications which are installed much in the same way as tunes are copied to the iPhone (if not much, much easier)


The N95 syncs with a MAC just fine

You're just contradicting yourself. I never said my opinions were fact. They are my opinions and that is how I presented them. They are another way of comparing the two phones. I went for the iPhone because it does what I want it to do and it does it better then any other phone in my opinion which may or may not be shared by others. Not only that you seem to be dismissing my opinions and stating yours as fact which is ridiculous in itself.

It is by no means a preposterous claim to make. The internet access on the iPhone is superior to that of the N95 and faster as well as more user friendly. The SMS is more then adequate for my needs and that of a lot of others. I never used my previous phones as cameras so the 2MP camera on the iPhone is not an issue for me. It does do full screen video output. iTuners is one of the most user friendly applications out there and is by no means a system hog especially on a Mac but even on a Windows PC. Navigation is a piece of cake.

The N95 is cheap in both bulld quality and looks just like all Nokia phones. Again that is my opinion and quite frankly why you're calling me a liar when it's just my opinion I don't know. I don't see an N95 surviving a drop down a flight of stairs.

iPhone is Apple's first attempt at a phone and with that in mind is a great effort. Nokia has been making phones for years and still seems to do a poor job.

Again I reiterate. You claim that I am presenting my opinions as fact when in your post you're doing exactly that. Everyone is allowed to give their opinions. That is what forums are for.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by davejerome

Finally you can't sync itunes and iphoto with a symbian device with no hassle.

Don't understand that bit....You make it sound like an advantage whilst you say it is something you can't do....

Not on my E65 nor N95 I ever attempted it as it was not clear how to do it, yet on the iPhone it is so easy and inviting....Total different league in syncing other files besides iCal and Addressbook...

Sony Ericsson is just as easy with OS-X has to be said...

[insomniak123]

Originally Posted by Moogle

1)The internet access on the iPhone is superior to that of the N95 and faster as well as more user friendly.
2)The SMS is more then adequate for my needs and that of a lot of others.
3)I never used my previous phones as cameras so the 2MP camera on the iPhone is not an issue for me.
4)I don't see an N95 surviving a drop down a flight of stairs.

1)Fact - N95 uses HSDPA, iPhone does not. N95 is faster. Fact
2)More than adequate for "a lot of users" does not make it better than a full feature set on an N95 - Fact
3)Just because you don't need it, doesn't make a 2MP camera better than a 5MP one - Fact
4)Mine has - Fact
an extra one - 5)It is easier to install a Symbian app than it is to Jailbreak an iPhone - Fact

I know people's opinions differ and that is the beauty of us mere humans, I'm not getting at you at all, those above are however not my opinions, they are facts. I just didn't want people reading your post and getting disappointed when they buy an iPhone

[dejongj]

I think you are both right

Originally Posted by insomniak123

1)Fact - N95 uses HSDPA, iPhone does not. N95 is faster. Fact

In theory it should be faster indeed, it has got all the makings to be faster. However I see where Moogle's opinion comes from, the UI is slower, the browser is awful, the general usibility stakes are not there in comparison...Thus whilst the hardware suggests it should be faster, in practise that is not necessarily the case...

I've done this test only the other week with a N95 user, just asked someone else to give a URL that neither of us had used before...I was not even on Edge and still won......

Originally Posted by insomniak123

2)More than adequate for "a lot of users" does not make it better than a full feature set on an N95 - Fact

You are a reasonable guy, and you know just as well as I that hardly anyone (compared to the number of units they've sold) uses all the functions. That is just the same argument that has been used to explain why MS-Word is so good.......But it is undeniably true that the N95 has got a fuller function set....
BTW Three people sit around me with N95's, then about 15 more with various other S60 phones...None of them have a data contract....I think compared to the general public that is quite representative opposed to a few who use it for all it has.....

Originally Posted by insomniak123

3)Just because you don't need it, doesn't make a 2MP camera better than a 5MP one - Fact

Very true, but that also does not mean it should be worse! All it means is that pictures at their native resolution are smaller.....

