[stevegreen]

Just a heads up really.

I normally get my Orange account and look quickly at it and chuck it away, but this month I notice that from July they will be charging for the priviledge of having an itemised bill and you have to let them know if you don't want it.

If you don't let them know then they just start charging the £1.50 each month

Have to say that my recent experiences with Orange means that I will be cancelling my contract as soon as possible!

[gaanrowl]

i have just re joined orange and this comes as an annoying shock i will have to phone orange c/s thanks for the info

[The Affs]

Also - I recently upgraded on Orange onto an online tariff - this automatically means that you won't get a paper bill, it is online only.

Of course, they don't tell you that, I was wondering where my bill was! Thought it had been lost in the post!

[gaanrowl]

is the online bill itemised

[mills04]

I just got my first bill from Orange on my new contract which I set up to get an N80.

Says at the bottom of mine to text them and they will not send a bill anymore and save £1.50. However they have gone and changed my tariffs from the 500 texts and 100mins to 300mins and 100 texts for no reason! So I have to ring them when my mum's home (in her name) and get them to change it back and if they don't, then theres gonna be some shouting.

Not very impressed by Orange now.

[stevegreen]

Originally Posted by mills04

Not very impressed by Orange now.

I have been completely unimpressed with Orange for a while.

Poor/intermittant coverage where I live

Not replacing a faulty phone even though it was under guarantee, because it is over 6 months old.

Telling me they can send it off for repair for a £14 charge

Staff in shops generally unhelpful

Changing the goalposts re: itemised billing


My business will definitely be going elsewhere!

[ebury]

Is this not the same as when t-mobile started charging itemised billing,and everyone cancelled as it was against their T&C's???

If you have signed for a contract period(12/18 months)you are legaly bound by it,so if orange start charging extra,just cancel and take your business elsewhere

Does anyone know if this would be the case??

[mills04]

Originally Posted by stevegreen

I have been completely unimpressed with Orange for a while.

Poor/intermittant coverage where I live

Not replacing a faulty phone even though it was under guarantee, because it is over 6 months old.

Telling me they can send it off for repair for a £14 charge

Staff in shops generally unhelpful

Changing the goalposts re: itemised billing


My business will definitely be going elsewhere!

I've heard that it went pretty poor after French Telecom took them over, I've always had really good service from them - well compared to when I had a '3' handset!.

I often forget to check my online account but will have to now because I'm not paying an extra £1.50 a month to have it posted to me - what the hell do Orange think they are playing at?

I'm hoping that Orange will sort out my tariff thing and credit some money to my account for the inconvienence. If not, I'll refuse to pay their direct debits.

Sorry to hijack your thread, may the grass be greener on the otherside for you - well less orange

[Dubster]

Originally Posted by ebury

Is this not the same as when t-mobile started charging itemised billing,and everyone cancelled as it was against their T&C's???

If you have signed for a contract period(12/18 months)you are legaly bound by it,so if orange start charging extra,just cancel and take your business elsewhere

Does anyone know if this would be the case??

Not with orange.They changed their t&c's recently which now classes itemised billing as 'extras' and not part of your monthly contract As they are not actually raising the contract price you cant cancel

[mills04]

Anyone know the direct number for Orange in the UK? - I keep getting put through to India and the person on the other end said she would put me on hold to look at my account and there I was waiting for 25mins and still nothing.

Do you think its rude if I get put through to India to ask for an English call centre? - my mum seems to think that they will think I'm being racist and cut me off.

[HarryBarton]

it's not racist, you want to speak to someone who can answer your bloody question

these indian call centres are incompetent in my experience and just bark off a few phrases from a website.

[mills04]

Originally Posted by HarryBarton

it's not racist, you want to speak to someone who can answer your bloody question

these indian call centres are incompetent in my experience and just bark off a few phrases from a website.

