[mjcairney]

Whilst I originally put this post as reply to the thread "Fancy previewing LG's latest Plasmas" started by LG Blog, having given it some more thought, I reckon that it is probably better to give it its own thread title so that perhaps more people may see and read it.

I should also stress that I am not by any stretch of the imagination decrying LG (we do have one of their washing machines, which has caused us no problems whatsoever)) or its Plasma TVs, but rather I am trying to make them aware that they have work to do to establish themselves in the Plasma Market.

Whilst I appreciate that you are based in London and that is why your launch event is there, I have to question why something similar could not be held in Scotland, either Glasgow or Edinburgh as, between them and surrounding areas, there must be a population of around 2,000,000 which I would have thought would be a pretty good potential catchment area.

The reason I say this is that I am currently considering replacing my 3.5 year old Pioneer 5th generation plasma with a full 1080p model, and am therefore looking to see what is available. The only chance I have of seeing an LG plasma is in shops like Currys, Dixons or Comet and, as we all know, they tend to stick them up on shelves with every other model of TV available and switch them on, without any particular attention being paid to the quality of picture. Also, it is impossible to see how they work through different sources, as generally (if not always) there only is the one source available to each set, be it Sky, Freeview, DVD or, occasionally, a Blu-Ray disk.

LG need to realise that they do not have a reputation for Plasma TVs like, e.g, Pioneer or Panasonic and therefore, if their new Plasmas are as a good as they would have us believe, they have a lot or work to do to make Joe Public sit up and take notice.

Take my case as an example. As already stated, I have a 3.5 year old 5th generation Pioneer plasma, with which I am pretty happy, as it gives a very acceptable picture using SD fare from my Sky HD box via HDMI - it also gives a very tolerable picture from Freeview via my Pioneer HDD/DVD recorder, and gives a fairly good HD picture, either from Sky HD channels or my Toshiba HD DVD player.

The reason I say a fairly good HD picture is that I know that the latest 8th and 9th generation Pioneers are much better, using all their latest technologies. How do I know this? Because I can go into specialist AV shops to get a demonstration, and therefore see for myself. I cannot do this with LG, at least not anywhere I know of in Scotland, so that leaves me with the aforementioned stores which, if we're all being 100% honest, are pretty much a waste of time for reasons already stated, and as most people who buy there tend to make buying decisions based on aesthetics, price, etc., rather than on the quality of the picture being delivered by the different TVs.

The only way I can find out how good the new LG Plasmas really are is to buy one. The worry then is that I take it home, connect it up and end up disappointed with the quality perhaps of the SD picture. What do I do then? I have just spent around £1,600 and am unhappy with my purchase. I then have the hassle of trying to get the retailer to take it back. Believe me, that is hassle I do not want, and reckon it's safe to say neither does anyone else.

So LG, what am I saying in this rather long winded post? I am challenging you to do whatever it takes to convince me, and the general public, that your new plasmas are worthy of my money.

Over to you.

Cheers,

Martin.

[Barzo]

I'd second this sentiment, and suggest the same for all its display products. LG needs to establish links with more specialist dealers. It is interesting to see that Richer Sounds now stock a good line of LG displays, but not all RS stores will have demo facilities. When I bought my current LG LCD, it was a 'shot in the dark', and, to be honest, I only did so because I had had a bad experience with S-PVA panel based products from other manufacturers. I had nowhere to properly demo the TV, and it is just blind luck that I actually find it to be such a good and competitive product. It was not, by a long shot, the first display I thought of, but would now highly recommend it to potential purchasers. This cannot be how LG want to proceed.

Plus, one of the key selling points of all these new sets (LCD and Plamsa) is their user calibration options. If LG really expect that some of the big warehouse stores like Currys have staff that can explain the advantages of a well calibrated screen, they need to take a reality check. Indeed, features like ISF ready Expert modes are not something that will appeal to the general buying public, but are clearly designed to appeal to more demanding consumers. If so, get the sets in somewhere they can be demonstrated as such. If brand perception is something that LG are serious about, then they need to be available in specialist retailers, where their values and appeal can be judged against established brands like Pioneer and Panasonic. Cabinet design and price are factors for some buyers, but for enthusiasts, PQ will come first (just as for audiophiles, sound quality is much more important than anything else), and LG cannot expect high volume sales from enthusiasts without them having a chance to view LG products in all their glory.

[mjcairney]

Thanks for your support here.

Still looking forward to a reply from someone with an LG connection.

Cheers,

Martin.