Originally Posted by insomniak123

4)Mine has - Fact

I've dropped my iPhone on our tiled floor in the kitchen from our worktops I can tell you my heart was pounding.....But not as much as a scratch. Sure that was only a 70cm, but if I remember science correctly than gravity and mass dictates that the energy released at impact will be the same regardless of the distance And it all depends what material the landingzone is at the bottom of the stairs, in our case it is very deep luxury carpet....

Got to admit that the glass used for the screen is quoted as the same as Rolex uses for their watches...I'm lucky enough to compare like for like and it is true...Very scratch resistant, thick and pleasant to the touch....

Originally Posted by insomniak123

an extra one - 5)It is easier to install a Symbian app than it is to Jailbreak an iPhone - Fact

Haven't tried to Jailbreak mine, and at this moment in time I will give you that one. But let's see in February 2008 when Apple releases the iPhone SDK. Although from experience I can say that I can imagine it is not all plain sailing for S60 users as there is this niggle with signed and unsigned applications, and then there is that some apps work on some S60 phones but not on others etc. If you have used apps on an S60 you know exactly what I am talking about.....

How about we try and get this back on topic again and discuss the best Mobile Phone/PDA for the Mac.....I'll kick it off again....

OS 9: Palm
OS X: iPhone

[insomniak123]

Originally Posted by dejongj

I think you are both right


In theory it should be faster indeed, it has got all the makings to be faster. However I see where Moogle's opinion comes from, the UI is slower, the browser is awful, the general usibility stakes are not there in comparison...Thus whilst the hardware suggests it should be faster, in practise that is not necessarily the case...

I've done this test only the other week with a N95 user, just asked someone else to give a URL that neither of us had used before...I was not even on Edge and still won......


You are a reasonable guy, and you know just as well as I that hardly anyone (compared to the number of units they've sold) uses all the functions. That is just the same argument that has been used to explain why MS-Word is so good.......But it is undeniably true that the N95 has got a fuller function set....
BTW Three people sit around me with N95's, then about 15 more with various other S60 phones...None of them have a data contract....I think compared to the general public that is quite representative opposed to a few who use it for all it has.....


Very true, but that also does not mean it should be worse! All it means is that pictures at their native resolution are smaller.....


I've dropped my iPhone on our tiled floor in the kitchen from our worktops I can tell you my heart was pounding.....But not as much as a scratch. Sure that was only a 70cm, but if I remember science correctly than gravity and mass dictates that the energy released at impact will be the same regardless of the distance And it all depends what material the landingzone is at the bottom of the stairs, in our case it is very deep luxury carpet....

Got to admit that the glass used for the screen is quoted as the same as Rolex uses for their watches...I'm lucky enough to compare like for like and it is true...Very scratch resistant, thick and pleasant to the touch....


Haven't tried to Jailbreak mine, and at this moment in time I will give you that one. But let's see in February 2008 when Apple releases the iPhone SDK. Although from experience I can say that I can imagine it is not all plain sailing for S60 users as there is this niggle with signed and unsigned applications, and then there is that some apps work on some S60 phones but not on others etc. If you have used apps on an S60 you know exactly what I am talking about.....

How about we try and get this back on topic again and discuss the best Mobile Phone/PDA for the Mac.....I'll kick it off again....

OS 9: Palm
OS X: iPhone

we are both right I agree. I just think facts speak louder for the greater audience than "i like it so its good"

S60 apps only don't work as there are different versions of the Symbian OS on each model. N95 is v3, (9.1) others aren't.
All the apps that you should be using will already be signed. Any you choose to find by other means and sign yourself is your own problem and you have to expect difficulties (although if you read the very simple instructions it is actually quite easy to sign apps yourself)

My N95 fell 14 stairs in work which are the hard variety, round the corner at the bottom, and onto a tiled floor. The battery fell out but cosmetic damage was non-existent.