I've now rung 3 times today, twice I was put on hold and after 30mins waiting, I couldn't be bothered to wait any longer. Rung during Half Time of the England game and was told I'd get a phone call back about it. Nothing. I'm writing a strongly worded letter to Orange management now, its disgraceful.

[mills04]

Just rang them, they pretty much refused to transfer me to an English call centre stating that "they didn't have the facilities to do so". Was told to try ringing 150 again and seeing if I got through to an English call centre.

The guy, however helpful still didn't reassure me that my contract is indeed the one I signed up for. He told me that the bill was printed wrongly and that a note has been left on the system.

He wouldn't send me written acknowledgement that I was on the tariff I wanted and said that I would see it on the bill on 15th July.

Definately going to write to Orange HQ and probably go into Orange Shop at the weekend just to confirm, otherwise I will be looking at a high bill next month if they have screwed up on the texts.

Sorry, this reply has taken the thread completely off topic.

[Azzin]

I think this is completely outrageous.

I am on Orange Premier & pay £50 odd £'s per month.

When I took out muy contract (& let's remember contracts work 2 ways) itemised billing was part of the package, so surely they can't now start charging?

What's next "We're reducing the amount of minutes that you signed up for"?

Bad move by Orange.

[Azzin]

Originally Posted by gaanrowl

is the online bill itemised

Apparently so.

[Azzin]

Ok,

I put this to a legal eagle friend of mine, & here's what he had to say....

Having quickly studied the T&Cs I would comment as follows:

15 CHANGES TO YOUR CONTRACT

15.1 (part thereof). ... We do, however, reserve the right to vary the terms of this Contract from time to time and to make changes to your Service Plan. We acknowledge that if we do increase the Charges, withdraw Orange Additional Services or introduce new mandatory Charges - or if your contractual rights are affected to your detriment - you may terminate your Contract in accordance with Condition 4.3. If you do not give notice within one month of our notifying you of any change(s), you will be taken to have accepted the change(s).

This clearly gives you the option to cancel (whilst not ideal it will afford you some leverage for your argument). If your contract stipulated or included "free itemised billing" and this formed a core element of your decision to subscribe to Orange then simply point out this fact to them and that you consider them to be in breach of their obligations under the contract and ask how they would propose to remedy this. When they don't offer a remedy then suggest that a continuance of your terms and agreed service levels "as was" would be considered a satisfactory remedy to you.

If they insist that they are within their rights to breach the original terms / agreement then cite their own T&Cs

19.1 changes to your Contract
Subject to Condition 15, your Contract may be varied or amended only by the express mutual agreement of both parties. A party seeking to rely on such variation or amendment must produce evidence of the other party's agreement to it.

and advise them formally that you do not accept the contractual legality of their proposed change and that their implementation of any such change will be deemed a breach of their existing contract with you (hopefully you have your original contract). If you refuse, point blank, to give your express mutual agreement to a new term they cannot start charging you for a service they undertook to provide as free under the terms of your original contract.

If they give you the old "If you don't like it you can cancel" routine then I'd advise you to cite the unfair terms in consumer credit agreements.

Ultimately if they are not prepared to acknowledge the legitimacy of your contract with them and their obligations and undertakings thereunder and the only option the are prepared to afford you is a cancellation then this is quite obviously an "unfair term".

By way of an aside you might wish to point out to them, in much the same fashion as I did with NTL, that they are obliged by law to provide you with any such information under the DPA. This will cost you £10.00 max (a considerable saving of £8.00 on their proposed charge for 12 months).

Put them on notice that rather than pay them for a service which they offered , and you subscribed to, on the basis that it was free, you will make a formal request under the DPA at the end of 12 months and that you will cite the appropriate exemption clauses ie.

Part IV Exemptions

35. - (1) Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is required by or under any enactment, by any rule of law or by the order of a court.

(2) Personal data are exempt from the non-disclosure provisions where the disclosure is necessary-

(a) for the purpose of, or in connection with, any legal proceedings (including prospective legal proceedings), or

(b) for the purpose of obtaining legal advice,

Tell them that in the event of an overcharge being identified in the data they provide you with that you reserve your right to seek legal advice with regards to recompense.