[LG UK]

Apologies for my late reply - there are a lot of points to talk about and I didn't want to rush a reply.

First of all, I totally appreciate the point about being based in the south-east. If we had infinite resources and time we would definitely provide & show at major cities outside of the south-east of England. Instead we have to prioritise and the capital comes top of that list, I'm afraid.

But we take the whole of the country very seriously and as a result we invest a lot of time and money in product trainers who do travel the length & breadth of the country training in-store staff in depth about the features of LG TVs and making sure they're set to the best settings to highlight their features. So although you're apprehensive about the likes of Currys and Comet, you might be pleasantly surprised about the quality of salesmanship if you pay a visit.

That said, if you still prefer a specialist dealer and feel that a specific dealer doesn't have a proper provision of LG TVs, or that their demo facilities are underprovided, then by all means let me know who they are - either here or PM or email (chris AT lgblog.co.uk) and I'll pass it on to the appropriate person.

Apologies again for the tardy reply & have a good weekend,

Chris

[mjcairney]

And apologies for me not getting back straight away, and for the fact that I do not have time today to compose a proper reply which, hopefully, I'll get time to do either Sunday or Monday.

Meanwhile, thanks for your reply and kind regards.

You too have a good weekend.

Cheers.

Martin.

[wess74]

Hi LGBlog,

I bought one of this years plasma models back in May (42PG6000), but due to the shocking amount of IR i returned it after only one day. It's a real shame because they are great looking sets with alot of neat functions, only let down by the poor black levels in low ambiant light.

After reading alot of posts regarding this issue with others owners i challenge you to put this right before the 2009 models are released.

All the best

[mjcairney]

Originally Posted by LG Blog

Apologies for my late reply - there are a lot of points to talk about and I didn't want to rush a reply.

First of all, I totally appreciate the point about being based in the south-east. If we had infinite resources and time we would definitely provide & show at major cities outside of the south-east of England. Instead we have to prioritise and the capital comes top of that list, I'm afraid.

But we take the whole of the country very seriously and as a result we invest a lot of time and money in product trainers who do travel the length & breadth of the country training in-store staff in depth about the features of LG TVs and making sure they're set to the best settings to highlight their features. So although you're apprehensive about the likes of Currys and Comet, you might be pleasantly surprised about the quality of salesmanship if you pay a visit.

That said, if you still prefer a specialist dealer and feel that a specific dealer doesn't have a proper provision of LG TVs, or that their demo facilities are underprovided, then by all means let me know who they are - either here or PM or email (chris AT lgblog.co.uk) and I'll pass it on to the appropriate person.

Apologies again for the tardy reply & have a good weekend,

Chris

I take your point re the fact that you work with limited resources and that therefore you cannot cover the country as you may wish to, but you have to accept therefore that that very much leaves you in the hands of people who have no brand loyalty to LG whatsoever and that, no matter what you may like to believe, sales people in the likes of Currys and Comet cannot possibly have expertise in washing machines, dishwashers, cookers, computers, plasmas, LCDs, etc., etc., etc., much less on any particular brand.

If you really do take the rest of the country very seriously, I don't think you'd be relying on the big electrical retailers as, personally, I have never gone into one of those kind of shops and received expert information on any type of equipment that they sell. Furthermore, I can tell you, I have heard some absolute nonsense being spoken by some of them, to the point, having been a salesman for a good part of my working life, where I cringe. Another point, I just can't imagine a sales person in one of those stores mentioning ISF calibration, can you? More to the point, I would seriously doubt that most of them even know what it is. That is not to decry them as, like I mentioned before, they have far too large a product range to sell to ever become expert in one of them.

Personally, if I were involved in the marketing of your new plasmas, I'd be making appointments with all the AV specialist stores and, let's be honest, it's not as if they're on every street corner and therefore impossible to make contact with them all, to arrange to get the equipment in for a thorough demonstration with a view to getting them on board as approved LG resellers. There really are many things you could do with limited resources to help convince people like me that your new range is as good as George Mead would have us believe from the video produced with Phil Hinton for AVForums.com and, to do that, you need to look outside the box.

Over to you.

Cheers,

Martin.

[Barzo]

Originally Posted by mjcairney

Personally, if I were involved in the marketing of your new plasmas, I'd be making appointments with all the AV specialist stores and, let's be honest, it's not as if they're on every street corner and therefore impossible to make contact with them all, to arrange to get the equipment in for a thorough demonstration with a view to getting them on board as approved LG resellers. There really are many things you could do with limited resources to help convince people like me that your new range is as good as George Mead would have us believe from the video produced with Phil Hinton for AVForums.com and, to do that, you need to look outside the box.

