[Greg]

Hi

Our company has a large Vodafone contract (20 phones) and I want to be able to track the location of the people using these phones.

A quick search on the net shows loads of companies offering this, but the problem is it needs the user to text permission back. Not only do I not want the people to know they are being tracked but the phones are ours anyway so I don't need their permission.

Is this possible?

Thanks
Greg

[Dave]

Originally Posted by Greg

Hi

Our company has a large Vodafone contract (20 phones) and I want to be able to track the location of the people using these phones.

A quick search on the net shows loads of companies offering this, but the problem is it needs the user to text permission back. Not only do I not want the people to know they are being tracked but the phones are ours anyway so I don't need their permission.

Is this possible?

Thanks
Greg

Without the consent of the phone user, I don't think so.

[paulmcg]

I would think twice about doing this - just because you pay the bill it doesn't man you have the right to do this. It is effectively an invasion of privacy. I would seek legal advice.

[Greg]

Hmm, doesn't sound like it is possible then.

The whole point is that they don't know we know where they are. You know what salesman are like. "yes, I am just near a customers now", translates to "actually, I am spending the afternoon in the garden, doing sweet FA"

Thanks anyway. I will contact my legal team and see what they have to say.

[Greg]

Spoken to our solicitors and they do not consider it illegal to track the phone without the users knowledge or consent, as the phones are our property and paid for by us.

It would only be slightly problematic if the information of someones location was used against them for example in disciplinary action. But this is not what we would do.

So any suggestions how to do this are welcome.

[Sam24]

You also have moral issues here though too, so sorry, but i'm not going to try and help you on this particular issue/problem/question.

Sam

[Dave]

I've got to be honest Greg, I work with no supervision and no one in the office knows where I am. IMO as long as the job's done then there shouldn't be a problem. If anything crops up I'm always contactable.

If I found out my boss was tracking me without my knowledge I would go absolutely mental. Not to mention the phone they were tracking me with would get inserted somewhere dark and smelly.

Sorry, I realise it's a useful tool from a supervision perspective but you either trust your staff or relationships between management and staff go out of the window.

If it's something you really need to do then I'd consult the staff it will affect because if they are aware of the implications then there are no moral or legal ramifications.

[doopydug]

Originally Posted by Sam24

You also have moral issues here though too, so sorry, but i'm not going to try and help you on this particular issue/problem/question.

Sam

Interested to know what the moral issue is - the guy just wants to know that the staff he is paying to be somewhere are actually there?

[fraggenstein]

Why not be open and honest with them and simply ask them to reply to the texts?

[abraxus]

As others have said, I believe that it is illegal to do this without consent. Usually it's done by sending an sms to the phone, to which the user has to reply. If I remember correctly these sms's have to be sent out periodically and replied to. Although I'm not sure that last bit applies to company phones.

Even though they are your property, it doesn't neccessarily mean you can use them to invade your employers privacy without their consent. If they were advised they could simply refuse to use a company phone.

Probably the only way you do it is to tell them and make it a condition of their employment.

There is a code of practice for this sort of thing that you might want to pass to your legal team:

http://www.world-tracker.com/v2/lega...OfPractice.pdf

[Sam24]

Originally Posted by doopydug

Interested to know what the moral issue is - the guy just wants to know that the staff he is paying to be somewhere are actually there?

It's about trust, and privacy, i know that i'd be angry if i found out my boss had been tracking me without my permission, like another person said earlier. To me, anyway, it's morally wrong without consent.

Sam

[beasty54]

Originally Posted by Greg

Spoken to our solicitors and they do not consider it illegal to track the phone without the users knowledge or consent, as the phones are our property and paid for by us.

It would only be slightly problematic if the information of someones location was used against them for example in disciplinary action. But this is not what we would do.

So any suggestions how to do this are welcome.

I would suggest that you get back on to your solicitors. My understanding is that actually wanting to track the phones woud be fine because they are legally yours BUT the problem lies with why your really tracking the phones. I'm 99% sure this would be classed as an invasion of privacy and you'd be leaving yourself open to all sorts of legal complications unless those employees had actually given consent to being tracked

[jian]

I don't know all of the facts, but my first response would be that your proposal is unlawful.

Any form of employee monitoring has to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998 and if I was asked to advise on this, I would say it is an infringement of the first principle of the DPA 1998, in particular the requirement of fairness.

The Information Commissioner's Office has issued guidance on this and Iyou should visit the site (www.ico.gov.uk) and check it out. The ICO has stated that any form of covert monitoring is unjustifiable. The ICO has also issued an Employment Practices Code, you should check that out as well. And if your solicitors said it was not illegal, without any qualification, they should do the same!

Just because the phones are yours, it doesn't mean you can do what you have proposed. To use an analogy, just because email accounts belong to your company, can you snoop around and read your employees emails? Only if you have warned them beforehand!

Transparency is the key!

[bibamus]

Originally Posted by Greg

I want to be able to track the location of the people using these phones.

I think you shot yourself in the foot with the above!

I suppose the acid test of whether this is legal or not ( pending a definitive answer) is to wait till someone takes exception to their every move being monitored this way and actually makes a formal complaint.

If the case were to go to court, you would get your answer then!

Saying you are only intending to track your own property is naive in the extreme; if the DPA doesnt apply, then this could be construed as a form of covert surveillance and the law is very strict on how this is carried out as in the Regulation of Investigatory Powers act 2000 ( RIPA)
Part of this act reads..... (a) surveillance is covert if, and only if, it is carried out in a manner that is calculated to ensure that persons who are subject to the surveillance are unaware that it is or may be taking place.

Of course I could be wrong, the act applies to Police and other authorities and I am not a lawyer, but if the Judge decides to interpret what has happened as similar to the carrying out of surveillance, somebody is going to up that creek without a paddle.

Its your ( and your legal depts) call. Be carefull!

Allan