[RSK21]

Hello,

Anybody out there with a sharp legal mind ?

3 months ago I took out a new 18 month contract with Orange (with whom I have been a customer for 5 years). I did this in an Orange Retail store and signed up to a £35 p/m tariff, "Raccoon" they call it, with a Nokia N80. I have the customer copy sitting in front of me which clearly states this.

Anyway my last 3 bills have been coming through at my old tarriff rate of £55 p/m and when I rang Orange CS to query they have me listed on their systems as 3 months into a new 12 month extension of my old contract.

So my question is as follows:

I have a signed confirmation of a contract which they have not fulfilled/correctly noted on their system - does this give me grounds to leave Orange as I am technically not in the contract I signed with them ?

The CS rep on the phone got a bit flustered about this question and told me I needed to go back to Oarnge retail and sort it out with them - before I head down there anybody got any views on this ?

RSK

[dingwall]

I doubt it, because a phone service isn't a physical product. It will just take two minutes to re-log the plan and your bills on the computer. If they took an unreasonably long time to rectify this or refund any over-charging, then you could make a claim to get out.

This is just how I see it - the muppets in the Orange Shop aren't going to be any wiser either, and you'd need a damn good answer as to why their solution isn't satisfactory. It's just gonna look like you want to weasel out (which let's be honest you are for whatever reason)!

Trading standards have sharpened up in recent years, give 'em a ring and/or an email. I got quite amazingly detailed legal advice within 24 hours from them on a much trickier matter than this.

PS I know lots of friends and family who were intially put on completely the wrong contract, even when buying from a new provider and online (which surely should be automated). Don't ask me why, but it seems either everyone has a problem with this or they deliberately make the 'mistake' to earn an extra bit of interest....but I'm just cynical. Yeh, ask for some interest and compensation while you're there!

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by RSK21

Hello,

Anybody out there with a sharp legal mind ?

3 months ago I took out a new 18 month contract with Orange (with whom I have been a customer for 5 years). I did this in an Orange Retail store and signed up to a £35 p/m tariff, "Raccoon" they call it, with a Nokia N80. I have the customer copy sitting in front of me which clearly states this.

Anyway my last 3 bills have been coming through at my old tarriff rate of £55 p/m and when I rang Orange CS to query they have me listed on their systems as 3 months into a new 12 month extension of my old contract.

So my question is as follows:

I have a signed confirmation of a contract which they have not fulfilled/correctly noted on their system - does this give me grounds to leave Orange as I am technically not in the contract I signed with them ?

The CS rep on the phone got a bit flustered about this question and told me I needed to go back to Oarnge retail and sort it out with them - before I head down there anybody got any views on this ?

RSK

As far as I'm aware under the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 if there is a breach of contract by the supplier, one would have to determine if Orange have in fact breached the contract by not supplying the correct service, the customer can either recind (cancel) the contract outright or agree to affirm the contract (treat it as still in existence) and claim suitable compensation. Whether this applies here is another matter but certainly they should be liable to a refund of the extra line rental you've already paid as well as making sure that the tariff is reverted to the one you have signed up for.

I'm sure if you go back to the Orange shop with your original contract everything should be sorted out for you.

BTW can I ask why its taken you 3 months to discover this?

[RSK21]

Originally Posted by dingwall

I It's just gonna look like you want to weasel out (which let's be honest you are for whatever reason)!

You are quite right

Frankly this is just the straw that broke the camels back as far as Orange and I are concerned. On reflection I should not have given them one last chance.

Reality of the situation is that the N80 which looked like a promising phone has turned out to be appalling. What really galls me is that Nokia recognise this and have pulled the phone pending a relaunch with new firmware which fixes a multitude of phone bugs - Orange however don't seem to acknowledge this nor do they offer the ability to upgrade the firmware on existing N80s to the stable new version.

One of the primary problems is that in the last 3 months I have had over 50dropped calls due to a "Connection error". CS rep did recognise this and has said will investigate. Does this count as greter ground for lack of service as per contract perhaps ?

RSK

[RSK21]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

BTW can I ask why its taken you 3 months to discover this?

Nothing but laziness on my part and foolishly thinking it would switch over automatically - have not checked my bills since and only noticed it when a DD on my account looked higher than I had expected.

[midtones]

I fell for the orange trap too, after being with them about 8yrs, their CS lately is appalling. I got the N80 on their new oddly named tariffs, as an upgrade.

The phone would reset itself, while charging, or on a call! The FW was blatantly bugged, but they would not accept that and offered another N80 (which is no use really).

I returned the phone after 2 days, argued my point for about a day with CS and the retail shop, they finally gave in and cancelled the upgrade.

My main contract is cancelled too

Try Vodafone, they had much better tarrifs (stop the clock to any number weekends and evenings) and the N73 is much better and stable.

K.

[IainW]

Hello

I had a similar situation with Orange putting me on a tariff I didn't agree to, and I had no prior knowledge of which meant my monthly bills were £15 more than they should have been.

I tried unsuccessfully on numerous occasions to speak to someone in their 'help desk' (loose term) but got nowhere.

As a last resort, I finally decided enough was enough and cancelled the standing order from my bank account, thinking that if they contacted me, I will explain the situation then.

After 4 months of unpaid bills they finally provided me with a contact number that I could call to speak to an operator to pay my bill. When I called, I explained that I had never agreed to enter into that particular contract and that under no circumstances was I going to pay the bill. They did take some convincing and I had to be adamant that this was not my fault.