Again, I agree absolutely. Currys, Comet et al are just not able to deliver the sort of service that an AV specialist can deliver, and while the big box shifters may be very useful in terms of volume sales, and giving floor space to LG products, I'm afraid my experience of them (and, shudder, listening to the advice they give others) means that they cannot be relied upon to sell the benefits of any product. For example, in a local Currys I heard the salesman say that ISF mode meant that the set was instantly set to give you the best picture. The idea of specialist resellers works for the big brands in the UK - Pioneers' range of products is an excellent example, which are available through Currys et al, but also through the independents.

I am aware that LG are not pursuing the same 'premium product' strategy as Pioneer, but if products are to sell on performance, rather than simply good looks and a good price, then it really is essential to get them into dealers where they can be demonstrated. LG may want to consider that, given they have brand reputation to build in the UK, a sales strategy that does not include the independents will continue the perception that (and let's not mince words) LG is a mass market, second tier company, whose stuff is ok, and good value for money, but not up with the better AV brands in terms of technology or performance. This has to be addressed.

Again, I repeat that I am a happy LG Scarlet LCD TV owner. The only issues I have had with my set are down to the tech, not the TV (i.e. ok blacks, motion blur), and even then both are still good. [EDIT: There is another small issue with sound drop-out/stutter from the internal tuner: see http://www.avforums.com/forums/showt...2#post7771712].
The ability to tweak settings independently per input is such an excellent feature, and makes a real difference to performance. It was this that made me take a chance on a LG, and I don't regret it, and I only found out about this key feature by judicious research on my part. I will say that the current LG website is excellent (I love the feature videos, etc), but all the advertising hype in the world is no substitute for seeing the set in all its glory. I might consider upgrading to one of the new Plasmas, to improve on my movie viewing, but, like others here, I am not going to shell out that much cash until I can see it calibrated and against other brands.

[mjcairney]

Hi LG Blog, just to give you an idea as to where I am coming from here, have a read at this post.

He is a happy chappy who had the opportunity to see the TV's for himself, and to see them with different feeds, rather than the one we always get in the large retailers already mentioned earlier.

I don't for one moment doubt that you knew exactly what I meant but, having just by chance read that post, I just realised how relevant it was to my post here.

Cheers,

Martin.

[vipergrm]

Originally Posted by wess74

Hi LGBlog,

I bought one of this years plasma models back in May (42PG6000), but due to the shocking amount of IR i returned it after only one day. It's a real shame because they are great looking sets with alot of neat functions, only let down by the poor black levels in low ambiant light.

After reading alot of posts regarding this issue with others owners i challenge you to put this right before the 2009 models are released.

All the best

I agree with Wess74. It would seem that you are side-stepping this question regarding image retention on the PG6000.

There is quite a number of people concerned about this issue (see Image Retention in PG6000 series which I believe you are already aware of) and I know for a fact that many people have been put off buying the PG6000 set because of the severe image retention. Everything else regarding this set is superb, but this is a major concern as LG do not appear to be concerned about this. I and a few others have already contacted LG concering this but have been displaced by a quite frankly, uselss template reply that is of no use and does not address the problem. Please, please acknowledge this and advise what we can do to resolve the problem. Is this issues with certain model numbers? Is it simply how the PG6000 panel performs? We would appreciate some answers. Thread creator - apologies for hijacking.

Thanks

[mjcairney]

Originally Posted by vipergrm

I agree with Wess74. It would seem that you are side-stepping this question regarding image retention on the PG6000.

There is quite a number of people concerned about this issue (see Image Retention in PG6000 series which I believe you are already aware of) and I know for a fact that many people have been put off buying the PG6000 set because of the severe image retention. Everything else regarding this set is superb, but this is a major concern as LG do not appear to be concerned about this. I and a few others have already contacted LG concerning this but have been displaced by a quite frankly, useless template reply that is of no use and does not address the problem. Please, please acknowledge this and advise what we can do to resolve the problem. Is this issues with certain model numbers? Is it simply how the PG6000 panel performs? We would appreciate some answers. Thread creator - apologies for hijacking.

Thanks

No problem.

Cheers,

Martin.

[mjcairney]

Hi LG Blog,

I do hope that you realise that I am hoping for answers to previously made points.

Cheers,

Martin.

[wess74]

Cmon LGblog, pull your finger out......

I hope you guys realise that if you can sort the horrifc IR and black levels out, your sales next year i'm sure would elevate quite rapidly.