The higher something falls from the more speed it gains (due to gravity) and therefore the more energy will be transferred when it lands (i prefer crashes ) - [potential energy]

I'll end it there, I don't want it to be an argument


The OP said he couldn't afford an iPhone so I thought it was not an option. The N95 is smooth synching with a Mac. On topic

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by insomniak123

The OP said he couldn't afford an iPhone so I thought it was not an option. The N95 is smooth synching with a Mac. On topic

Even though I now own an iPhone I can confirm that from experience....Though personally if the iPhone is not an option I would rather go for something like the SE K800i (don't know the newer K850i status tbh...)...

[sim667]

I know a few people who have just got rid of the N95 because it was buggy, also the satnav on it is rubbish

ive got an iphone, works great i love, suits my commuting needs perfectly too

the k800i worked really well with my mac, i would imagine this is true of the k850i.

clicky this is a list of isync compatible devices..... a really good bit of software is salling clicker and it my well be worth considering a device that works with that too

[Uridium]

Originally Posted by sim667

I know a few people who have just got rid of the N95 because it was buggy, also the satnav on it is rubbish

Better than the SatNav on the iPhone though

[insomniak123]

Originally Posted by sim667

I know a few people who have just got rid of the N95 because it was buggy, also the satnav on it is rubbish

ive got an iphone, works great i love, suits my commuting needs perfectly too

the k800i worked really well with my mac, i would imagine this is true of the k850i.

clicky this is a list of isync compatible devices..... a really good bit of software is salling clicker and it my well be worth considering a device that works with that too

operator-crippled firmware is what is buggy. Nokia have produced a very good phone. Operators have fiddled and buggered about with it and made it buggy.

Garmin SatNav on my N95 using its internal GPS unit is the best I've used - on the same level as a standalone [expensive] GPS unit

[Bantocks]

Originally Posted by Uridium

Better than the SatNav on the iPhone though

[ma1234]

Originally Posted by Uridium

Better than the SatNav on the iPhone though

In my experience of them both they work about the same.

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by Uridium

Better than the SatNav on the iPhone though

Originally Posted by insomniak123

operator-crippled firmware is what is buggy. Nokia have produced a very good phone. Operators have fiddled and buggered about with it and made it buggy.

Garmin SatNav on my N95 using its internal GPS unit is the best I've used - on the same level as a standalone [expensive] GPS unit

Originally Posted by binning

For every strike there can be a counter strike, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/20/nokia_firmware/. But don't you agree this whole subject is getting so boring, you like your N95's, I and others like our iPhone's...Great fine, each to their own, they have different audiences and are suited better to different needs...

So let's stop this nonsense and stick to the topic...

[sim667]

Off Topic

Originally Posted by Uridium

Better than the SatNav on the iPhone though

iPhone users dont need satnav, they know that maps arent just a blend of pretty coloured lines, thats what sets us apart

[insomniak123]

Originally Posted by dejongj

For every strike there can be a counter strike, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/20/nokia_firmware/. But don't you agree this whole subject is getting so boring, you like your N95's, I and others like our iPhone's...Great fine, each to their own, they have different audiences and are suited better to different needs...

So let's stop this nonsense and stick to the topic...

Nokia Maps (an application) and Satellite Navigation are two completely different things. I'm talking about utilising the in-built GPS chip with my own (not my own ) GPS software

iPhone users dont need satnav, they know that maps arent just a blend of pretty coloured lines, thats what sets us apart

iPhone users know something about magical talking maps, that help you when you take a wrong turn, while you're still concentrating on driving, that the rest of us are oblivious to? Care to share with us oh so ignorant Nokia users??

[dejongj]

Originally Posted by insomniak123

iPhone users know something about magical talking maps, that help you when you take a wrong turn, while you're still concentrating on driving, that the rest of us are oblivious to? Care to share with us oh so ignorant Nokia users??

Oh I can't resist anymore, the answer is simple....We have better cars with nicely integrated satnav even with heads-up display on one of the two, integrated with the stereo, bluetooth connectivity etc