However, perseverance paid off and they cancelled my outstanding credit and I took great pleasure in cancelling all contracts I had with Orange.

Not sure if what i've said helps, but the best advice is to keep at them, I sometimes think they can get away with anything as they feel their customers will not put up a fight.

Good Luck!

[neilmcl]

Originally Posted by kavster

I returned the phone after 2 days, argued my point for about a day with CS and the retail shop, they finally gave in and cancelled the upgrade.

My main contract is cancelled too

What do you mean they finally gave in, you've got 7 days to return and cancel an upgrade as standard, or is it 28

[midtones]

Originally Posted by neilmcl

What do you mean they finally gave in, you've got 7 days to return and cancel an upgrade as standard, or is it 28

If you upgrade at an Orange retail shop, you dont have any days to return it.

I quizzed them about this, if you buy Online or direct from Orange over the phone you get 7/14 days.

They said because new customers can try Orange for 7/14 days. I argued that I had been a Orange customer for 8+ years and I was being treated like crap. I got my way eventually.

K.

[woody67]

You have had a contract and used it (benefited from it) for three months, and the only issue is one of £60 overpayment on your part.

This is easily rectified and I can't see how you can claim is is so serious a breach as to frustrate the whole contract.

You could cancel your DD and terminate the contract and invite them to sue you, but it would be risky and I doubt you will succeed. This would also effect your credit rating, so get another phone first if you do this.

[RSK21]

Woody

You seem to have firm views on this - what's your opinion on the level of "fit for purpose" or otherwise of the N80 - a phone so inadequate the manufacturers have discontinued it but Orange will not recognise that.

I know these are all technicalities but I am just so annoyed at Orange and I feel that they are taking the P out of me and many others with this kind of attitude. When I noticed the contract error I wanted to investigate whether it was a potential loophole. Seems that maybe it's not so perhaps I'll try and find another.

I just don't think that they should get away with such a shoddy approach to service.

RSK

[woody67]

I don't know about the N80, but is it just some annoying things or does it really not work at all? If it was that bad technically, then I assume that it would have been recalled by all the companies

It may be more likely that it was withdrawn simply because it was not popular with users. Quirky as apposed to unfit?

It may be difficult for one person to claim the phone is not fit for purpose. If it was unfit, then there would be lots of returns (and an acknowledgement that it was unfit) and this would be well known. If I had your N80 and it made a call and recieved a call, then I would deem it fit for my purpose.

I had a similar case years back with Orange when my Startac dropped lots of calls. I wanted to swap it for a recently released Nokia 702, but all Orange would do was keep swapping the phone. After 4 tries I got a working unit and was really happy with it.

Not meaning this to turn into a orange slagging thread, but i have been interested to read that others are too having problems orange.

I too have had an account with orange including three different phones for roughly 9 years now, and find that the customer service these days is awful. Currently looking to move my custom to another network and reading lots of threads for other peoples views.

Good luck with your problem RSK21. I would pesonally tell them that you are not happy and you wish to cancel the contract. Do they still do the "virgin tariff" that is free each month and all you pay for is the calls you make? If so and they won't let you cancel your contract, just change it to this tariff, as i am sure you can change your tariff month to month.

[RSK21]

It goes from bad to worse.

Orange CS effectively told me that they did not believe me that I had changed tarriff at the time of my upgrade to the N80. They said that they I had to go to an Orange store where a sales rep would verify my receipt.

So off I trekked off and sat for 30 mins in store whilst the store rep (v helpful and pleasant it has to be said) confirmed that yes I did have a £35 contract receipt but was being billed £55. At the end of all this I was told CS would call me back.

So I received the call back to be triumphantly told that I had had my contract changed "Good news Mr Knight I've managed to change your tarriff for the duration of the contract" - Great I say now what about the fact that I am 3 months out of pocket becuse of your original cock up ? "Oh I'll need to get back to you on that I just thought you wanted your tarriff changed". As yet no word........

I am just about at the end of my tether with this !

[neilmcl]

How can it be "bad to worse", they've put you back on the tariff you originally wanted and are now looking into sorting out your overpayment, I would have thought it was not quite there yet but getting better.

Lets not forget the reason that you're 3 months out of pocket is because as you openly admitted you were too lazy to sort it out earlier.

[RSK21]

Originally Posted by RSK21

Nothing but laziness on my part and foolishly thinking it would switch over automatically - have not checked my bills since and only noticed it when a DD on my account looked higher than I had expected.

@Neil

The key here is surely - foolishly thinking it would switch over automatically

I think I have every right to expect such a transition to happen automatically as part of the overall customer experience. I admit I didn't check my bills to determine it had been actioned but nonetheless should I really need to ? To pre-empt your response it seems the answer is yes

What had made me really annoyed about this development is that I would expect as a matter of course Orange would amend the tariff AND apply a credit concurrently. I object hugely to the attitude of the CS rep which effectively implied he was doing me a favour by changing my talk plan rather than rectifying an Orange mistake.

Why do I say from bad to worse ? - well perhaps I'm getting a little over emotional about this but this is just the latest in a long line of Orange CS mishaps. I've been a long time customer and spent a lot of money with them over the years (well over £100pm average pre the tarriff change) and over recent months I've seen a steady decline in their overall service. You'll note that others who have responded to this thread have expressed similar sentiments.

Are you an Orange customer ?