They cannot refuse to supply you with the data once you cite this exemption and state that you will seek legal advice in the event of the aforementioned.

If sufficient numbers of people exercise their rights in this regard then I don't think it would be too long before Orange realize that the overhead costs of having to establish and staff a Department solely to deal with customers exercising their legal right to information held on them (along with the added risk factor of fines in the event of their non-compliance within 40 days per request) far outweighs any potential profit they might hope to garner from trying to redraft, to their fiscal advantage, the contracts of existing customers who signed up (in part or in whole) to the lure / promise of free itemised billing.

I'd put this in writing if I were you rather than deal with some of the poor frontline staff. The usual "Angry rules" apply - go straight to the top and make them earn their money.

Hope that helps.

This guy totally knows his stuff, & was I believe involved in the Stephen Hone 'bank charges' case that has turned the banks on their heads regarding what they charge for late payment fees.

[windfall]

Azzin - I too am on a 'Premier Contract@ and it pi44es me off that they charge you for using a credit card as well.

My avergage spend is about £1500 a year with orange and they are taking the mick out of me - I have been with them 11 years now.

Assomeone else stated the service was good until the french got involved and since then its gone down hill.

If I see an itemised biling charge I will call them up and tell em I am voting with my feet and walk to another SP preferably one where I can use web/data inclusive in a £50 package per month.

Orange are like the government stealth charges etc. I too find the call centres annoying (im indian!) and they get up my nose because in some cases it is difficult to discuss issues.

Makes me MAD!

Tone

[Azzin]

Well I emailed the CEO, & despite getting a read receipt the same day (last Thursday) he didn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge my email.

Anyway, rather than let him get away with that, I forwarded my email to the rest of the Orange directors apologising for having to involve them but seeing as their CEO had read my mail & not even replied to it I felt I had no choice!

30 minutes later I received a phone call from the Orange Executive Office apologising & telling me that I was an Orange Premier customer I would not be charged for itemised billing.

When I queried that fact that it was on my bill, & the fact that I had rung Orange Premier only to be told there was "nothing they could do" the lady was even more confused....

Anyway-I'm not paying for itemised billing so that's all that matters!

Mission accomplished.

[KoThreads]

First time here and i've got a right balls-up going on.

Joined Orange last week (Freeserve/wanadoo/orange broadband customer who took up the free change over BB package with mobile offer) after being with Virgin for years.

I knew there could be problems after the guy told me they were overloaded by the offer and could hardly cope.

But bill arrived today telling me itemised billing is to be charged, My brother didn't mention this when i asked him about orange, he has been with them a fair while. And all the extra txts/call minutes wrong.

Mobile bill taken from bank, And they charged my CC for my free broardband the same day

What a start.

[cracker]

when i phoned up orange to activate my phone and get my broadband changed to free i told the girl i was recording the conversation for evidence incase of future problems lol

i made her repeat back to me exactly what free minutes/txts i would be getting and that my current broadband payment would be cancelled and i wouldnt have any more payments taken

[Lester]

Originally Posted by Azzin

Well I emailed the CEO, & ... I forwarded my email to the rest of the Orange directors

Could you give me their addresses as I'm having no luck with customer services on an unrelated matter. PM me if you'd rather not post here. Thanks.

[Azzin]

Originally Posted by Lester

Could you give me their addresses as I'm having no luck with customer services on an unrelated matter. PM me if you'd rather not post here. Thanks.

I've seen the Sky directors mail addresses posted here countless times so I don't see a problem posting the Orange ones.

CEO: sanjiv.ahuja@orange.co.uk

Directors: steve.olive@orange.co.uk, Bernard.Ghillebaert@orange.co.uk, frank.boulben@orange.co.uk

Good luck.