I recently saw your video on AVForums.tv and was quite impressed by the ambition LG are showing. However, unless you guys can sort out these basic issues, i'm afraid you have NO CHANCE IMHO of gaining a larger slice of the flat screen pie.

Apologies again to the thread creator.

[mjcairney]

Originally Posted by wess74

Cmon LGblog, pull your finger out......

I hope you guys realise that if you can sort the horrifc IR and black levels out, your sales next year i'm sure would elevate quite rapidly.

I recently saw your video on AVForums.tv and was quite impressed by the ambition LG are showing. However, unless you guys can sort out these basic issues, i'm afraid you have NO CHANCE IMHO of gaining a larger slice of the flat screen pie.

Apologies again to the thread creator.

No problem.

There seem to be quite a few unhappy LG customers around here, which is not what I started this thread for but, for some reason, LG Blog seem unwilling to come back and answer my questions, plus those being asked by others as well and I do know that LG Blog have been on line, as I saw an answer left by them to a quite simple question yesterday.

All I can say here to LG Blog is, if you think you can brush problems under the carpet by ignoring questions, then you need to realise that this is a public forum, accessed by 2,000,000 unique visitors last month and that you do yourself absolutely no favours by your seeming reluctance to address awkward points.

As I've said before, over to you.

Cheers,

Martin.

[LG UK]

Hi everybody,

I'm sorry I missed out on the replies to this thread since my last one - last week was very busy and with one of us off sick (there are only two of us working here on AVForums so when one's off the other's workload is doubled). I logged on several times last week to look at new questions & answer some old ones, but missed the updates to this thread.

wess74 - I'm sorry to hear your 42PG6000 suffered from IR after just one day, that shouldn't be happening at all in such a short space of time and I suspect it's an extreme aberration rather than a typical experience.

That said it is clear you're not the only one who has suffered from IR problems on the PG6000. I read through the thread & have collated the various contributions - specifically ones from wess74 and bossc@, including the screencaps provided.

I've forwarded them on to the relevant people. However there are various departments - customer service, product design, marketing etc. - who are involved with this, and so the proceedings can take some time - an age compared to how a forum moves, and I can appreciate the frustration you may have - we try to be quick as possible but we're never going to match the speed of conversation here, which is like the speed of light in comparison.

As of right now (Monday 1ish) I'm still waiting a reply from the relevant person but it is in hand I assure you.

As for pulling my finger out - duly noted and I promise to be more responsive in future.

Thanks once again for taking the time over this,

Chris

[LG UK]

Oops, forgot to reply to Barzo et al. about the specialist stores. In short, I personally think it's a good idea - I think LG should be as dedicated to keeping specialist stores as much as the big chains. I can't make any promises just yet but I will be strongly recommending it - I'll even borrow some quotes from your post to press the point, if that's OK for you.

[mjcairney]

Originally Posted by LG Blog

Oops, forgot to reply to Barzo et al. about the specialist stores. In short, I personally think it's a good idea - I think LG should be as dedicated to keeping specialist stores as much as the big chains. I can't make any promises just yet but I will be strongly recommending it - I'll even borrow some quotes from your post to press the point, if that's OK for you.

LG Blog, you have just restored my faith, as I was really to believe that you were shying away from awkward questions.

As to borrowing quotes from us all re LG using specialists stores, great, and I look forward to hearing of your success.

Cheers,

Martin.

[Neil Davidson]

This is an interesting thread and credit due to LG for having a staff dedicated to keeping up with the chatter online.

There is one point though that I can never see happening - LG in specialist retail stores.

This is certainly not a comment on LG but more an observation on the market in general. Price erosion in the flat panel market means there is now little point in holding models in stock for a specialist retailer. Even on Pioneer panels many specialists can make £50 profit at best on the sale which vanishes with the first support call from the client.

In particular the recent price cutting by Currys has made it even more difficult to justify flat panels in a store. It is no joke to say that there is lot more profit in the HDMI cable and extended warrenty than in the TV!

So good luck on the specialist channel but for my money, it would be wasted effort.

[wess74]

Originally Posted by LG Blog

Hi everybody,

I'm sorry I missed out on the replies to this thread since my last one - last week was very busy and with one of us off sick (there are only two of us working here on AVForums so when one's off the other's workload is doubled). I logged on several times last week to look at new questions & answer some old ones, but missed the updates to this thread.

wess74 - I'm sorry to hear your 42PG6000 suffered from IR after just one day, that shouldn't be happening at all in such a short space of time and I suspect it's an extreme aberration rather than a typical experience.