[Lester]

It's always best to go straight to the top. Many thanks.

[Matt Horne]

Not sure why they are inundated with the BB offer.. wow a whole 2gb a month limit to use..

[cracker]

Originally Posted by Matt Horne

Not sure why they are inundated with the BB offer.. wow a whole 2gb a month limit to use..

but those who are already on wanadoo/orange bb know that the limit isnt enforced

[KoThreads]

Originally Posted by cracker

but those who are already on wanadoo/orange bb know that the limit isnt enforced

Ditto. I go over it every month and never had anything sent about it, and as it's now free (I hope) it would be daft not to.

Cracker has your free Livebox turned up? and if so how long did it take?

[KoThreads]

Why does it always happen to me?

Spent nearly 2 hours on the phone to Orange only to be told my free broadband service hasn't been done!

Worse than that despite me having my order number which states 'free broadband up to 8 meg' they know nothing about it and only have my existing package on file.

Now I've got to find the activation email with the number on it to do it, and i haven't got the email, and no one on the phone system will let me have it. MADNESS.

[cracker]

Originally Posted by Idoexist

Ditto. I go over it every month and never had anything sent about it, and as it's now free (I hope) it would be daft not to.

Cracker has your free Livebox turned up? and if so how long did it take?

the woman on the phone said that the livebox may take up to 28 days to arrive (due to the large number of people signing up)

luckily i already have a wireless router in my house so i dont really need the livebox, but i will probably plug a phone into it to make use of the free phonecalls

OK for all you people out there livid at the fact that Orange just decide to increase the Itemised Billing charge from £0 to £1.50 mid way your 12 /18 month contract, this is how to make sure they do not get away with it.

Below is exactly how to do this (tested and works).

Tested on this case: mid 12 month contract, with 300 to 600 minute usage.

How to go about it:

1) Write in requesting that they cancel your contact in accordance with Clause 15.1 and 4.3 of my contract as they are increasing charges for Itemised Billing from £0 to £1.50. The contact can be downloaded from the main page of the orange web site at the very bottom where it says "terms and conditions" Request that they contact you with your PUK code so you can take your number with you and that due to the fact that they are causing this that no charges and penalties should be incurred by you.

2) They will write back saying one of the following: a) That itemised billing (charge or free) is not part of the contract. b) They are not increasing the charge as you do not have to have the Itemised Bill as you can opt out or download it free from the account area of the orange web site. They may also say that if you want to cancel you have to buy yourself out of the contract.

3) You then write to them opening an "Official Complaint" (important that you say this) informing them that you do not agree with their assessment of the situation and that you require them to cancel the contract and if they do not accept to do this you require them to send you a letter saying that the complaint has come to "deadlock" or "lockout", otherwise known as a Deadlock / Lockout letter. You inform them that you will be contacting CISAS (COMMUNICATIONS & INTERNET SERVICES ADJUDICATION SCHEME, they can be contacted on 02074217432).

4) At this point someone from orange WILL have already contacted you. They will offer to refund the itemised bill for the rest of the contact and if you request it they will cancel your contact.


FAQ

COMMUNICATIONS & INTERNET SERVICES ADJUDICATION SCHEME (CISAS):
These people take complaints that can not be resolved and decide who is right. Orange does NOT want it to get to them and will settle with you before then. Only contact CISAS if they have given you a lockout / deadlock letter and have not offered you anything.

Address to write to orange on:
Correspondence Department
PO Box 10
Pachway
Bristol
BS32 4BQ


Official Complaint:
It is important to rase an "Official Complaint" and get a Echo number to track it with.


TIPS and TRICKS

Orange will never accept fault or that they are in breach of contract.
Be firm but polite at all times.
Do NOT at any point show any doubt that you are correct and they are wrong.
Do not ask for unreasonable things. In this situation waving the Itemised Billing charge till the end of the contact id fair and termination of the contract is fair.

[Azzin]

Great post.

Welcome to the madhouse!