That said it is clear you're not the only one who has suffered from IR problems on the PG6000. I read through the thread & have collated the various contributions - specifically ones from wess74 and bossc@, including the screencaps provided.

I've forwarded them on to the relevant people. However there are various departments - customer service, product design, marketing etc. - who are involved with this, and so the proceedings can take some time - an age compared to how a forum moves, and I can appreciate the frustration you may have - we try to be quick as possible but we're never going to match the speed of conversation here, which is like the speed of light in comparison.

As of right now (Monday 1ish) I'm still waiting a reply from the relevant person but it is in hand I assure you.

As for pulling my finger out - duly noted and I promise to be more responsive in future.

Thanks once again for taking the time over this,

Chris

Thanks for your reply Chris,

I really hope you guys can get a grip of this as i think your on the brink of something very special!

Just remember, BLACK LEVEL & IR, BLACK LEVEL & IR and, oh...yes i almost forgot BLACK LEVEL & IR.

All the best

[wess74]

LGBlog,

I personally think you would be wise to contact vipergrm about his IR issues as this poor guy is now on his second tv already and doesn't seem to be getting anywhere with his dealer.

P.S Read the PG6000 thread!!!!! All the info you'll ever need

All the best

[Barzo]

Originally Posted by mjcairney

As to borrowing quotes from us all re LG using specialists stores, great, and I look forward to hearing of your success.
.

Ditto. Best of luck.

[mjcairney]

Originally Posted by Neil Davidson

Even on Pioneer panels many specialists can make £50 profit at best on the sale which vanishes with the first support call from the client.

Are you honestly saying that dealers are only making a 2% profit on something like a Pioneer PDP-LX5090 selling around £2,500 as, to my mind anyway, no one can run a successful business on that type of margin?

Cheers,

Martin.

[LG UK]

Hi guys - thanks for all your replies & your understanding.

Neil - economics are obviously a very important factor in that and I'll be bearing it in mind.

wess74 - Still waiting on a reply but yes you're right, I'll let vipergrm know.

[vipergrm]

Originally Posted by LG Blog

Hi guys - thanks for all your replies & your understanding.

Neil - economics are obviously a very important factor in that and I'll be bearing it in mind.

wess74 - Still waiting on a reply but yes you're right, I'll let vipergrm know.

Thanks LG Blog,

I look forward to some info on how I should approach the dealer. Up til now they have done very little to help, if anything.

[mjcairney]

Originally Posted by vipergrm

Thanks LG Blog,

I look forward to some info on how I should approach the dealer. Up til now they have done very little to help, if anything.

vipergrm, I really hope you're now on your way to getting your problem sorted out once and for all.

Cheers,

Martin.

[LG UK]

Sorry been out all day - just got back in. No word from the guys yet, but we'll let you know after the weekend if there's an update.

Chris

[mjcairney]

Originally Posted by LG Blog

Sorry been out all day - just got back in. No word from the guys yet, but we'll let you know after the weekend if there's an update.

Chris

Chris, the fact that you're keeping us updated is good, and let's us know that you're on the case - thank you.

Cheers,

Martin.

[vipergrm]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for getting back. I appreciate all you can do is pass on the message and wait for an update. Unfortunately my patience has now completely ran out. LG will not admit to this problem and the repair centre told me that they cannot find a fault (which I find extremely difficult to believe). They said that they can only repair it to 'manufacturer's specifications'. This more or less tells me that the service centre is very aware of this problem but does not want to admit it as LG have probably told them there's nothing that can be done about it.

I will contact LG on Monday now to pursue a refund. My set has been away for a week now and they are still telling me they can't see this problem. I am refusing to accept the set back as it is still not fixed. You are so close to having a quite unbelievable set, yet it has this one major flaw. This is something LG need to work on. In this day and age on how plasma and LCDs have evolved I find this impossible to put up with.

Good luck to all who decide to keep it. Thanks for your assistance folks.

[db2332]

Hi to LG Blog.
In a local Electrical Retailers this morning asking about the 42PG6000 and according to the assistant who even showed me his terminal screen this Plasma is being discontinued. Is this the case and will there be a replacement set. Hopefully as good looking but without the seamingly problematical issues affecting some members of this forum.
Cheers

[mjcairney]

Chris/Helen,

Hi, it's been a while since this thread was updated and I find myself still wondering as to how LG intend to market their new PG7000 range - will it be via Currys, Dixons et al, or do you intend to utilise specialist AV Dealers?

Cheers,

Martin.